CraigC
Sixgun Nut
It would have to be a new design entirely. The Marlin 1894 is only good to 40,000psi and even the 336 isn't enough. I wouldn't even run my Puma 1892 .454 over 50,000psi.
New 336 Classic from Ruger aka Marlin thoughts?
- Thread starter horsemen61
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codytrucker
Member
I'd like to see an 1895 model with a higher comb and thick pad , chambered in a .444 necked to .400 with a slight case taper . To get .405 Winchester performance . A 325 grain flat nose at about 2250 FPS . would be " the medicine " for just about anything not a pachyderm . I think it would be " just bully" !!
A .454 necked down to .400 , and shortened to work in pistol cal. length actions would be cool , too . Sort of a .38-40 magnum , or .40-40
A .454 necked down to .400 , and shortened to work in pistol cal. length actions would be cool , too . Sort of a .38-40 magnum , or .40-40
MachIVshooter
Member
I've certainly heard of Puma 454s beating themselves to death with full loads, stretching and spreading receivers.
Mechanically, the 336 round bolt action is sound, bolt can't lift up off the lug by spreading the deeply cut receiver at its weakest point like the square bolt 1894, 1893, 93, original 1895 and 36. But material choice is always a limiting factor. 4140 is just not that strong.
Perhaps it's time to build one with C350 maraging steel and give it a go. We're not stuck with the inferior metallurgy of the early 20th century, and nobody is gonna care about a $50 price increase for the more expensive nickel-cobalt alloys when the guns are already hovering around a grand.
The 336M was offered in .44 Magnum. Not sure if Ruger could do the .454C in the 336 action or not. But that action has handled some pretty good butt stomping rounds albeit at generally lower pressures. As @MachIVshooter mentions, there are alloys now with considerably more strength that 4140 alloy. At a cost in material and processing and machining. Ruger has already improved the heat treat process over both Remington and (JM) Marlin.
I would want one, pretty sure, but owning four .45-70 Marlins I have to stop and ask myself what exactly could a .454C 336 do that the existing .45-70 1895 cannot do better and then some? Someone please enlighten me so that I will keep wanting one
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CraigC
Sixgun Nut
The Marlin action can't handle 50,000psi .45-70 loads, much less the .454's +90,000psi proof loads. What folks don't seem to understand is that all the manufacturers and several custom gunsmiths tried to adapt all the existing actions to the .454 over 20yrs ago when Ruger brought the cartridge into the mainstream. None succeeded, especially the Marlins. The Winchester Big Bore 94 did okay at 50,000psi and Keith DeHart built a few. The 1892 does the best of the pistol length actions and the 1886 handled it with ease but no one wants a 9lb .454. It's the large vertical locking lugs that make the most difference. That is why the only commercially available levergun in .460/.500S&W is the Bighorn Armory, which is an 1886/1892 hybrid. Basically an 1886 abbreviated for length.
Maybe the incorporation of stronger alloys like Ruger uses in their .454 revolvers would help, maybe not.
Maybe the incorporation of stronger alloys like Ruger uses in their .454 revolvers would help, maybe not.
Maraging steels can have a yield strength, if not mistaken and probably am, of two to three times 4140 steel.
MachIVshooter
Member
Material makes all the difference.
We can build a suppressor with 17-4 H900 stainless with walls half as thick as one made from 6061-T6 aluminum that will withstand more than double the pressure.
4140 is not a "bad" material, but there have been a lot of advancements the last half century that give options when "good enough" is no longer good enough.
The question is whether or not the market will bear the cost in sufficient numbers to justify the increased material cost, tooling costs and production time. 17-4 PH is a superior barrel & receiver alloy choice to 416, way stronger and much more corrosion resistant. But the higher nickel & chrome content make it more expensive, it's a lot slower to machine, much harder on tooling, chip control is a challenge, and really has to be cut rifled.
.45Coltguy
Member
I've also read somewhere[sorry] that Ruger will have the 1:20 twist in 1894 .44 mag rifles. And finally doing away with MicroGroove rifling.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
That depends, a .454 levergun is not a suppressor. When it come to leverguns and revolvers, the design plays a huge role. Else we'd all be shooting .454 1873's and N-frames.
dh1633pm
Contributing Member
Just picked up a 336CS last week. It’s a 1994 vintage in excellent shape. Can’t wait to see Marlin bring this one back.
It is not just "heard" but it is fact, no Micro-Groove, this has been stated and written repeatedly by various Ruger folks. Micro-Groove is fine with jacketed bullets but it is less than good with cast lead bullets. The barrles are built with Ruger's cold hammer forged process and in the two I have thus far are excellent.
herrwalther
Member
- Joined
- May 1, 2013
- Messages
- 8,130
While I haven't had my Marlin that long, I am the same way. I likely won't buy a new 336 and just hold on to the one I have. It will soon be a secondary hunting rifle if I don't see any new 35 Remington ammo being made.
Pat Riot
Contributing Member
If they, Ruger / Marlin lead off with the .35 Remington they might want to tell the ammo companies. Have you looked for 35 Remington ammo and brass lately?
I wouldn’t be surprised if they came out with the 360 Buckhammer at some point. I have two 30-30s now. I don’t really need another. I might be enticed to by a new 336 if chambered in a cartridge that has some manufacturing support.
Years ago I bought a Marlin 336 CB 38-55. The bore was cut for .380 bullets, not the modern SAAMI standard .376 bullets. It was a fun gun for CAS side matches and a fun shooter. Very accurate with my hand loads, but there was no decent factory ammo and what there was was not accurate from my gun. I eventually sold it.
I recently saw one of the new Marlin 1895 Guide Guns. Boy, was it nice. I have a feeling the 336’s will look great.
Henry has already partnered up with Vista on the 360 Buckhammer. If Marlin had the first 360 Buckhammer gun manufactured or started the new 336 line in that cartridge it would sure go a long way to kicking off this new old model on the market the right way. It’s what I would do if I were Ruger.
I wouldn’t be surprised if they came out with the 360 Buckhammer at some point. I have two 30-30s now. I don’t really need another. I might be enticed to by a new 336 if chambered in a cartridge that has some manufacturing support.
Years ago I bought a Marlin 336 CB 38-55. The bore was cut for .380 bullets, not the modern SAAMI standard .376 bullets. It was a fun gun for CAS side matches and a fun shooter. Very accurate with my hand loads, but there was no decent factory ammo and what there was was not accurate from my gun. I eventually sold it.
I recently saw one of the new Marlin 1895 Guide Guns. Boy, was it nice. I have a feeling the 336’s will look great.
Henry has already partnered up with Vista on the 360 Buckhammer. If Marlin had the first 360 Buckhammer gun manufactured or started the new 336 line in that cartridge it would sure go a long way to kicking off this new old model on the market the right way. It’s what I would do if I were Ruger.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
They surely would. They have a habit of cahooting with Hornady.
OrangePwrx9
Member
The end of MicroGroove is what I've been hoping for. Cast bullets and leverguns go together.
earlthegoat2
Member
I wonder why Ruger didn’t include the spiral fluted bolt on all models?
Just looked at the Marlin homepage. The 1894 is on there now showing late spring as a release.
It has a carbine forend with barrel band which is a difference from the typically produced 1894s from Remlin and old Marlin which had a rifle style forend with a cap.
I would rather have the rifle style and wish all the 336/1895s were rifle style also.
Just looked at the Marlin homepage. The 1894 is on there now showing late spring as a release.
It has a carbine forend with barrel band which is a difference from the typically produced 1894s from Remlin and old Marlin which had a rifle style forend with a cap.
I would rather have the rifle style and wish all the 336/1895s were rifle style also.
