Never owned an AR before

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As everyone seems to agree there are a multitude of entry level AR's that are quality firearms capable off thousands of rounds without breakage. I personally build many of my AR's using Aero Precision parts, top quality stuff with barrels made by Ballistic Advantage and have a nice QPQ finish. Colts are deserving of all the hype they receive, i have several that will shoot longer than i will be around to shoot them. Both the LW and standard are fun to shoot....if i could only have one AR it would be a 6720 Light weight.
 
Coal Dragger said:
C-Grunt's suggestion to spend a few more $$$ and get a Colt is spot on in my opinion. For the money you are not likely to get better assembly and parts quality than a LE6720 or LE6920.

On another site there are posts from a blog by a guy who runs Battlefield Vegas, a full auto rental range, and he has noted that his Colts seem to hold up very very well, in fact so far no failures of Colt bolts whereas most others only go about 20K rounds before they start cracking bolt lugs. In fairness 20K is a lot of ammo down the pipe (especially in full auto) and the barrel will be gone before that and you replace the bolt when you replace the barrel.

Some other perspective on the care feeding, and quality of the AR platform from the late great Pat Rogers:



At about 21:00 he goes into what fails and the differences between a hobby grade gun like a S&W and a duty grade gun like a Colt, Bravo Company Machine, Daniel Defense, Knights Armament, LMT, or SIONICS.

The whole video is excellent and all AR owners or prospective owners should watch it.
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Actually MrGunsNGear facebook page the other day had a Colt broken bolt. Was something like 40,000 rounds through it.
 
When we have a thread like this, people will inevitably recommend that shooters increase their budget and buy a Colt. As former military, current LEO and a several year competitive shooter, I will ask them what they are doing with a Colt, that I am not doing with a entry level gun. For several threads, there have been no firm answers. I'm not saying don't buy a Colt, or that people shouldn't be happy with their Colts, just the Colts don't do anything better than the best budget guns.

What I recommend you do is benefit from some of the simple advancements that have been made of the last decade or so that make the AR more comfortable to shoot. Namely, a mid-length 16" barreled upper (or 18" rifle length upper), and a lower with more comfortable furniture. For something specific, look these options:

This lower: http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-...wer-magpul-moe-edition-black-no-magazine.html

Combined with this upper: http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-...7-melonite-freedom-upper-with-bcg-and-ch.html

OR

Combined with this upper: http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-...ide-15-keymod-upper-no-bcg-or-ch-7779760.html
And this BCH/CH: BCG and CH

That would be a much more efficient use of your money, and last for thousands of dollars worth of ammo (Good ARs shoot their worth several times over in ammunition). All you would need would be a sight/optics and some magazines.

The Aero Precision AC15 is in my opinion the best budget gun out there. Doesn't have a lot of the corner cuts that some of the others have, ie non chrome lined barrel.
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According to Aero, it is a QPQ treated barrel, not chrom lined.
Edit: I saw that you don't want to buy the upper and lower separate after I posted, but I'd still recommend it. It will be cheaper, offer better choices and require no more assembly than an average cleaning.
 
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I can also recommend a PSA build. Last year, I bought a complete lower for $139, a carbine upper for $189 and a BCG/CH for $100. Add a magpul rear sight and I'm in this gun $480 + $25 for the lower transfer fee. $505 and I'm very happy with it, solid rifle.
 
do yourself a favor and don't buy an AR with carbine length gas system... unless your going to register an SBR, the mid-length or rifle length gas ARs are (imho) a far better option.
 
NWcityguy2 said:
What I recommend you do is benefit from some of the simple advancements that have been made of the last decade or so that make the AR more comfortable to shoot. Namely, a mid-length 16" barreled upper (or 18" rifle length upper), and a lower with more comfortable furniture. For something specific, look these options:

This lower: http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-...wer-magpul-moe-edition-black-no-magazine.html

OR

Combined with this upper: http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-...ide-15-keymod-upper-no-bcg-or-ch-7779760.html
And this BCH/CH: BCG and CH

That would be a much more efficient use of your money, and last for thousands of dollars worth of ammo (Good ARs shoot their worth several times over in ammunition). All you would need would be a sight/optics and some magazines.
Click to expand...

I'm an AR-15 noob.

1. When the description says "complete" lower does that include a trigger? Do you know if that lower uses a two stage or single stage trigger -- I have a preference for two stage triggers.

2. Are any special tools required to combine the upper, CH, BCG, and lower into a complete rifle?

3. What's the recommendation for reliable magazines?
 
A complete lower usually includes a single stage trigger. PSA did sell a lower with their EPT trigger which is polished and better than milspec IMO (I have both). If you want a 2 sure trigger you would need to buy a premium lower for much more money or replace the milspec one most complete lower come with. The RRA national match one of the better ones that don't break the bank at $85ish. Larue MBT is also very good. It's $99 if you can wait a few weeks or $125 for immediate ship

No tools are required to put a complete upper and lower together. It's easier than breaking down a pistol. You just connect them and push two pins together. The bcg and charging handle just side into the upper. YouTube is great to see how to do this

Magpul are very reliable IMO. I also have not had any issues with the GI mags PSA sells for $6.99 most of the time. D&h brand..

I agree with the posts about getting the PSA upper and lower septate. It's the best value going IMO. If you can spend a little extra on their premium upper they use FN chrome lined barrels that are HPI/MPI tested, but for most people the "freedom" melonite or nitride (same thing) are fine.

For a complete rifle I think the Aero AC15 is the best value. Primary Arms and Brownells usually have them on sell for $575ish. It has a MPI tested barrel and HPT/MPI tested bcg unlike the S&w sport 2 (not saying it's a bad gun just not my first budget choice). The AC15 also has a 7075 buffer. I think the sport 2 is 6075 which is weaker, but probably didn't matter for a range gun
 
In addition to what Everready said, almost all complete AR lowers come with a similar trigger. It is one of those things where, if it doesn't say it comes with a special trigger, then it doesn't.

As far as connecting and disconnecting an upper and lower, it is very easy and requires no tools. It's part of the cleaning process to do that, in addition to removing the carrier and charging handle from the upper receiver. Certainly nothing that even the newest AR owner can't do.

For magazines, PMAGs, D&H, Colt or Brownells are all good to go, among others as well, but that's what I use. I've been buying lots of D&H mags since they have been on sale so much these last couple years.

Hope it helps.
 
And, even if your AR doesn't come with the trigger you want, and even if you can't afford a premium trigger now, when you can afford one it is a simple case of removing two pins to replace the entire fire control group. You do need to remove the pistol grip (simple using either a screw driver or allen wrench) so as to remove the safety (make sure you don't lose the safety detent and spring), but this is a very easy process.
 
Corn-Picker said:
I'm an AR-15 noob.

1. When the description says "complete" lower does that include a trigger? Do you know if that lower uses a two stage or single stage trigger -- I have a preference for two stage triggers.
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A. All complete lowers will include a trigger as well as the rest of the fire control group, grip, stock, buffer tube, buffer, all the various pins, springs, trigger guard and so on. Everything you need to pop the complete lower on a complete upper and to have it function. If they do not then it's not a complete lower.

B. On the trigger question it depends completely on the lower in question and they have a variety of options and triggers to choose from.

As examples of what I'm talking about here are three different ones.

http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-ar-15-complete-blem-lower-classic-edition-no-magazine.html

http://palmettostatearmory.com/blem-psa-ar15-moe-ept-lower-black.html

http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-...ontrol-group-black-no-magazine-516444715.html

2. Are any special tools required to combine the upper, CH, BCG, and lower into a complete rifle?
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No, not to put those you mentioned together.

Only tools you'll need period (just so long as it's a complete upper and complete lower) is a screwdriver or Allen wrench to put on a rear sight or front sight or for whatever optic you select.

3. What's the recommendation for reliable magazines?
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I prefer Lancer as my first choice, after that then USGI mags like NHMTG, Okay Industries and then D&H and then Magpul PMags.
 
I do agree on the point about mid-length, it has a softer recoil impulse. When I started out, I was un-educated and just went with a carbine upper. Later on, I bought a "middy" and there is a noticeable difference. The cost is the same.
 
I would stick to name brand complete guns. I have guns from Delton parts and DPMS parts that were very good and in spec. A Palmetto state build was horrible with out of spec parts and no customer service. So I would never buy PSA as they are a parts reseller and many parts have no QC.
 
With a $700.00 budget, my advice would be to save a bit more money and buy a Colt.
Colt has some great deals going on now at various places and you're only going to be spending $150-$200 more. That extra money is going to be worth it in the long run. I would also recommend Daniels Defense and BCM, but right now they are going to be running a bit more than the Colts 6920's.
Okay Industries makes some great GI Magazines and P-Mags are also great. Either way, or better yet a nice mix of both and you wont go wrong.
I used Colts at work for years and never had an issue with them.
 
OP, I bought my first AR back in September 2016 on election jitters. I didn't really see the attraction to the AR quite frankly and that is why I never previously bought one. Let me tell you, I don't know what I was thinking because I have the AR bug now. I decided on the S&W MP 15 sport 2 and paid $600. The choice was the S&W or the Ruger 556, barrel is the only real difference, The Ruger was out of stock so the S&W came home. I've been very happy with it, no issues, I did upgrade the hand guards to Magpul. Added a Vortex Sparc AR red dot sight. Spending my money on ammo these days!! have fun with this decision and enjoy! AR's are a lot of fun!
 
I think most of the lower end "M4gery" ARs are about the same.

I have a Windham that I have had very good luck with. A friend has the Smith and Wesson M&P sport AR, and it seems pretty solid too.

I guess the question is, what do you want to do with the gun? Do you want an "M4gery" (carbine), or do you want a rifle? For $700 I would think you could get a 20 inch rifle with a free float that you do some serious shooting with (just add scope).

I have 2 ARs because I wanted both a rifle and a carbine. My above mentioned Windham is just a basic M4gery carbine, I put Magpul furniture on it and fixed iron sights, a light, and a sling. It's my zombie apocalypse gun. I also have a "frankengun" home made 20 rifle in 6.5mm Grendel, it's my "take to the range and try to shoot small groups" gun, emphasis on the word "try" LOL.
 
I should also add that if you're going with an M4gery carbine the mid-length gas system is nice, particularly if you plan to shoot with iron sights, as it gives you a better sight radius. Also gives you a longer hand guard and thus more room to attach gizmos (if you want to attach gizmos).

And a light profile barrel would be something I'd recommend too. If you get the "M4" profile barrel it makes the gun nose-heavy (the barrel is thicker at the muzzle end than it is at the receiver end for some reason). I have no idea why this barrel profile is so popular because I see literally no advantage to it at all.
 
ColoradoShooter77 said:
I have (2) PSA uppers and (2) PSA BCG's.....both have been flawless. My experience is much different than d2wing.
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PSA has been great for me as well. I think you could find someone out there that has had problems with ANY manufacturer. I have read about issues about DPMS and Delton more than once. DPMS uses an aluminum gas block that causes a lot of issues
 
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I want to thank every one of you for the valuable insight and experience you have shared. I will take all advise seriously.
 
Get something like the S&W M&P Sport II for around $500, comes with a warranty and it will almost certainly not break in any kind of normal use. The only downside to ALL of the low priced guns is the trigger. But you can buy a very good to excellent drop in trigger than even a monkey with a wrench (like me) can install in 2 minutes for well under $200.
 
There are plenty of higher priced ARs with the same, or similar trigger. If a good trigger is what you are after, and the AR trigger is by no means bad in the world of military triggers, upgrading after the fact is the best route.
 
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