Need ORIGINAL FIRST HAND accounts of cylinder swapping in cap and ball revolver

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You tuber C&Rsenal has a current blog 1:21.38 long on the Walker. I mention it as it traces the history and in doing so, lists the original government contract for parts and loading equipment. No mention of spare cylinders were listed in the parts. A previous show was on the Paterson.
 
There are so many books where incorrect history has crept into, I read all the time the lineage of where the falsehood started and how it spread. And even first hand accounts have their problems, as people remember wrong.

I cannot imagine swapping cylinders under stress. How many of us have seen IPSC competitions where the shooter bungles a reload, or, bungles clearing a jam? Fine motor control goes out the door, and in the mean time, what is the bad guy doing? If you were a Civil War Officer and things got so hairy that your pistol emptied, you would go for your sword, or try to find a musket from a dead man, assuming that an enemy infantry man did not bayonet you or crack your head open with a musket butt before you figured out what was going on.

this Union battery never saw the Confederates coming through the trees, they did not have time to move the guns in their direction, and the artillery unit was over run.

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Lieutenant Van Pelt was last seen with a drawn sword, who knows if he had a revolver or not. He sure did not have time to swap cylinders or reload the thing.

I wonder if the extra cylinder was supplied so if the first one cracked or burst, the owner had a spare. I have had caps fall off nipples on the gun, I have no idea how they could be reliably kept on rolling around in a pouch and bouncing around on a horse.

Future archeologists will be speculating if those spare 45ACP cylinders for single action revolvers in 45LC were there so the shooter could make a quick reload.
 
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As to the question "Is there a simpler answer...", the answer is: yes.

A person could simply ask himself why did the revolver companies include a spare cylinder with their cased guns, and/or make spare cylinders available as a special order?
Folks wouldn't buy a spare if they didn't think that they had a use for it.
There's such a thing as a retreat, where a cylinder swap is still faster than reloading fresh rounds, especially if paper cartridges aren't available.

Yes, I've read about the Pony Express, but all I found was from contemporary authors. I couldn't find direct evidence.
Can you go in more depth about the ways it is well documented? It's exactly what I'm looking for.
Are there perhaps pictures?
First hand accounts documented from primary sources (an author recording that Joe Smith who was a Pony Express when he was a kid told him they used to do so and so)?
Any direct, primary source would be helpful.
Thanks for your help.

I think that damoc provided a good lead which now the ball is in your court to try to do some of your own research.
It's okay to ask, but since you're the one that wants the info, what have you done to try to follow up on the lead?
Maybe you can search for a book about the incident, the person or about the Pony Express.
We're here to help you, and also to help guide you to help yourself.
The internet provides many avenues for research, but it also has its limits as far as providing direct proof.

If there were such a book where it was mentioned about the Pony Express riders or other XYZ persons carrying a loaded spare cylinder, and/or circumstantial or other evidence that it was used in a gunfight, then there's bound to be other issues such as the validity of references or footnotes, and where the author found the information.
There's always going to be folks who doubt whether something happened or not.
The veracity of some events are simply based on the preponderance of the evidence.
 
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The thread asks if any evidence indicates that additional cylinders were “issue” to troopers. Reading history or looking at civil war photos would indicate that many soldiers equipped them selves out of pocket so a safe bet would be many had an extra cylinder, although the apparent practice of companies issuing pistol Ammo in the form of paper cartridges would off set, IMO, any benifit of disabling a gun by removing its cylinder during a battle.
 
You would swap out cylinders rather than just draw a spare revolver? As I recall from listening to old men and reading older diaries, the average soldier was discretely throwing things away that were perceived as excess cargo. Lightening the load since they traveled everywhere by foot

Kevin
Marines have long done this (one imagines the cleverest soldiers might as well ;-) but you toss the crap that slows you down. Not the stuff that can potentially save your hide. Extra ammunition, or in their case extra revolvers, certainly fit this category.
 
A person could simply ask himself why did the revolver companies include a spare cylinder with their cased guns, and/or make spare cylinders available as a special order?
Folks wouldn't buy a spare if they didn't think that they had a use for it.
There's such a thing as a retreat, where a cylinder swap is still faster than reloading fresh rounds, especially if paper cartridges aren't available.

Companies did include spare cylinders with very few guns, cased ones particularly, and on demand, but there's no evidence whatsoever I could find that it was a widespread practice, least of all that it was standard issue for cavalry troopers.

Why would one want a spare cylinder, if not for having a preloaded cylinder to swap?

Two very simple reasons (much simpler than something like swapping preloaded cylinders with all the issues doing so implies) that have been stated for having a spare cylinder, in situations when you had time to do things like maintenance, but you weren't completely safe and therefore wanted your revolver back into action asap, which are:
1) Having a spare available if the main one had any problem (like a broken nipple or something that rendered it inoperable, like the gun being dunked in water that wetted the powder): instead of having to wait a long time for another cylinder (in case of a mechanical problem), or having an inoperable gun until you fixed the issue, like having to draw all the charges, you'd have a spare one to use while you tried to fix the inoperable one.
2) Having a cylinder ready while cleaning your gun. The cylinder is the most time consuming part to routinely clean (short of disassemblying the gun completely): one could clean the barrel and frame in very little time and reassemble the gun with the spare cylinder, having a useable firearm while he took the time to clean the other cylinder.

This said, yes, Pony Express is the single most plausible case where it made sense to have a loaded spare cylinder instead of a second gun. Everything in the pony express equipment was kept as light as possible, down to the satchel buckles... even the rider (which explains Billy Tate).

I think that damoc provided a good lead which now the ball is in your court to try to do some of your own research.
It's okay to ask, but since you're the one that wants the info, what have you done to try to follow up on the lead?
Maybe you can search for a book about the incident, the person or about the Pony Express.
We're here to help you, and also to help guide you to help yourself.
The internet provides many avenues for research, but it also has its limits as far as providing direct proof.

If there were such a book where it was mentioned about the Pony Express riders or other XYZ persons carrying a loaded spare cylinder, and/or circumstantial or other evidence that it was used in a gunfight, then there's bound to be other issues such as the validity of references or footnotes, and where the author found the information.
There's always going to be folks who doubt whether something happened or not.
The veracity of some events are simply based on the preponderance of the evidence.

There's a misunderstanding, I'm not asking you to do my research for me: I was just asking is if someone who already did it had any useful information to share. I did my homework, but unfortunately I couldn't find any primary sources (but I found a lot of other people that published articles or posts indicating the lack thereof). So, this being a forum where there's a lot of knowledgeable people, I asked if someone had any info.
For example, I found "The Pony Express: Bringing Mail to the American West (Milestones in American History)", which again is not a primary source, and it's also quite expensive (even in Kindle format), while containing a single reference that may or may not prove useful. If someone has it, Could he share what it says at page 138 on the topic of Billy Tate?
 
The thread asks if any evidence indicates that additional cylinders were “issue” to troopers. Reading history or looking at civil war photos would indicate that many soldiers equipped them selves out of pocket so a safe bet would be many had an extra cylinder, although the apparent practice of companies issuing pistol Ammo in the form of paper cartridges would off set, IMO, any benifit of disabling a gun by removing its cylinder during a battle.
Photos show soldiers with extra revolvers, though. Never seen any with extra cylinders. Nor were guns fitted with extra cylinders manufactured on a regular basis. They were a "custom order" thing and not many were made.
:thumbdown:
Remember that each cylinder had to be fitted to the specific revolver.
And every picture of a revolver with a spare cylinder had "a" spare cylinder. One. If I had a gun made with the purpose of swapping loaded cylinders, it would be reasonable to have several cylinders made, not just one.
A single spare cylinder is most likely a "just in case" spare part. Still, this is us reasoning about what would be plausible, and not primary sources... :/
 
With the Pattersons and "Wells Fargos",that have to have the cylinder removed to load it may have been common.Have seen pictures of cased Patterson with 2 cylinders.
Yep. ;) that's why I excluded the Pattersons from my question: with those it was most probably done.
About the Wells Fargos I woudln't be so sure. It was a pocket revolver, extremely compact and light, and between having to swap cylinders and having one in each pocket, I'd definitely go for the second option. ;)
And, again, no hard proof of multiple cylinders being issued that I know of.
They were anyway mostly bought by civilians who appreciated the extreme lightness and didn't foresee having to shoot more than 5 shots anyway...
They were popular in an era where having a couple of pocket guns, which meant TWO shots, was still very well impressed in everyone's memory.
You could have 10 shots in the same bulk of a couple of pocket percussion pistols of just 10 years before...
Would you feel the need for a fast reload system if today you could carry a subcompact plasma gun capable of firing 50 shots for self defense? :cool::)
 
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For example, I found "The Pony Express: Bringing Mail to the American West (Milestones in American History)", which again is not a primary source, and it's also quite expensive (even in Kindle format), while containing a single reference that may or may not prove useful. If someone has it, Could he share what it says at page 138 on the topic of Billy Tate?

I found that's a textbook that's available used for as little as $3.95 from Abe's Books. --->>> https://www.slugbooks.com/9781604130287-the-pony-express-bringing-mail-to-the.html

$3.95 includes free shipping. --->>> https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/Bo..._-30847-_-77798&ref=imprad30847&afn_sr=impact

Perhaps it's also available from a local library such as through an inter-library loan.
Another idea would be to visit a college library even if only to scan through it during the visit.
 
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I found that's a textbook that's available used for as little as $3.95 from Abe's Books. --->>> https://www.slugbooks.com/9781604130287-the-pony-express-bringing-mail-to-the.html

$3.95 includes free shipping. --->>> https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/Bo..._-30847-_-77798&ref=imprad30847&afn_sr=impact

Perhaps it's also available from a local library such as through an inter-library loan.
Another idea would be to visit a college library even if only to scan through it during the visit.
Thanks. Unfortunately I'm not in the US. I'm looking for a deal in Italy, even if I'm a quite reticent to buy used books. Bad experiences in the past. But I believe in this case I'll make an exception.
 
This thread seems like a lot of running around and tail chasing to me.

It's pretty obvious nobody knows for absolute certain. One thing though is th r spare cylinders are cool and I don't care if they are historical or not. This is one cool rig:

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I agree with Slamfire. It is hard to visualize swapping Colt cylinders barehanded.

I have no experience with a Remington pattern revolver, are they easier to dismount?
 
You are saying that movie prop gun is a stock Remington?
And if you want to get your tactics from a film director, I also note that when he finished off his opponent, he drew a second gun rather than swap cylinders again.
 
You are saying that movie prop gun is a stock Remington?
And if you want to get your tactics from a film director, I also note that when he finished off his opponent, he drew a second gun rather than swap cylinders again.

The cylinder appears to swap the same as a stock Remington.
Although I didn't notice the hammer position when he did it.'
Did Clint make it look too easy?
 
He made it look easy and he really took his time about it, too, relative to facing down a gunfighter.

I bet he got a retake if he fumbled the load, too.
 
The book I have " Remington Army & Navy Revolvers 1861-1888 " by Don Ware is hard cover and 434 pages. It's all about Remington's contracts with the North and the troubles they had fill fulling them. I couldn't find [ could have missed it ] anything about extra cylinders being issued or offered.
About ammo - a contract of June 28, 1862, two cavity molds, RB and bullet, were supplied with each gun, 2,500 36s and 9,750 44s. None were delivered on the contract of July6, 1863. Eighteen cents was deducted from each pistol supplied. Early in the war combustible cartridges were adopted and made powder flask and bullet molds obsolete. These last four sentences were taken form the book mentioned above.
 
Anybody who has ever reloaded a ML revolver already knows what is quicker and easier to do - reload or replace with a loaded cylinder in a Remington revolver. That's pretty much a no brainier. JMHO
 
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