New Auto Breech Lock Pro

[GT1]

Hey, that unboxing video was great and we finally have an up close look at the thing.
Too bad they didn't try to implement a reliable automated primer feed system. That smarts a little because I am a Lee fan, but it is a glaring deficiency. That sound I hear is a ball being dropped.

 

[LiveLife]

Press base, like the new 2018 Pro 1000, is steel with subplate being metal. Everything colored red would be plastic.

I am curious about "free floating" shell plate and downward movement limited by plastic over metal subplate. Of course, we won't know how this setup will work out or how durable it would be until we actually put some rounds on the press. However, if the shell plate works like Pro 1000 with ram mounted under Station #1, it could produce very consistent OAL variance.

FYI, Pro 1000 produced .003" OAL variance with RMR 115 gr FMJ and .002" OAL variance with RMR 124 gr FP (Match Winner) using mixed range brass and both bullets produced .001" OAL variance with pre-resized mixed range brass on a recent thread - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...progressive-press.833604/page-2#post-10779806

This is seriously consistent OAL variance rivaling single stage and similar setup is used with Auto Breech Lock Pro (Pro 4000) so I am optimistic.

BTW, details of off-set ram mount of Pro 1000 and Pro 4000 discussed on this post - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...progressive-press.833604/page-2#post-10779966

 

[thomas15]

Will LEE be able to develop and integrate a auto priming system??

Too bad they didn't try to implement a reliable automated primer feed system. That smarts a little because I am a Lee fan, but it is a glaring deficiency.

GT1 I think you are correct given that the pez dispenser unit puts the primer into the arm at the top of the stroke.
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FYI, Pro 1000 produced .003" OAL variance with RMR 115 gr FMJ and .002" OAL variance with RMR 124 gr FP (Match Winner) using mixed range brass and both bullets produced .001" OAL variance with pre-resized mixed range brass on a recent thread

That is OK for those fortunate to use RMR bullets but what about us commoners that use budget bullets like Sierra or Hornady (Match loser)? What kind of OAL variance are those handloaders expected to achieve with inexpensive Starline brass?

 

[LiveLife]

That is OK for those fortunate to use RMR bullets but what about us commoners that use budget bullets like Sierra or Hornady (Match loser)?

The fact that Pro 1000 with off-set ram mounted under Station #1 produced OAL variance down to .001" indicates two things:

• Pro 1000 floating shell plate/carrier/ram setup is capable of consistent OAL
• RMR 115 gr FMJ and 124 gr FP bullets have consistent nose profile

Which means OAL variance could be consistent for other bullets (provided they have consistent nose profile to engage the bullet seating stem).

I have Sierra FMJ and Hornady HAP bullets I can load to check the OAL variance if you like. I used to use Montana Gold FMJ/JHP and Winchester FMJ bullets as my reference bullets but after RMR started manufacturing FMJ/JHP bullets in-house, I started using them for my reference bullets as I found them to be more consistent OAL and bullet weight variance wise.

What kind of OAL variance are those handloaders expected to achieve with inexpensive Starline brass?

I am a fan of Starline brass. I can also run the OAL variance test with Starline brass if you like.

 

[kidneyboy]

Hey, that unboxing video was great and we finally have an up close look at the thing.
Too bad they didn't try to implement a reliable automated primer feed system. That smarts a little because I am a Lee fan, but it is a glaring deficiency. That sound I hear is a ball being dropped.

On the other side of the coin, not having an automated primer feed is a huge plus for me.

 

[thomas15]

You can if you want but until I win the lottery I'm stuck with Redding competition, RCBS and Dillon dies not Lee as the 4 pc sets with the factory crimp die feature is out of reach funding-wise. But it is a nice gesture bds.

 

[LiveLife]

I like Dillon and RCBS dies and also use their presses.

I don't need to use FCD for my rounds loaded on Lee dies.

 

[thomas15]

So are you saying I might get a good result with my Redding dies? If so that would be a relief.

 

[big_aug]

This looks awful to use. The priming system there looks just terrible.

 

[LiveLife]

Too bad they didn't try to implement a reliable automated primer feed system.

More speculation from me.

I think Auto Breech Lock Pro (Pro 4000) probably was under development for quite a few years and during that time, I bet Lee considered and evaluated many different priming options.

With Pro 1000, there were many complaints from users and Auto Breech Lock Pro (Pro 4000) has features from other presses likely to address those complaints like Breech Lock for dies, steel base, through ram spent primer disposal, index rod for shell plate (which is also on the 2018 model of Pro 1000 along with steel base), etc.

The priming system there looks just terrible.

Welcome to THR and join the club on safety prime for the new press.

The fact that Auto Breech Lock Pro was released with the safety prime tells me they could not find a better priming system and they defaulted to a priming system that probably performed the most reliable from their testing. (Maybe John Lee is having second thoughts about using Safety Prime?)

As a Pro 1000 user, I too hoped for a better automated priming system but we got safety prime and we either have to like/accept it and buy the press or hate it and buy a different press. That's our choice.

If my initial testing goes well, I am planning to use the Auto Breech Lock Pro (Pro 4000) as my reference press to replace Pro 1000 (Yes, I load all of my test rounds for various THR threads on the humble Pro 1000 press with occasional exception when I use C-H 205 single stage press). Which means, based on my various myth busting threads, I will be sorting brass by headstamp/case wall thickness/resized length, bench priming and using pre-resized brass for my future test rounds to reduce reloading variables and better standardize testing methods.

So safety prime is not a deal breaker for me, but it could be for others.

 

[someguy2800]

I have never found the safety prime to be a burden. You just click it with you finger at a point in the press travel where your hands arnt doing anything anyway and you know 100% a primer was fed and is correctly oriented. I guess we will see what I think of it on a progressive. If everything works well on the press I will be ordering a few more shell plates and a bullet feeder.

 

[Bang!]

Ordered mine from MidSouth February 21st. This is what my email from MidSouth says:




We just wanted to let you know that your backorder has finally come into stock!
It has not been processed yet.

Your order will be shipped by US PRIORITY.

Your backorder is finally in stock and can be shipped once we get a response from you.
Please REPLY back to this email as soon as possible, and let us know if you want this order shipped, or if we need to cancel it.
Your order will be cancelled in 7 days if we have not heard from you. Please respond to this email to CANCEL or SHIP.






What!? Anyone else get this? Ship it, of course! Guess I’ll call Monday morning.

UPDATE

They do it this way if your back order is more than six weeks. How nice.

 

[kcofohio]

UPDATE

They do it this way if your back order is more than six weeks. How nice.

I can understand them doing that. Probably not uncommon for someone to place a back-order, then find it in stock somewhere else, then forget to cancel original order.
Then expect seller/retailer to stop a shipment that is already on the way. Probably happened often in the last several years.
Yes, I can see why they have that policy.

 

[Bang!]

Yep, we’re a society with processes and laws designed to guard against the lowest common denominators of our society. We all have to wade thru those processes and laws as if we are also the lowest common denominator in our society.

How nice.

 

[maxxhavoc]

The fact that Auto Breech Lock Pro was released with the safety prime tells me they could not find a better priming system and they defaulted to a priming system that probably performed the most reliable from their testing. (Maybe John Lee is having second thoughts about using Safety Prime?)

As a Pro 1000 user, I too hoped for a better automated priming system but we got safety prime and we either have to like/accept it and buy the press or hate it and buy a different press. That's our choice.

I personally think it was a marketing decision rather than a functional one.

Let's face it, the folks who run Pro 1000s past a couple hundred rounds know they are a strong press that has quirks, but works very well. It also has needed a fourth position to stay relevant with powder cop dies or even the Factory Crimp die that Lee hopes you will buy.

However, the Internet has decided that as far as Lee products go, the Turret press and maybe the single stages are the only ones that are premium product. So making an upgraded Pro 1000 will still probably flop. However, an upgraded Turret Press may make it. So carry over the same naming style and breech lock system, and you may get away with making a Progressive look like a Turret Press upgrade.

The reason most people complain about the Pro 1000 is that they can't figure out how to keep the priming system running. Well, Turret press users love the safety prime. It really kills 2 birds with one stone...but leaves current progressive press users scratching their head.

 

[Rule3]

Yep, we’re a society with processes and laws designed to guard against the lowest common denominators of our society. We all have to wade thru those processes and laws as if we are also the lowest common denominator in our society.

How nice.

You do not think a online retailer should verify that someone still wants the order?
What does that have to do with law and order of society?

 

[ray15]

Well, Turret press users love the safety prime.

Not all. Never could get that Fisher-Price junk working, and I tried and tried.

 

[someguy2800]

Using the safety prime was a large selling point that made me decide to get this instead of a load master. Reason being is that your getting 100% reliability and saving time changing from small to large at the cost of adding a manual operation.

 

[Bang!]

You do not think a online retailer should verify that someone still wants the order?
What does that have to do with law and order of society?

Didn’t say that at all. Retailers run their business how they see fit. I shop where I see fit. That’s how it works.

Companies have processes to protect their profit line. Again, that’s how it works. Some of those processes are to guard against profit loss due to people trying to game them, cheat them, or just have no self discipline to honestly deal with a buisness. Look at Lee Precision’s last two warranty changes as an example. Those processes are extra hoops for honest people to jump through. Kind of like gun control. I’m sure you’ve heard of that. More and more laws for honest gun owning citizens to jump through because of the criminal elements in our society.

It’s annoying to jump through the extra hoops businesses have to put in place to protect their profit line from less than honorable people.


Edit to add: How nice.

 

[LiveLife]

Here are more speculations:

Regardless of safety prime or not, Lee will sell a lot of this press.

Regardless of what future products Lee designs and sells, there will always be people who complain about Lee products.

There always will be people who like Lee products or not like Lee products.

Lee will continue to outsell other reloading press manufacturers around the world whether made in USA or not.

Lee will continue to manufacture their products in the USA.

I will continue to buy C-H (CH4D) and Lee products because they are made in the USA.

 

[someguy2800]

Whose reloading products arnt made in the US?

My press never got here. No doubt due to the snowstorm in Minneapolis. Probable get up here tomorrow

 

[Bang!]

Whose reloading products arnt made in the US?

My press never got here. No doubt due to the snowstorm in Minneapolis. Probable get up here tomorrow

I called Hornady and asked where the LnL AP was made. The lady that answered the phone said the frame was made by them and everything else was outsourced to other American companies. They did not verify where those companies made or outsourced those parts.

 

[maxxhavoc]

Whose reloading products arnt made in the US?

My press never got here. No doubt due to the snowstorm in Minneapolis. Probable get up here tomorrow

Mine should be here Wednesday AM.

 

[thomas15]

However, the Internet has decided that as far as Lee products go, the Turret press and maybe the single stages are the only ones that are premium product. So making an upgraded Pro 1000 will still probably flop. However, an upgraded Turret Press may make it. So carry over the same naming style and breech lock system, and you may get away with making a Progressive look like a Turret Press upgrade.

It's not the internet that has decided Lee's core customer, it is the company itself. All you have to do is look at their marketing materials to understand that.

I'm not trying to make the claim that Lee products don't work or that only those who are on the fringes of the hobby use Lee. But I can say with a high degree of confidence that the business model of the company is to market to budget consumers. There really isn't any reason why Lee couldn't market a premium product that could compete with Dillon or Hornady progressives. But who would buy them?

I called Hornady and asked where the LnL AP was made. The lady that answered the phone said the frame was made by them and everything else was outsourced to other American companies. They did not verify where those companies made or outsourced those parts.

I try to buy US as much as possible I think we all do. I was raised on 3-4 position Olympic style small bore. Hands down, the most widely used hardware by American small bore competitions are Anschutz which is made in Germany. Same for Olympic style precision air rifle, Feinwerkbau (German) is the tackle of choice.

I can also tell you that even in the US military/aerospace/HI-REL Industrial electronics where materials sourced outside of the US are generally disclosed and materials and finished products from countries hostile to the US and/or utilize child labor are shunned, there are some items that are simply not available domestically. There is probably no US manufacturer that can make the claim that their product is 100% US because somewhere in the processing of materials there is some item sourced outside of our country. Might be a small percent or something like a set screw, a washer, a chemical process or plating or mined or recycled raw material or even the capital tools that make the item, but 100% US is highly unlikely.

 

[Rule3]

It's not the internet that has decided Lee's core customer, it is the company itself. All you have to do is look at their marketing materials to understand that.

I'm not trying to make the claim that Lee products don't work or that only those who are on the fringes of the hobby use Lee. But I can say with a high degree of confidence that the business model of the company is to market to budget consumers. There really isn't any reason why Lee couldn't market a premium product that could compete with Dillon or Hornady progressives. But who would buy them?

.

How do you know what Lees business model is or should be?

Why should they manufacture anything other than what they do? It is their company and seem to be doing very well for years with what they make and sell. They have their market just as others have theirs.

Not everyone wants to spend lots of money and "buy once cry once" and join a cult.

It's amazing that there are so many companies making all kinds of presses and they are still in business.

Different strokes as they say.

Ginger or MaryAnn