Need help from Kali people

[50 Freak]

So I'm posting this question for a friend:

Friend of a Friend just got busted for having a concealed weapon in his car (under the seat) on the way to Vegas from Kali. Story goes something like this: Friend of a Friend (from now on referred to "FF") was involved in some kind of road race/rage thing on the I-15. FF calls the Chippers to help him because the other guy in the car is following him and driving recklessly. No one responds for 20 something minutes. FF getting a little nervous after no Chippers shows up so allows the other guys car to pull up next to him and then FF motions something to the extent "I have a gun"with his hands but no time shows his gun. The other guy calls 911 and 3 minutes later the Chippers pull over FF. Chippers report that the other guy said FF was waiving a Stainless/Chrome gun. Chippers search car and find a black pistol under the seat. FF is now out on Bail.

Now it starts getting complicated. FF is a Nevada resident, incident happened in Kali. Gun is registered (I think) to one of FF's LEO's friends (who is a Swat guy in Kali). FF owns two business and has a spotless record. I know in Kali, there is a provision that if your caught with a loaded gun, the first offense will be dismissed as a misdemeanor (provided that gun was legal and registered, and that this is your first offense and you are no way affiliated to any gangs).

FF doesn't want a Felony conviction as it will really screw up his life. The DA is offering a felony conviction and 90 days. Do you think there is anyway to get this down to misdemeanor? and if so anyone have a reference to a good gun friendly attorney in the LA area? I'll pass the info on. Thanks

 

[rayra]

FF is in deep trouble.
In his particular set of circumstances, he was wrong to get involved or escalate what was happening.

Thre are a few (NRA?) recommended attorneys in the greater L.A. region, but all are expensive as hell ($5k-$10k retainer, ~$200hr billing rates).

My best advice is tell your friend to begin reading all the CA Penal Code sections involved - was he cited for 12030, 12025, or Brandishing? Circumstances of the incident could very well raise the issue to a Felony.

I would also advise him to immediately contact the CHP, and speak with the regional Custodian of Records to obtain a certified copy of his 911 telephone call - hopefully there is something in this information that will ameliorate the charges.

Since you say he is 'out on bail', I presume he's already had his preliminary hearing / arraignment? Or was he arrested at the scene?
He'll have to have everything as much in order as he can, and be prepared with an attorney to request a continuance at his initial arraignment / preliminary hearing (if that hasn't already happened), to allow additional time to prepare his case. If he has two businesses, he's unlikely to qualify for a Public Defender - and be forewarned, even if he does, he'll still have to do 90% of the legwork - do NOT rely on the PubDef to do anything but dance the dance in court.

He better be prepared to respond to Prosecution noise about transporting a firearm across state lines. And his PD friend is in for a world of hurt for loaning him the gun he was carrying illegally.

I'd also tell him to learn as much as he can about Alternative Sentencing, and learn as much as he can about the court and judge where he has to appear. It would be well worth paying a consultation fee to a local lawyer that routinely practices in that court, to learn all you can.

Bottom line, your friend's invovlement in a behaviour that is the scourge of tht stretch of highway, with a weapon-not-his-own, during interstate travel - he is in very real trouble. Tell him to polish the hell out of his halo, and stack up as much favorable information on himself as he can...

The illegal presence of the presumably loaded gun, and the gun not being his - he really is screwed, VERY unlikely to dodge the Felony.

btw, here in Kalifornistan - a loaded magazine / clip, in the same location, container, part of the car as the weapon is considered 'a loaded weapon'. Handgun in a vehicle must be transported in a locked container, not to be the glove compartment or center console, and in plain view in the passenger compartment, OR simply locked in the trunk (if the trunk is inaccessible from the passenger compartment.


I am NOT a lawyer. The above advice is worth exactly what you paid for it. Tell 'FF' to get a lawyer as fast as he can. He should have had one before his arraignment.

 

[uglymofo]

Rayra's given some good advice with

I am NOT a lawyer. The above advice is worth exactly what you paid for it. Tell 'FF' to get a lawyer as fast as he can. He should have had one before his arraignment.

That's not to slam his observations nor his other advice. This is the PRK, and your FF's "manure" is deep. No second chances here with the gun laws.

My personal opinion is, your FF's not very bright, but like the quote goes, "if God didn't want them sheared, He would not have made them sheep."

 

[Jim March]

The FF needs a GOOD LAWYER. Period. This has got to be plea-bargained down to a misdemeanor illegal carry bust; so long as that happens, under Calif law it is specifically NOT a crime that triggers Federal gun-rights disability.

Basically, a lawyer can threaten to raise enough hell over the 911 logs that it'll cause embarassment.

Another thing...I heard of a case of this EXACT same scenario, and not that far from there. Kern County. Almost exactly the same sequence of events, and again, CHP involved.

Criminals and cops are allies in this state.

 

[rayra]

Speaking of Loss of Gun Rights - Here in CA, the CA DoJ, the Atty General also have a 'List' - as part of his criminal punishment for a wepons offense, should it come to pass, he can be added to this list and be prevented from legally owning a firearm in this state - not a problem per se as your friend is a NV resident, but IIRC this also precludes his borrowing, shooting, touching a firearm in this state.

 

[Standing Wolf]

I don't still live in the People's Republic of California, and plan never to revisit the place, but do remember this: carrying a concealed firearm that has been registered is a gross misdemeanor, whereas carrying one that's not registered is a felony. The gross misdemeanor can and usually does prevent one from buying additional firearms for ten years.

All that saidâ„¢, it's not unheard of for people who are arrested for carrying concealed unregistered firearms to plea their way down to ordinary misdemeanors, lose firearms, pay fines, and move the @#$%^&! out of the P.R.C. Your friend needs an aggressive lawyer with lots of criminal experience; if it need be said, he's going to need a lot of money, too.

 

[El Rojo]

I was just reading PC 12025 and for the life of me I couldn't figure out if that was a felony or a misdemeanor. I saw where if he was an felon, a street gang member, or had stolen the pistol it would be a felony, but it doesn't say when it isn't specifically a misdemeanor. As long as FF had permission to possess the firearm, he shouldn't get into anymore trouble for having the pistol. I am not assuming it was loaded as no one said it was.

I wouldn't want to bet 90 days of jail time or loss of my 2nd Amendment rights on the advice given on a discussion board. He needs a lawyer!!!

Interestingly enough get this!

[12025(f)]Firearms carried openly in belt holsters are not concealed
within the meaning of this section.

Should have had the gun unloaded in a belt holster!

 

[rayra]

That's not to slam his observations nor his other advice.

Heck ya - I didn't even stay in a Holiday Inn last night.


12025 is a Misdemeanor. Being a gang member, a repeat offender, or other aggravating circumstance like Brandishing, Terrorist(ic) threats, domestic violence, in the same offense-event can bump it to a Felony. If I understand it correctly.

 

[Cal4D4]

I believe there is a certain amount of discretion on the misdemeanor/felony part. If not registered it can be a felony. Is there any chance of real owner/leo getting word to prosecutor's office encouraging leniency? Alot on the line here for both. All avenues should be explored.

I believe the transport laws revolve around concealable weapon, not whether it is actually concealed.

 

[olyAR73]

This is a subject that is near and dear to my heart. Every year I fly to the Seattle area and visit family in the Washington area, and then drive to Oregon and Cali to visit family in both of those states as well.

I have permits that let me carry concealed in 30 something states, but not Oregon or Cali. I was once a Level III peace officer for a large Sheriffs Dept in central Cali and could carry anywhere in the state. I use weapons and train others to use weapons on a daily basis. Ive never had a brush with the law outside of my lead foot. This is one of those situations where I always decide whats best for me and my family, not the gov. of Oregon or California.

I really feel for your friend. It's a B.S. law imposed by a well defended class of politicians who would never have to consider taking on the responsibility of defending themselves or loved ones. Nor ever have the courage or fortitude if the need to do so ever presented itself.

I dont have any great legal advice for your friend except to say that I hope he gets a right thinking jury of his peers. Im almost sure with the sorry state of the over-worked justice system of Cali that the charge will be reduced. He really does need a lawyer to play poker with the DA to get the charge reduced, though. It's how the game is played.

 

[Pendragon]

I am so not a lawyer, but a few things strike me:

1. the other guy identified him as having a silver gun, but the gun was black. I am wondering if a good lawyer could not get the black gun thrown out based essentially on a lie.

The problem is - your friend made a gun motion with a finger and that may be considered a threat or even assault. Here is where the first 911 call comes in - your friend was scared, called the police, they dont show so he makes a gun motion with his hand. Is this self defense? Maybe, if the other driver was placing him in fear for his life or safety and he could noth otherwise avoid the driver.

Its clear the other driver never saw a gun, but said he did. This should go a long way towards invalidating the search and whatever they cops find.

I am guessing that the black gun may qualify as "fruit of the poison tree" - the tree being the lie of the other driver. However, this is a TOTAL guess.

On the other hand, the cops were going by what one person said and its not their fault he lied. There is a weak point in here somewhere and a good lawyer should be able to exploit it.

Get a good lawyer, get some good facts, dig your feet in like you are prepared to go all the way and then see if they won't deal it down to a misdemeanor.

Personally, I think he was pretty dumb. When you CCW on the sneak in CA, you have to do EVERYTHING possible to avoid a confrontation because if you have to use the gun, you are going to be in a big fat pickle and you better be thinking "well, this sucks, but at least I am alive". If you aint thinking that afterwards, then you didnt need the gun. Sucks to be him, but if you mess with the bull, you get the horns...

 

[Carnitas]

Again.... Not a lawyer and your friend shoudl talk to one...... But there's a legal principal...I forget the name..... That basically says you cant be prosecuted for violating a law if compliance with the law would have a overriding negative consquence.

In this case, he started out with a lawfully possesed weapon, lawful complaince would have had him stopping at the border and securing the weapon. In this case complainace would have exposed him to the road rager and effectively forced the conflict to a head. Clearly better to violate a CCW law, which results in injury or harm to know one directly, then to stop and attempt to secure a weapon while potentially under physical attack.

 

[El Rojo]

Really, the important thing is to always have a cool head, especially when carrying a firearm. Let that guy drive and act like an idiot. The FF was in a car going 60-80 MPH. That other guy was no threat that a firearm could handle. If he had pulled a gun, you hit your brakes. Really this whole thing could have been avoided had the FF just ignored him and let the other guy act an idiot.

I had this moron run a stop sign and pull out in front of me the other morning on my way to class. I gave her the look from hell, but no bird, nothing else, just a look. And that was satisfaction enough. Why not get more irrate? I carry a concealed weapon and her stupid act of pulling out in front of me and me slamming on my breaks isn't worth either of our lives. If she would have gotten upset with me and followed me, fine. I wouldn't have escalated the situation anymore. If I really began to get worried for my life, I would have called 911 and kept driving. If she pulls up next to me, I would look at her to make sure I am not about to get shot, but nothing else or more. Probably hit my breaks and let her scoot on by. She probably would have felt the victor and moved on.

I think an important concept here is to let the other guy or gal think they won. If FF would have hit his breaks on the I-15 and let that guy keep on going, it probably would have been over. The other guy would have felt victorious and I doubt he would have slowed down on his way home from the weekend in Vegas to further screw with some guy. And there is nothing wrong with letting the other guy think he won. Everyone wins in a situation where you don't have to pull your gun and shoot somebody over road rage. The best part is the other guy doesn't know his cocky stupid attitude is against someone with a CCW. Had he known that, he might not be so big and mighty. But it doesn't matter, someday he might meet an convicted felon with a bigger chip on their shoulder and he might not get off so easy.

Hindsight is 20/20. If you have a firearm, you must play it cool. Little ego battles on the freeway are not worth it. Especially when you are breaking the law to begin with.

 

[TarpleyG]

I am guessing that the black gun may qualify as "fruit of the poison tree" - the tree being the lie of the other driver. However, this is a TOTAL guess.

No way Pendragon. The guy probably consented to the search. If NOT, then MAYBE, just maybe. But, I wouldn't count on it.

50 Freak, did your FF consent to a search of his vehicle or did the chippies feel they had PC to search it based on the other 911 call? Did they perform a felony stop or a routine traffic stop? My guess is felony stop just 'cause it's Kali.

If they can establish PC based on the 911 call and did the search based on that, FF is SOL on the 4th amendment and/or fruit of the poison tree defense.

GT

 

[ysr_racer]

This guy is supposed to be good. http://www.gunlaw.com/

 

[50 Freak]

Thanks everyone,

Especially YSR, what I needed was recommendations to an atty with gun law experience. Personally I agree completely with El Rojo, before I got my CCW, I would avoid all types of situations that would have exposed me to the law. I didn't want to get into a situation that would lead to a possible search by LEO and then caught with a concealed weapon, so it was better for me to try to find other avenues of escaping a situation. The gun was the last resort, when no escape was possible. Even with my CCW now, I still think that way.


I talked to my Friend and here is the rest of the story. FF was under the impression that chp was coming to help him cause he already called them for help 20 minutes before. the dispatcher called him back on his cell and asked him if he had a gun, he said yes, then they told him what to do when chp arrived. When CHP arrived they instructed him to put his hands out the window and asked him if he had a gun in the car. He said yes and they just arrested him...

 

[Standing Wolf]

...here is the rest of the story...

I'll bet even that's not the whole rest of the story. I'd guess a good, aggressive lawyer could beat any and all charges resulting from this mess; how much that would cost, however, is another matter altogether.

 

[gunsmith]

Firearms lawyer

BRUCE COLODNY
(714) 639-6767
(909) 862-5243
http://www.gunlaw.com

 

[El Rojo]

Well that plain sucks. It pays to know the laws of the state before you go getting into trouble in that state. Man, let this be a lesson to everyone else. I feel for your friend and I am sure he is kicking himself now for this one. If it helps (which I am sure it won't), tell him many a person learned from his mistake and maybe others won't get a felony on their record because of his sacrifice.