Need Advice On Loading 22cal Bullets in 30cal Cases Using Sabots

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*Kemosabe*

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I have a lot of 55gr FMJ bullets that I would like to load into an M1 Carbine case using a sabot.

Has anyone done this or into any other .30 caliber case? This is new territory for me and I could use some direction… thanks!
 
You will be farther ahead by buying a mold for the 30 carbine and casting your own.

The .224 bullets out of a 30 caliber barrel are iffy at best. A nice idea that in the real world does not work.
 
I did that with a 30-06 and 308 and the best at 20 YDS was minute of double barn door. NOT worth the trouble IMHO. Sell/trade the bullets for something that will work in the carbine and be happy.:)
 
I've still got some of the old 30-06 "accelerators" around here somewhere. Cool idea that didn't work in my guns well enough to to pay for the novelty.
 
You can get 'em to function just fine, but unless you've got a much faster than standard twist barrel, they'll never stabilize.

I even tried using 40 grain bullets meant for the .22 Hornet and they hit sideways at 25 yards.

I'll have to check my notes, I think the velocity was close to 2900 fps but the 1/18" twist wouldn't even stabilize the short round nose 40 grain, let alone a boattail 55 grain.

If you'd like to shoot me a PM, I'll give you my data, but I gave up on the idea years ago.
 
rcmodel - thanks for all those links. I was able to get some insight into using sabots and the necessary loading data.

jaguarxk120 - FROGO207 - bobinoregon - I had no idea that accuracy was so poor, but I still want to experiment with it. The links that rc provided had specials for 100 sabots and a setter for around $20, so for me it’s worth giving it a shot for the experience… I’ve blown $20 on stuff that was a lot more worthless!

Swampman -I forgot about the twist rate... thanks for the heads up. I just wanted to play with sabots and I don't intend to go to the expense of getting special twist-rate barrels.
 
Mind the twist rate, and use the weight of 22 bullet in the sabot that will work in your rifle barrel.
Clean the barrel really well. Check to see if you have any throat erosion , if you do you may not get much for accuracy.
You'll also need to flare the case mouth so as to not shave the sabot, don't crimp, and you may want to experiment with various seating depths.
Also don't try to push those at the maximum velocity. I found that keeping the velocity in the lower end of what's possible helped the accuracy.
Don't expect the things to turn your gun into a 22 benchrest gun. If you get it all to work out it will make a 2moa fun project.
 
I forgot to mention this in my first post, but if you're using a chronograph (and you really should for safety).
MAKE SURE YOU COVER ANY CHRONOGRAPH PARTS THAT COULD POSSIBLY TAKE A SABOT HIT!

It's a really expensive lesson to learn the hard way... :cuss:
 
Advice: push the .22 bullets HARD into the sabot. Really, really, hard, so they fully seat. You might even want to rig up your press so you can get some mechanical advantage. That's number one. Finger tight don't cut it. They look like they're in there, but they're not. At least not with the .223/.308 sabots I had a few years (decade) back. I used a muzzle loader bullet starter and a hammer to seat mine. There was a noticeable improvement in the groups.
 
Kernel -"Advice: push the .22 bullets HARD into the sabot. Really, really, hard, so they fully seat. You might even want to rig up your press so you can get some mechanical advantage. That's number one. Finger tight don't cut it. They look like they're in there, but they're not. At least not with the .223/.308 sabots I had a few years (decade) back. I used a muzzle loader bullet starter and a hammer to seat mine. There was a noticeable improvement in the groups."

This kind of info can only come from experience. Thanks for taking the time to share it.
 
One other thing about shooting the sabot bullets.

Go find a barn, shoot inside with doors closed, that way you will assured of hitting something.
 
Advice: After you shoot a sabot load, go forward and find the sabot. It will be on the ground somewhere between 20 and 50 feet along the axis of fire. Study these spent sabots.

What do they look like? You want a perfect flower shape, with the petals opened symmetrically. If they're blown apart - the load is to hot. Back it off, or switch powders. If one side looks pristine, but the other side is smashed up - it might mean the sabot is canting as it leaves the barrel and the muzzle blast is hitting the sabot side-on. Is there a round impression on the sabot - indicating the bullet is colliding with the sabot after they separate.

Collect and study the spent sabots. They can tell you a lot.
 
Don McDowell - "You'll also need to flare the case mouth..."

One of the links that rc posted had a case mouth flaring die for $14.95. Is that what I need or have you found a simpler way to do it?


Kernel - "Collect and study the spent sabots. They can tell you a lot."

Good to know that you can diagnose some of the problems. Sure beats spittin' and cussin'... thanks!
 
I tried the Remington accelerators in my M1 rifle and they were freaky accurate. So I went and bought all they had. Then I tried them on ground squirrels in the cow pasture. WOW! Red mist!:D Hardly needed a few clicks of elevation. Shot like a stretched string. Not so good in any other rifle. Could hardly hit the barn from the inside.:confused: Ran out of Accelerators and so worked up a 130 gr load that shot steller and never looked back as I could never find anymore of that ammo. Warning if you reload sabots though. I had a friend who was a avid reloader, and he thought it wise to load some of these. He shot it in a muzzle braked rifle..... and blew the brake off! :eek: Tried to warn him. Good Luck!
 
Originally posted by: *Kemosabe*
Swampman - Yes, I have a chrono and I would have used it!
Click to expand...

By all means USE the chronograph, just make sure that you protect any exposed, vulnerable portions from sabot hits. On my old Shooting Chrony, the readout screen was directly below the bullets line of flight, since it had a small "ledge" in front of and below it, I used to place a full box of Winchester .40 S&W on the ledge so that any sabot strikes would hit the cardboard, then the Styrofoam, then the bullet tips. I never had a sabot actually fully penetrate the cardboard and the "system" worked very well...right up until the time I forgot to put the box in position before a shot and launched a 5.7 grain J&D sabot from a CZ-52 going 2550 fps+ right into the readout screen. :(
 
@ Don McDowell - I'd probably get more utility with that Lee die than the flaring tool, so that's the way I'm going to go. Thanks for the tip!

@ 345 DeSoto - Ever "SLAP" a squirrel in Somalia? :D
BTW, thanks for your service from an "In-Country" (69-71) Marine.

@ M1...Hunter - When the Rem. Acceleators first came out (iirc - early 70s?) I wanted to try them, but my only .30 cal. rifle was a .300 WinMag and Rem. didn't make them in this caliber. Funny, around 40 years later I now have that opportunity... whodathunkit!

@ Swampman - I have a 25 year old PACT chrono that has the screens remote from the unit. I built a screen holder out of 2x4s that would deinitely protect them from a sabot.

Unfortunately that system didn't work with my friend's (?) .45ACP. After that incident all guns had to be on a firm rest or it's a no-go... without exception.
 
M1GRANDDEERHUNTER: Did you get full function in your rifle with the sabots?

I fooled around with the idea in my CZ52 pistol and never could get the thing to reliably function....even with some really scary load workups....accuracy tho, was showing real potential. Absolutely none of the published loads would work in my gun and I have yet to read anything from anyone on the matter that reported good success.

Far as gas operation tho, I guess the stuff will work.......guess I'll have to dig out my '55 Springfield and give my remaining batch of 'em a try.
 
Hey Dogrunner. Yes, I had full and vigorous ejection and feeding. Cases landed 2 to 3 oclock about 5 feet away. It was unusually accurate too. I have no idea what they loaded for powder tho. Probably a medium to slow burner my guess is. Im sure your M1 will work, but I have no Idea what load you would start with. Another thing I remember was recoil was mild, not wild. :0 Hope that helps.
 
Howdy Kemosabe, .300 Winny? WOW! :D Pure distilled speed, I wonder what kind of velocity you'll get. You need to post your results when you get a chance to try it. IF I remember right.... I think 4000 + fps with whatever magic barrel length was involved. Prob 26 ". for 3006 Springfield. I honestly thought that was COOKING!!! :D

PS About loading for the .30 carbine, I didnt mention it in my original post because I didnt remember, but the same guy who blew his brake off, tried it in the 30 carbine, I guess it didnt function well. fwiw.
 
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@ M1...Hunter - I collected enough .30cal rifles over the years to keep me busy with those sabots. I'm goiing to start with the M-1 Carbine and try that same load in my IAI pistol. Down the road... .308, 30-06, 300WM and 300RUM. It'l be a spring-summer project.

Spin stabilization is probably going to be the deal breaker on accuracy, so I'll research the required spin rates for available bullets and go from there.

@ all other posters - Thank you very much for your input; I learned a lot from you..... Sabe
 
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