New Bear Rifle Ideas

[HARV6]

So I've got the itch for a rifle again, and looking to see what you guys have for opinions to get more ideas in my head. The last few years I've hunted black bear in Pennsylvania where a handful get brought in well over 600lbs. I currently hunt with a 7mm Rem Mag, and think it's plenty capable. I would however like something bigger than a .30 cal, and elk/bear capable out to 300yrds. I tend to like cartridges that aren't "vanilla" since I handload. Thinking maybe 325 wsm, 35 Whelen, 375 Ruger, or 444 Marlin.

 

[Sam1911]

In PA, .35 Rem would be great if it needs to be over .30 cal.

The Whelen's a fine choice too.

Our black bears aren't hard to kill.

 

[js8588]

325wsm http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/firearms/detail.asp?fid=023B&cid=035&tid=217

375 Ruger http://www.ruger.com/products/guideGun/models.html

9.3 x 62 http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=431277055 or http://www.sako.fi/sako85models.php?black_bear

 

[critter]

I love the .35 Whelen.

 

[Rick R]

I love the 9.3x62 but it doesn't offer any real advantage over the .35 Whelen except being European. The .45-70 is a lot of fun to hand load for with options from powder puff to I don't have a .375 Ruger but I cast and load a bullet from an NOE mold that would take most game on the planet from my H&H and I'd expect it to work as well in the Ruger cartridge.

You just have the new gun itch and need to scratch it.

 

[gpurp]

Love that CZ 9.3x62 with the full stock. A 45-70 guide gun would be my second pick. Nothing like a big heavy hunk o' lead.

 

[Jlr2267]

The 444 w/265gr FTP is a true thumper. If I thought I might need to take a 300 yd shot, though, I'd stick with the good ole 30-06

 

[eastbank]

with the right 175gr bullet your 7mm mag is more than enough and will shoot very flat at 300yds with a ton of energy once there. eastbank.

 

[PabloJ]

So I've got the itch for a rifle again, and looking to see what you guys have for opinions to get more ideas in my head. The last few years I've hunted black bear in Pennsylvania where a handful get brought in well over 600lbs. I currently hunt with a 7mm Rem Mag, and think it's plenty capable. I would however like something bigger than a .30 cal, and elk/bear capable out to 300yrds. I tend to like cartridges that aren't "vanilla" since I handload. Thinking maybe 325 wsm, 35 Whelen, 375 Ruger, or 444 Marlin.

Too bad about 300 yard requirement. Ole' Winchester 71 or modern Browning reproduction by B.C. Miroku would sure be sweet bear getter. The .348 is true classic and 16gm slug with more than 4000J of energy is plenty of bear medicina.

 

[PabloJ]

PS. Another sweet bush bear cartridge is seldom encountered .358Win. It has lots of knockdown power with not a lot of recoil. Guess most of them pilgrims want something suitable for 300 plus paces shots.

 

[Float Pilot]

300 yards is a good max ethical hunting range, although in reality a good rifleman with a black powder 50-90 can still make good clean shots at that range, so I assume you are really talking about a flat enough trajectory cartridge to help mitigate target distance error.

Here in Alaska we have a few bears here and there... and like you I like to hand-load.

375 Ruger: I have shot and hand-loaded for a few,,,so I built one on a 1917 Enfield action and installed it into a glass bedded laminate stock. It is a very accurate cartridge. HOWEVER..... it has a very snappy recoil. So much so that it sheared my scope mounts right off the rifle after 15-20 rounds. I weigh 220 pounds and I found shooting a barely 8 pound rifle somewhat annoying with this cartridge. Plus magazine capacity is limited.

444 Marlin: I have only loaded this cartridge for friends and sighted rifles that I have worked on. Some factory rifles have the shallow micro groove rifling and do not do well with heavy cast lead or even long heavy jacketed bullets. It strikes me as more of a 150-175 yard cartridge. If you are going that big you might as well get a 45-70 in the same size gun and give yourself the ability to shoot heavy (longer) bullets that are better suited for ranges out to 300 yards.

35 Whelen: This is a great all around cartridge. You get a full 4 or 5 rounds in the magazine, they load smoothly, and the recoil is not obnoxious. You can load 125 grain pistol bullets down to low speeds for small critters and 280 grain A- frames for serious work. People do not get excited about this old gal because it is not sexy and new. Somewhat like your old favorite shovel out in the shed, the name and paint is long worn off, but it does the job every time.

325 WSM: This is basically a 8mm short mag. So it suffers from the choices available with 8mm bullets. And it is not known for sterling accuracy, unlike the 300WSM and 270WSM which are pretty much all tack drivers. You pretty much need RL-15 for the 325 WSM to push a bullet at a good velocity.

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Here are a couple others I have used on various bear size critters that might interest you.

350 Remington Mag: Back when I wanted a new 35 Whelen, I ran across a good deal on a stainless Ruger M77MKII in 350 REM MAG. It is pretty much the original Short Magnum. The Ruger's have an advantage over the Remington Model 7s and the older 600 Mohawks in that they have a slightly longer action and magazine box. Thus they can be loaded to a longer C.O.L. with a touch more powder. I modified my mag box so it loads 280 grain A-frames at a good long COL. It has the same 357-358 bullet selection advantage of the 35 Whelen. The only down side is the 3 round magazine capacity.

358 Winchester: This little jewel deserves more print. It is a neat little round with some good whammy from a light weight short action-ed rifle. It is not quiet enough whammy for intentionally going after big brown bears, BUT,,, I would feel a lot better with a 358 Win while in bear country as compared to a 308.

338 Federal: Basically the same thing as a 358 Win with a slightly smaller diameter bullet. Yes it might have a better ballistic coefficient but it does not matter within 300 yards.

338-06 (338-A Square): This is to the 35 Whelen what the 338 Federal is to the 358 Winchester. Although in this case you can get enough velocity that the improved ballistic co-efficient does make some difference.

358 Norma Magnum: I have built two of these since I wanted to rebel against the 338 Win Mag crowd. Pushing a 250 grain bullet at 2850fps is nothing for this Swedish girl. Brass is a touch expensive and recoil is interesting... They should have named it something different back when it was introduced.

9.3x57mm: This classic old cartridge has brass that is 6mm longer than 308 brass and uses a .366 caliber bullet. It has a power range around that of a 358 Win. It just has classic cool factor written all over it. You can occasionally find old Husqvarna sporting rifles chambered in this cartridge at Allan's Armory. I always thought that a M-48 Yugo action would be perfect for this little thumper.

416 Taylor: I built up one of these for big brown bears. Making brass from 458 Win Mag is easy and Quality Brass sells correctly head-stamped brass. Basically it pushes a 400 grain round nose at 2400 fps. A wee bit much for your needs. And to be honest I think this cartridge caused me some vision problems a couple years back. After the recoil shook loose parts of my eye-balls.

 

[Sheepdog1968]

I don't think it would have the reach but how about the browning a bolt rifled shotgun? I like the looks and the big holes it would produce.

 

[Gtscotty]

I've had a .35 Whelen and a 9.3x62, and decided that neither really did anything for me that the .30-06 didn't. I'm not really interested in non-mainstream cartridges anymore, but If I go above .30 cal again, it will be a .338 WM, a .375 Ruger or a .375 H&H. You're 7mm is obviously more than enough, but If you want something bigger, I'd stick with one of those.

 

[SimplyChad]

My 338 win mag hits like a hammer on anything ive ever pointed it at.

 

[Robert]

The one and only 375H&H. Though the 375 Ruger is really good too.

 

[AKMtnRunner]

I've been looking for something to fill the same role and it came down to the 338 WM, 35 Whelen, and 375 Ruger. The 338 WM looked great ballistically but the inefficiency of it compared to the 35 Whelen bothered me. And I couldn't find a suitable left handed 35 Whelen rifle unless I ordered a custom one. I almost ordered one from ER Shaw, but it looks like it takes 12 months to get it and I'm not that patient. So now I'm looking at going up to the 375 Ruger in the Ruger Guide Gun. The laminate stock and muzzle break system reportedly reduce the recoil down to 30-06 in a 7 lb rifle level. The only real drawback to the 375 is the limited BC's. Nosler Accubond in 260 gr has the best BC for a hunting bullet in that caliber but it's only 0.473. Energy wise, the 260 Accubond out of a 20" bbl (~2700) gets surpassed by a 24" 300 WM throwing a 200 gr Accubond 2900 fps a little after 200 yds. The drop and wind push is also not in the 375's favor. I am thinking that the 35 Whelen would suffer similarly due to somewhat slower speeds and large diameter. But by the Taylor Knockout and Momentum figures, the 375 stays comfortably ahead of a 300 magnum much longer. These are just numbers but they can serve some level of reference.

 

[zerobarrier]

35 Rem or 350 Rem Mag if you want bigger then 30cal. But 30-06 will work for all the game you described, its what my dad used for bear and he has drop 3 with 1 shot. If you hunt in thick woods in PA like I do then the 35 Rem with 220gr bullets works great for black bears and whitetail.

Where in PA do you hunt? I hunt in Allegheny county.

 

[Float Pilot]

My favorite heavy bullet load for the 350 Rem Mag

Bullet....................... Swift A-Frame
Bullet Weight.............280 grs
Powder.......................Alliant Reloader 15
Powder Weight........... 56.0 grs
Primer....................... CCI-200
Brass Make ................Remington
Barrel Length.............22 (inches)
C.O.L ......................2.865 (inches)
Velocity....................2418 fps
Group 100 yds..........0.75 (inches)
Submitted By.... Float Pilot
Gun Info.....Ruger M77MKII Stainless All Weather, MODIFIED
Comment : Very consistent load. Stabilizes well in the faster Ruger Twist rate. Hit like a freight Train. I use a medium roll crimp against the bullet side, as the cannelure is too deep in the case. Loads smoothy.

When zeroed at 230 yards, this load is 4 inches high at 150 yards and 4 inches low at 275 yards. It carries over 2,000 foot pounds of energy out to 300 yards. And has 3,000 foot pounds at 100 yards.

Here is the modified Ruger M77MKII All Weather.

 

[HARV6]

Where in PA do you hunt? I hunt in Allegheny county.

I hunt in the Allegheny National Forest , just north of Marienville.

 

[Robert]

Folks, if you don't have something constructive to post it is best that you don't post. Stick to the topic at hand please or more posts will be deleted and appropriate action will be taken.

 

[zerobarrier]

I hunt in the Allegheny National Forest , just north of Marienville.

That's close to where we have a camp at, Pleasantville which is SE of Titusville.

I tend to like cartridges that aren't "vanilla" since I handload. Thinking maybe 325 wsm, 35 Whelen, 375 Ruger, or 444 Marlin.

Any of those cartridges will be excellent for that area. I have never used any of them but do know some that use the 444 marlin, it works everytime.

 

[DM~]

Folks, if you don't have something constructive to post it is best that you don't post. Stick to the topic at hand please or more posts will be deleted and appropriate action will be taken.

Are you saying, that as a person (read ME) that has hunted bears extensively including brown bears, it's NOT "constructive" to let him know that his 7 Rem. mag. is more than enough for big blk. bears? I mean, I've personally seen 7 Rem. mags, loaded with 175NP's absolutely flatten brown bears, so blk. bear? NO problem at all, and "that's" the point I was trying to get across in my "deleted" post.

I can't see how that's not on topic???

DM

 

[Sam1911]

Let's revisit the OP's words:

"So I've got the itch for a rifle again, and looking to see what you guys have for opinions to get more ideas in my head. "
So, he wants another rifle.

"The last few years I've hunted black bear in Pennsylvania where a handful get brought in well over 600lbs. I currently hunt with a 7mm Rem Mag, and think it's plenty capable. "
So he KNOWS his rifle will flatten bears. That's not the point.

"I would however like something bigger than a .30 cal,"
Ah ha, the crux of the issue.

See, 7mm is SMALLER than .30 cal. He wants something LARGER than .30 cal.

Larger. Not smaller.

So suggesting that he aught to give up hunting if he can't get it done with a 7Mag is rather askew from the focus of the thread, as I'm certain you will agree.

 

[HARV6]

After a day of posts and pondering I'd say the front runners are 325wsm and 338rcm. I really like the idea of having a smaller rifle with power somewhere between a 300wm and 338wm. My typical day bear hunting is hiking into AGC National Forest 30-45mins (some of it pretty rough terain) and setting up shop on ridge where Ive got shooting lanes out to 200 yards. If there's snow on the ground I mosey around looking for tracks. 444 might be another choice, as I live in Ohio, and this will be the first year we can use straight walled rifle cartridges. It may just come down to which one I find first!

 

[Flatbush Harry]

+1 for the .375 H&H.

Mine is a Remington 700 XCR II (Cerakote on Stainless) in a glass-bedded B&C sported stock in Weatherby configuration. I just replaced the trigger with a 3-1/2 lb pull Timney...terrific! I have a 3-9x40 Zeiss Conquest scope in Leupold QR bases and rings that allow both longer and shorter range shots. I hand load Nosler AccuBond 260gr bullets over 69.0 gr of IMR 4064. Very accurate and recoil is like a 12g a shooting slugs. If you ever go to Alaska, you can step up to 300gr ABs for Brown Bear and the 260 gr AB can pretty well match .30-06 ballistics out to 300 yards but with a good bit more stopping power than the -06. Brass is easy to find as is factory ammo.

My $0.02.

BTW, for another $0.02, I've been looking at the Ruger No. 1S in .45-70. You can load .45-70 for that action really hot or load down to 19th century Army pressures. Beautiful rifle, comes with scope mounts, great cartridge.

Happy hunting.

FH