New 220

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Whiskey Creek

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I have a new Sig 220 with SRT and beaver tail grip....basically an Elite but in all black.
I have been told that Sig has "to hell and back reliability" and " best out of box reliability".

This one:
1- Jammed a 1/2 dozen times in the first 50 rnds.
2-Shoots 12-15 inches left of pt of aim at 15 paces.
3-Every empty brass ejected has a burr on the rim.
Please note.... I tried several diff ammo.

Sig tells me this is normal and the gun needs to be broken in. I have or do own several other brands including Glock, Beretta, Springfield, Kimber, and Wilson and have never had a problem.

Thoughts??????????
 
Let someone else shoot it first, preferrably a seasoned shooter (not saying you're not, I don't know). I'm not sure what 15 paces is, and shooting 12-15" left for a Sig is very uncommon. What kind of jam, there are several types?

Is the burr from the extractor or the ejector? Where the burr is on the rim will determine this.

My P-220 shoots about 1/2" right at 12 yards, but I haven't adjusted the windage, yet.
 
Nonsense. There is no excuse for the jams. Hitting that far from point of aim is not right either. I assume it is the gun and you aren't pulling to one side or the other when pulling the trigger. The burr on the rim may or may not be OK. That might mean the extractor is set up too tight which also may contribute to the jamming.

This issue of "it needs to be broken in" really gets to me. It is an excuse.
If a car wouldn't run in the first 50 miles, stop 6 times in the first 50 miles, would we find that acceptable?

I would firmly admonish SIG and tell them you want the gun fixed or replaced.
They should not put out a gun that is not right.
 
Pulling

The OP said he had several other handguns and had not had a problem. He obviously thinks something is wrong with the SIG that he had not experienced with the other handguns.
 
shooting that far left..assuming the OP is right handed...really does shout "shooter"

it does sound like the extractor might be a bit tight, but that would wear in with use
 
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Before going ballistic with Sig, I suggest having one or two other people shoot the gun - as confirmation of the problem. Then, I'd go ballistic with Sig.
 
I have been told that Sig has "to hell and back reliability" and " best out of box reliability".
Years ago that may have been a fairly true statement. But Sig came under new ownership around 2000. Since then reliability seem more like hit or mis from what I see going on at my local range. Quality control seems to be lacking at Sig these days. Considering the premium price of anything Sig these days it is really sad.

Sig tells me this is normal and the gun needs to be broken in.
Well this sure sounds like lip service to me. I bought a P220 in the 80s and a P232, P229S in the 90s both they are extremely reliable. Never had "breaking in" issues like that with mine.
 
Sig tells me this is normal and the gun needs to be broken in.

Hogwash! the way you describe the guns performace is not normal. I have a Sig P-220 and a Sig P-226, both were flawless out of the box and shot very well.

This is giving you the benefit of doing your part. I have had a lot of people say the grip of the sigs was too big for them and they could not hold the gun comfortably.

These are 15 yard tagets, 1 mag each from the first 50 rounds I put through mine.
P-220 Elite
th_SigP-22015yardtarget.gif

P-226 Blackwater
th_SigP-22615yardtarget.gif
 
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If the OP says he owns all those guns, including single-action 1911s, I'm sure he knows what to expect from a "to hell and back reliable" P-220 and most likely knows how to shoot it. Obviously, he's doing his part and the gun isn't.

I'd call Sig and politely ask them to fix your gun for you. Better yet, if you got it from a local gun shop take it there and have them take care of the problem for you. You payed out the wazoo for a top-of-the-line handgun. You should accept nothing short of top-of-the-line performance. Just my 2 cents..good luck!
 
the sights haven't been regulated.

wouldn't you think the OP would have noticed if the sights were off enough to throw the shots 12"-15" at 10-15 yards. i guess we could ask...

OP: do your sights, both front and rear, appear to be centered on the slide?
 
Having watched many shooters over the years shoot to different points of aim ... using the same pistol and ammunition ... I've come to be a bit conservative in making assumptions and guesses.

I prefer to be present when the shooter is actually experiencing the reported 'sight alignment' issue ... or feeding issue, or whatever issue is being reported. I prefer to observe the shooter while he/she is shooting the gun. I like to shoot it myself, using the same ammunition in the same condition as when it's being used by the shooter (checking for maintenance, ammunition and even environmental influences present at the time the issue is reported as being experienced). I even like to watch other folks shoot the same gun and ammunition at times.

Why?

Because I've solved more 'gun problems' by correcting a shooter, maintenance or ammunition-related condition than I have actual gun problems.

Break in?

Some relevance. Not all newly assembled machines are free of burrs, sharp edges or sometimes a bit of a rough surface between two or more working parts. Sometimes it's more of a break-in period for the shooter, though.

Sometimes some folks don't clean their NIB pistols (AND magazines) and remove the excessive amount of factory applied packing lubricant often present in NIB firearms.

Sometimes they don't lubricate NIB pistols, either. Sig Sauer pistols are considered 'wet guns' for a reason, too. The instructor in the Sig Sauer pistol armorer class repeated that almost as a mantra throughout the 2-day class. There was even a fill-in-the-blank question on the written test regarding how to determine whether a Sig Sauer pistol was properly lubricated, and the correct answer had to be something along the lines of being able to verify the presence of lubrication by touch & sight.

One time I watched as a pair of experienced firearms instructors each experienced a single failure-to-feed with a pair of NIB P220 & 226 pistols, using duty ammunition, within the very first magazine load in each pistol. Each pistol had ONE feeding problem right away. Granted, they ere fired right out-of-the-box, with factory grease oozing from the pistols and excessive oil present on and within the magazines. They functioned fine from that point onward, though.

An excessively 'wet' (oil), gooey magazine & follower can sometimes slow down the normal freedom of movement of rounds in the magazine, though, and could potentially affect feeding. Much like a very dirty magazine which has been contaminated with fouling, debris, grit, sand, etc.

Some folks aren't comfortable with the grip dimensions of the typical Sig Sauer pistol. Others may not be as comfortable as they might expect with the traditional double action trigger operation and weight, and may shift their grip a bit while shooting, which could lend itself under the wrong circumstances to grip-stability related feeding and functioning issues.

If someone thinks the sights are drifted so far off that the gun is shooting noticeably off to one side, I ask them to shoot the gun to the same point-of-aim ... using their other hand. If the gun shoots to a different point-of-impact it gives me something to consider while continuing to diagnose things.

I've found ball & dummy drills done unexpectedly can sometimes yield some insight, too. If the shooter actually feels something unexpected or unintentional occurring to them when they're expecting recoil it can help them understand what's occurring, which is the first step toward correcting something (and it helps them accept that it's really happening, and that it's something within their control to change).

Sometimes folks familiar with one, or even a few, handgun designs might find themselves experiencing noticeably different results when shooting a new and different design.

Dunno about the case marking. Have to see it and think about it after examining and trying the pistol & magazines using the same ammunition.

Just out of curiosity, is this one of the P220's with the second of the internal extractors, or the newest external pivoting/plunger design (like the other calibers presently use)? Some feeding issues can be caused by an extractor, and the previous internal tensioned extractor in the American-made solid machined slides did require some attention upon occasion. Even a pivoting extractor could have a potential issue if there was a burr or other condition affecting the operation of the spring-powered plunger or the condition of the extractor hook itself. Things have sometimes slipped through QC before, and likely will again.

FWIW, we were told in my armorer class that sometimes a new 220 might have a tight fitting barrel (in the slide), illustrated by occasional feeding issues occurring with the first 150 rounds. We were told the tight tolerances could be resolved by either 'seating the barrel' (involves the use of a brass hammer applied in an appropriate manner ;) ) or else it might resolve itself as normal wear occurred.

Advertising is just that ... advertising.

Warranties, spare parts and service technicians exist for a reason, you know ... just like service departments and service technicians in car dealerships. It may be frustrating, but it won't do any good to remain frustrated.

Sig Sauer has some good folks and a good reputation. I'd have confidence in their customer service. You could always call back and ask to speak to someone else (if the same person ends up on the phone) ... politely & nicely ... and explain your experience and concerns.

Just my thoughts. I'm not there and I can't know what's happening, or not happening, with your particular pistol.
 
Thanks to you all for your feed back.
I have learned a lot just from your comments.

Here is an update:
I did as the Sig CS rep ask. I took the mags completely apart and boiled all metal parts in water,” to remove any excessive grease". Then reexamined, cleaned, and heavily oiled the pistol. The next day I was off to the range with the 220, as well as a NIB 226 of mine and NIB 226 Black Water of my buddy's.

In a standing position at 25 feet I could easily wear a ragged fist size whole with both of the 226s. Also, there were no failures in either gun.

When I began to shoot the 220 I must admit a MUCH improved group, only shooting 2-4 inches left. Also the burr on the rim of the spend case was far less pronounced, and no jams in 100 rounds. However, with the last 5 strings I shot, the slide failed to lock back. I used both factory supplied Sig mags to ensure it was not the mag causing the issue and was shooting 7 round strings. It is a bear to get that 8th round in!!!!

So although it was a much better experience....still not what I expect from a $900.00 gun. Also the 226s provided reassurance that it is not the shooter
 
sounds excellent that you could reduce your lateral displacement of your group from 12" to 2" with the grip improvement.

to double check the grip', as opposed to the mag's, relationship to the failure of the slide to lock back, try shooting with your other hand...it removes any chance of the grip activating the slide stop

the last round can often be hard to get into the mag, depending on which style of mag you're using. it is not uncommon that loading the last round is difficult until the mag springs loosen. are you using the flush bottomed mags or the ones with the bumpers?
 
I have traded away my SIGs due to terrible quality and parts breaking....

They really are WAY overpriced IMHO.

YMMV
 
FWIW, my friend bought a new 229 stainless 9mm a couple years ago that jammed badly on WWB/Blazer the first 300 rounds or so. I'm talking every other shot. After that, it works fine.

My old 220 had a rear sight that was off about 12" at 25 yards. Drifted it back over, hits dead center now...just not 6 o'clock hold.
 
My old 220 had a rear sight that was off about 12" at 25 yards. Drifted it back over, hits dead center now...just not 6 o'clock hold.

Yep, sometimes they'll come that way, even straight from the factory. If you're an accomplished shooter, shooting from a rest and your poi differs greatly from your poa, the first thing to check is the sights.
 
The mags are 2008-2009 model..with the larger floor plate.
I will put another super clean on it, grap 100 rounds of a new ammo and see what happens.
If I continue to get improvments with each cleaning/100 rounds I will be happy...I guess?? I still beleive a gun that costs close to a grand should shoot much, much better than this one. I agree with 10X I think the "break in period" is an excuse for poor workmanship.
 
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