Need constructive criticism on a BOB

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My only Q is what happened to the guns? Shouldn't there be at least 1 firearm and some ammo? At least some ammo. I don't have a BOB. I do however carry a few things in my truck. Sleeping bag, tight rolled fleece blankets, some powerbar type things and some kind of drink other then water like powerade or gatorade or even pedialyte. They have far more nutrients then water. Bad side is they have to be replaced more often. Although I do keep water in there as well. I've always got some spare ammo in the truck and I've always got my gun on me and it takes me less then 30 seconds to throw my rifle and shotgun into the case and get it into the truck. 5 Minutes for everything else. I know because I've timed it. I still have a 10 minute rule though, and I have priorities set. These things go first. Anything not in the truck in 10 minutes stays. I also carry a toolbox in the truck with a bunch of stuff suitable for survival. Clothes I don't haev much of a selection. It's all in the same place. I grab a garbage bag, and it only takes about a minute to get my entire wardrobe into the bag. I can also wash my entire wardrobe in a load and a half.

Rev. Michael
 
- 1 HK .40 USP w/ 10 full, 13-round magazines
It's already on the list, with a lot more ammo than he needs given the goal he's laid out throughout the thread.
 
One thing I've been thinking about more is not just the BOB, but a "pre-BOB": a sack of stuff that you won't carry, but want to get you on your way if you have a few minutes to transition:
- A complete change of non-cotton clothes. My "business casual" daily outfits are not suitable for hiking 100 miles. Get changed in a few minutes, and you won't have to rely entirely on the set in the BOB.
- Extra food & water. Chug a couple bottles of water and chow some granola bars as you get moving, and you've extended the supplies on your back by at least half a day.
- Weather-suitable gear. You'll have an idea what the next few day's weather will be, may want particular gear and not take the rest.
- Misc. other gear which you'll want to start off the trip but expect to consume or jettison early.
The idea is to preserve the BOB's contents for further down the line, using that valuable space for longer-term storage. Rarely would you have to grab-and-run in a matter of seconds; I'd expect at least a few minutes to prep without diving into the BOB.
 
This is probably off-topic here so I won't post my thoughts at this point, I'll PM them to the OP.

You guys are gonna make Jeff White go crazy. :(


Good discussion though.
 
HSO,
Man, I'm gonna do it! But I'm goin' the whole distance with the pack loaded out all the way . . . handgun and all (minus a few magazines). I'm gonna do it at night, too. It'll be a hoot, especially seein' as what kind of neighborhoods I'm gonna have to walk/run through for the first 10 miles! Hadn't been a lone white boy in them parts for some time I bet (except for police officers, fire fighters, and EMTs).

SRM
 
Don't be a dumbass.

Trial runs are done under safe conditions so that when you have to deal with the danger you are not still shaking out your kit.

Load it with bags of flour or water and make the test in daylight when it's safest. If it's for **** then you can regroup safely.

I'm of the opinion that you're more fascinated with the crap in the bag than paring it down so that you can move fast and get to your wife and kid. That's fine for now, when it doesn't matter, but when you gotta get there don't just ditch the whole boat anchor and leave yourself with a bunch of ammo and a dozen different flavors of sanitizer. Try to remember what the "light and fast" crowd here have been repeating to you.

If you hump the whole thing all 30 miles home then let us know and I'll change MY sig to dumbass.
 
HSO,
Man, I'm laughing right now picturing the look that went along with the thought of; "What an idiot, this guy is!" Of course, when I said I was gonna make this trial run all loaded out, I meant after I made the changes that have heretofore been suggested. For instance, I'm not running/walking 30 miles (10 of it through rough, all-black neighborhoods) in cotton 5.11s and with some $1500 in fancy-schmancy survival 'toys' on my back.

But I am gonna do this! After all, it'll be that much more dangerous if and when the day comes that I have no choice but to do it. I just have to keep my eyes open for packs of 2 or more YBMs on the night I decide to go!

I'm tellin' ya, HSO, it's gonna be fun!!!

SRM
 
Crap! One of the police officers who works a second job here at the hospital just stopped by during his rounds. I told him about my plan. And he said; "If we catch you down in those neighborhoods trying to pull off a stunt like that, we'll arrest you for criminal mischief!"

Hmmm! I'll have to try for my ex-wife's house. It's due west of town. No Indian country between here and there!

SRM
 
You may want to add a tube of superglue to your med kit for a fast way to fix up cuts that would otherwise need stitching.

HSO is right. Do your trial run in safer conditions because something will go wrong or your loadout wil be more than you anticipated. etc.
Try walking on a track with your BOB loaded for the proper weight.

Oh, and if the $ hit the fan, some tacticool guy in supercommando pants carrying a supercommando ruck filled with what I would assume to be ninja survival stuff would be one of my most sought after targets of opportunity (I know. Oxymoron...:p ) were I the unprepared type. I'm just saying...
I walk and hike a lot with my Kelty internal frame medium sized pack loaded with a 45# sandbag.
I think a lot of guys don't give any attention to the idea that they're walking targets with all that tactical stuff brimming from a tactical looking bag.
FWIW, you've got a good setup. It just needs some tweaking, which is why you're here.:D
 
Agree, The walk home bag I keep in my truck is a plain Camelback without the tactical look. I leave it in the truck empty and if I need to walk I'll draw from the stuff I keep in the truck and take only what is needed for those conditions. I'll probably take more water than anything.

Knowing now that you have a section of badlands between your home and work, I'll reiterate the bicycle recommendation. Scout out different routes and take one around the badlands rather than a direct path. It may be a lot longer, but a bike will still get you home faster. It will also allow you to carry more stuff if you feel the need.
 
Tell the cop he should go phuk himself for threatening your effort to test Darwin's theory.;)

That does bring up a salient point. Why plot a route through a known hazard? It certainly won't be less hazardous if people are desperate. I'd advise plotting a safer route, around, over, under, but safer. It it adds 5 miles to your trip it's nothing compared to how much slower you'd go with a shank in the ribs.


Run an 8 hr sim and then a full 3 day sim. "Camp" in hotels with just your supplies for the 3 day sim.
 
Travel light and carry a ratty-looking bag. 25-30 lbs is probably more like it. Should you ever have to move fast, 50 lbs is too much. Tactical pants? I say try to look like less of a target.
 
Here's what I carry on the trail -- I can survive for two weeks on around 20 libs.

Backpacking is a minimalist's sport. Every ounce you take with you has to be carried up and down mountains, until even the lightest pack become burdensome. Most backpackers agree it is better to leave luxuries home than to carry them. What follows is a discussion of gear aimed at minimum weights.

Packs

Most packs are waaay too big and waaay too heavy, even empty. You should to hold your total load below 20 pounds -- and that's hard to do if the pack weights a full seven pounds!

Nevertheless, you need a pack with a frame and a waistbelt. The waistbelt transfers weight to your hips (which were designed for carrying loads), and off your shoulders (which were not.) In order to do that, the pack needs a frame, too.

Frames come in two kinds, external (usually a ladder-like affair of aluminum) or internal (usually foam reinforced with a strip or two of bendable aluminum.) External pockets are nice and help your organize your load, but too many "nice to have" features add weight. Small packs encourage you to hold your load down. Large packs seem to demand you add more and more until they're full.

You can buy a canteen, or hook a plastic soft drink bottle to your belt, or carry it in your pack or pocket.

Remember also you'll need gear straps -- to hold your sleeping bag and closed cell foam pad to your pack.

You also need a walking stick. I like one 6 feet long or even a bit more -- when wading creeks, crossing on log bridges and so on, a long stick is a great advantage. I keep my eyes open for stands of bamboo and cut one just right to fill the hand, and put a crutch tip on each end.

Footgear

Boots vary from running shoes to heavy leather affairs. If you're buying boots, buy them at least a size too large, so you can wear two pairs of thick socks. Wal Mart hunting socks are the best I've found -- and I've tried everything, including expen$ive Norwegian Ragg socks. You should carry at least spare three pairs in a sealed plastic bag. You may wish to carry 'liner socks' -- ordinary smooth finish dress socks to wear under your thick socks. DO NOT WEAR COTTON SOCKS!

Clothing

Shorts are better than long pants (except in very cold weather.) Lift you knee as high as you can and feel the pull of your trouser leg -- it robs energy from every step as you toil your way uphill. In wet conditions, the lower pant legs get soaked, also robbing you of energy.

Shirtsleeves should be capable of being rolled way up. An unlined, cheap jacket makes a very good windbreaker. A day or so on the trail and you will find even at fairly cool temperatures it will be enough. For raingear, a cheap pocket-sized plastic rain jacket (Wal Mart) will do. Add a hat and a couple of bandanas and that's all you need.

Cook kit

I like as light a cook kit as I can get. I make "anti-gravity stoves" out of Sam's Choice Diet Cola cans (Diet, so the food won't be fattening.) A nice steel or aluminum can serves as a cook pot, and a strip cut from two cans and taped together makes a great windscreen. Add a cup, plastic bowl, spoon, pot lifter pot scrubber and an "anti-government" lighter, and it all makes one small package. You'll need a pint of denatured alcohol for the stove. Buy it in any paint store.


Sleeping and shelter

I use a big poncho I made ("Poncho Villa") which is 7X9 feet with a hood in the middle. It also serves as a tarp tent. Any lightweight tarp about this size will do. Just find a level spot between two trees some 12 to 24 feet apart. Stretch a cord between them (with the foot end lower than the head and the wind coming from the foot end, if possible.) Drape the poncho or tarp over it and secure it with loops stuck through the grommets and secured with small sticks. Stake it out with short pieces of cord and light-weight aluminum tent stakes.

You need a groundsheet to keep your sleeping bag from contact with the ground. A sheet of plastic 6 or 7 feet long and 2 to 3 feet wide is fine. Put a closed cell foam pad on it (Wal Mart) to insulate you from the ground. You don't need the heaviest, warmest sleeping bag you can find. Get one that is small and light if you're buying one new.

First aid and sanitation

This is mostly common sense articles -- toothpaste, brush, soap, bandaids, bug repellent, water purifiers and so on. You definitely need toilet paper, in a plastic ziplock bag.


Food

Freeze dried meals are the standard. One meal can be split in two -- half at noon and half at night. You just boil water and add to the mix, that's all there is to it. As an alternative, I also like a bag of instant rice. Add some teriyaki jerky and a dash of hot sauce, pour on the boiling water and wait a few minutes. For breakfast, I like instant oatmeal -- two or three packets. A few packets of instant cocoa are also welcome.

Navigation

Map and compass are the prime tools, but a GPS is also helpful. At least one member of the party should have map and compass and be a proficient navigator. I normally use a small compass on my wrist watch, and carry a computer print-out of the appropriate USGS maps.

Firearms

Guns are for self-protection and foraging. For self-protection, the threat is usually adequate. Let them see your gun, and they will usually leave you alone. For foraging, you will kill a lot of small game, and rarely kill a large animal. I prefer a .22 pistol and about 50 rounds of ammo, max.

Miscellaneous

You want to keep stuff dry. Ziplock plastic bags are great for everything from rice to socks. Cheap (light) trash bags make good liners for your sleeping bag's stuff bag. Take care of your sleeping bag and it will take care of you.

Don't forget to bring a small flashlight with extra batteries and a good pocket knife.
 
Guys (especially HSO),
Remember when I told you fellas that I had walked all day with this Camelback BFM loaded out pretty much the way it is now. Well, on all those occassions it was up at Lake Tahoe during the winter months, hand in hand with my hot little wife and two close friends of ours who are police officers in San Jose, CA. Somehow, it just won't be the same walking the 35 miles from downtown Houston to my ex-wife's home in Richmond, by myself, and in typical spring weather. Comparatively speaking, it's gonna SUCK.

Thank you all for your counsel, advice, and even concern. I promise you, none of it shall have been in vain. I have even downloaded some of the posts herein for the purposes of discussions with my family and friends. Now, shall we put this thread to bed before Jeff White opens up a can of whoop-ass on us?

SRM
 
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This topic is new to me and I've been reading this thread with great interest. Can someone elaborate on the "cotton kills" issue. Almost everything I wear on a daily basis is cotton. What are the alternatives and why? Would you really take the time to change socks and underwear when bugging out? Thanks
 
"cotton kills" comes from the fact that cotton wets easily, doesn't wick and doesn't dry quickly. It can contribute to hypothermia in cool conditions. It stays damp and can lead to chafing and rash in the armpits and crotch in hot conditions, both of which make moving quickly with a pack more of a challenge.

Changing socks and underwear will reduce the potential for rash and blisters which can make the difference between walking 2 miles in a day or 10.

Try walking 10 miles in various weather conditions wearing the clothing you normally wear. Then try doing it for 3 days in a row. Tell us how you do.
 
It actually depends on the climate. Here in Southern Arizona, cotton is king. In Flagstaff (Northern Arizona), it can kill you.
 
I looked into this a while back and my recemmendation would be to go to REI or similar online shop and look around. In pants I looked at Supplex (a nylon weave) which is very comfortable but dries quickly. There are lots of good choices in under garments Ex-Officio, UnderArmor et al. 5.11 Nylon is another choice IMO. They're very similar to the 511 cotton canvas pants that everybody loves, but they're made from a very comfortable nylon.

I went for a short walk on a logging road in the north Cascades -- beautiful day. I didn't take a jacket or anything because it was nice. Half way up it started raining and I got soaked. I was wearing cotton canvas 5:11's and a nylon Columbia shirt. It stopped raining and the shirt just air dried while I was wearing it. The cotton pants stayed wet.

I like cotton too for just casual wear when it doesn't count, but I keep a set of nylon clothes in the back of my truck in case my requirements suddenly change.
 
What SHOULD I wear? I'm addmitantly ignorant on the subject. Tell me what and why. Thanks

It depends on the climate and time of year. If you read my post, I recommend:

Boots -- you can get either those designed like running shoes, or the more traditional all-leather with stitch-down (welted) soles. The former are lighter, the latter can be resoled. Goretex lining is a very good idea if you can afford it.

Socks -- the thick socks Wal Mart sells as hunting socks are as good as any I've tried.

Shorts -- best in most climates and weather. Get them loose.

Shirt -- long sleeve, and big enough so you can roll the sleeves up.

Hat.

Bandannas (can be used for many things -- including a havelock for your hat.)

Poncho -- I made mine 7X9 feet and it doubles as a tarp tent.

Pocket-sized rain gear (a couple of bucks from Wal Mart.)

Cheap, unlined nylon windbreaker.
 
Summer wear has been pretty well covered here. I would add that good fitting quality boots are worth their weight in gold. And speaking of weight, for summer use go light. An extra half pound on the feet will drain you faster on the move than many pounds in a properly balanced load on the back.

Here is my cold winter input from another thread:

First recommendation is a base clothing layer of silk long johns; available at good sport chain stores. They weigh almost nothing, but add a degree of insulation all out of proportion to their bulk. Regular cotton long johns can be worn over silks if desired.

I like an intermediate layer of 100% cotton flannel; pants and a collared shirt (buttoned up to the neck, the collar can be turned up to cover the neck).

A quality pure wool sweater can be added as an intermediate layer depending on your state of metabolism.

Quality pure wool jacket and pants. I have a number of jackets; Harris tweed etc, and a particularly good pair of vintage brown wool Australian Army pants. Hold your pants up with (depending on what side of the Atlantic you went to school) suspenders or braces in place of a belt. A belt restricts movement, blood flow, digestion etc - you'll be far more comfortable without one.

Outer shell; wax cotton jacket is good if the freeze turns to rain unexpectedly. Otherwise I like a windproof cotton shell. Genuine Ventile cotton is excellent if you can afford it. Likewise overpants if desired; I have a pair of lightly insulated British Army overpants made of cotton or polycotton with Goretex interlining.

I like these combinations because if things warm up considerably into the day the outer items/layers can be shed one at a time.

Pointer: know your size and meaurements in general, feet and inches, metric and anything else - and browse the evilBay. I have aquired a number of very upmarket, very high-dollar clothing items, some new with tags, for a fraction of their retail price.

Surplus Russian military hats - the ones with the thick lining and wraparound flap are hitting the market in great numbers at this time. I have an old East German Army version that has served well for about 15 years but I am adding a couple of the new Russian ones. These hats are very warm and versatile; I've used mine in temperatures as low as minus 60 F.

Pointer: Scour the 'Bay, surf the web, keywords: Ushanka Russian hat. They are going for $10 to $25. Expect to pay alot for shipping if you buy from a seller in Russia because of their export permit costs etc. But they are well worth the money.

Best gloves or mitts are soft wool. Some of the best I have used are the traditional Dachsteins made in Austria. Although popular for winter mountainering they are suited to any cold environment. For shooting you can modify them (or have someone else) by cutting a longitudal slit in the right place for the trigger finger. The slit can be lightly buttonhole stitched to stop it fraying if desired. A lihter pair of gloves can be worn inside mitts, and of course additionally silk gloves can be worn as excellent liners.

The right socks are very important. I like quality wool, or brands like Thorlo of various materials and weights. Sometimes a lighter weight pair inside a heavyweight pair. Silk liners add comfort and warmth.

Best boots for lounging around in cold weather are felt-lined like Sorel brand etc. Make sure you buy them matched to the socks, number of sock layers, you will wear in them; and not too small. If you habitually wear your boots laced up very snug for walking or climbing, loosen them when you settle down to allow your blood to circulate more freely.

A couple of other pointers offhand; a closed-cell foam pad to sit on and lean against. In other words cover your seat or chair. It will stop the heat rushing out through the compressed clothing under your backside and back.

A versatile combination is a down parka and a child's sleeping bag. The parka can be worn - as an extreme cold weather jacket of course. Worn in combination with a child's sleeping back up to the waist one can have a pretty warm bivouac. When getting up for those middle of the night chores (like when nature calls) the jacket is already on, and one can don boots, or they can be worn loosely tied or untied in the bag.
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