Al Thompson
Moderator Emeritus
No loss there. Nice guys, interesting site, but pretty much a one trick pony with minimal knowledge.
New bullet: "hypercav"
- Thread starter They1
- Start date
- Status
No loss there. Nice guys, interesting site, but pretty much a one trick pony with minimal knowledge.
zombienerd
Member
Not only do you guys trash on his idea, now you're trashing on his living situation...
Really High road... You should really find another forum to populate.. AR15 and Glocktalk may be up your alley...
Please just leave. The rules of this forum are in place to keep this kind of sub-sophomoric blithering to a minimum.
Full Metal Jacket
member
did you look at the satellite photo?
i don't see a living situation, i see a retention pond. nobody's trashing anything. you have to suspicious about someone who provides an address on their website for a retention pond, don't ya think?
don't be so melodramatic, dude.
zombienerd
Member
I looked at the satellite photo... Yep, there's a pond.. there's also a bunch of Manufactured houses right across the street... Ever think that maybe 96 is a house and not a pond? Would make sense.
Google isn't perfect.. When you put in my address, it puts the marker about 6 houses down from where I live.
I'm not being Melodramatic. I visit THR because you USUALLY don't have to see people brow-beating each other, "talking smack", and being generally childish.... It's just not acceptable here. I'm doing my part to point that out.
Google isn't perfect.. When you put in my address, it puts the marker about 6 houses down from where I live.
I'm not being Melodramatic. I visit THR because you USUALLY don't have to see people brow-beating each other, "talking smack", and being generally childish.... It's just not acceptable here. I'm doing my part to point that out.
JamisJockey
member
Thats all I ask, and I think that's all most anyone else who seems skeptical is asking.
Full Metal Jacket
member
i haven't seen any of that on this thread. i've only seen people, such as myself, asking for proof of anything this guy is saying.
i've seen him on 4 other forums, stating the exact same things he's stated here, but never provided any proof whatsoever (of anything!) on those forums either.
i can make outlandish claims, and have a little website with pics too, you guys gonna buy my story as well??
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They1
Member
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To Those shouting “Snake Oil”
They1 does not have to prove anything to us.
He’s not shouting, “Okay, folks, step right up and get these miracle bullets that will stop elephants in their tracks. Only $49.95 for 20 (count ‘em, 20!) of these in 9mm. Hurry while supplies last! They’re going fast! Don’t miss out on the chance of a lifetime! That’s right, lady, just $49.95 and each one is guaranteed (if you catch me before I’m in the next state).”
As for where he lives!?!?!?!? Why does it matter? Google puts the address as a retention pond? Google puts my address 2 miles (count ‘em, TWO miles) from where I live. It even mis-names the part of the road where I really am. If he lives in a trailer does that make him suspect? Do only Snake Oil drummers live in trailers?
Is he trying to get you to “buy his story”? Please reference the post in which he asked for money. Please reference the post in which he asked for your endorsement.
I, too, am skeptical of an enhanced performance but am not going to diss the idea out of hand. I actually don’t believe the idea will work.
I foresee these problems:
1. No orifices are ever exactly equal. This imbalance as air escapes through these will cause the bullet to wobble in flight.
2. The lands of the rifling in the barrel will swage the holes closed and this will probably swage some but not all. This will cause extreme wobble in flight.
3. If all holes get swaged closed these become standard hollow points and the advantage is gone.
4. Even if the bullet makes it to the targeted mass with holes undamaged, when the initial penetration equals the depth of the hollow the hollow will be filled with solid matter and all advantage is gone. This depth will be what? An eighth of an inch, three sixteenths, maybe?
Even so, he’s sharing his idea. He says he’s testing it and I have no reason to doubt this. He’s bearing the expense of developing it, not me.
I have no means to test any kind of bullet but if I did have and wanted to test it I would be willing to pay him his actual cost of producing a few because I personally know that obtaining a patent is an expensive proposition and he’s probably hard pressed for funds because of this. Buying boats or airplanes or a trip around the world are pennies compared to getting a patent.
Will he provide proof? Yes, he will. His proof will be success or failure to sell the patent. If sold the proof will be the market success or failure.
He has no need to prove it here.
They1 does not have to prove anything to us.
He’s not shouting, “Okay, folks, step right up and get these miracle bullets that will stop elephants in their tracks. Only $49.95 for 20 (count ‘em, 20!) of these in 9mm. Hurry while supplies last! They’re going fast! Don’t miss out on the chance of a lifetime! That’s right, lady, just $49.95 and each one is guaranteed (if you catch me before I’m in the next state).”
As for where he lives!?!?!?!? Why does it matter? Google puts the address as a retention pond? Google puts my address 2 miles (count ‘em, TWO miles) from where I live. It even mis-names the part of the road where I really am. If he lives in a trailer does that make him suspect? Do only Snake Oil drummers live in trailers?
Is he trying to get you to “buy his story”? Please reference the post in which he asked for money. Please reference the post in which he asked for your endorsement.
I, too, am skeptical of an enhanced performance but am not going to diss the idea out of hand. I actually don’t believe the idea will work.
I foresee these problems:
1. No orifices are ever exactly equal. This imbalance as air escapes through these will cause the bullet to wobble in flight.
2. The lands of the rifling in the barrel will swage the holes closed and this will probably swage some but not all. This will cause extreme wobble in flight.
3. If all holes get swaged closed these become standard hollow points and the advantage is gone.
4. Even if the bullet makes it to the targeted mass with holes undamaged, when the initial penetration equals the depth of the hollow the hollow will be filled with solid matter and all advantage is gone. This depth will be what? An eighth of an inch, three sixteenths, maybe?
Even so, he’s sharing his idea. He says he’s testing it and I have no reason to doubt this. He’s bearing the expense of developing it, not me.
I have no means to test any kind of bullet but if I did have and wanted to test it I would be willing to pay him his actual cost of producing a few because I personally know that obtaining a patent is an expensive proposition and he’s probably hard pressed for funds because of this. Buying boats or airplanes or a trip around the world are pennies compared to getting a patent.
Will he provide proof? Yes, he will. His proof will be success or failure to sell the patent. If sold the proof will be the market success or failure.
He has no need to prove it here.
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Dravur
Member
Well said Clay.
I am willing to ive this a chance. If it works... GREAT. If not, no biggie. Im not out money
I am willing to ive this a chance. If it works... GREAT. If not, no biggie. Im not out money
They1
Member
Clay, you're right. I can be a bit 'testy' at times. My apologies. I should know better than to lower myself to that level. I should also remind myself that i have better things to do with my time.
They1
Member
Clay, I cut and past your thoughts, so I can address them in-line, and not forget anything. Pls see below:
He’s not shouting, “Okay, folks, step right up and get these miracle bullets that will stop elephants in their tracks. Only $49.95 for 20 (count ‘em, 20!) of these in 9mm. Hurry while supplies last! They’re going fast! Don’t miss out on the chance of a lifetime! That’s right, lady, just $49.95 and each one is guaranteed (if you catch me before I’m in the next state).”
As for where he lives!?!?!?!? Why does it matter? Google puts the address as a retention pond? Google puts my address 2 miles (count ‘em, TWO miles) from where I live. It even mis-names the part of the road where I really am. If he lives in a trailer does that make him suspect? Do only Snake Oil drummers live in trailers?
___
*Actually, I kinda like the notion of living in a retention pond. I'll call it; "Missouri Moat Manor".
___
Is he trying to get you to “buy his story”? Please reference the post in which he asked for money. Please reference the post in which he asked for your endorsement.
I, too, am skeptical of an enhanced performance but am not going to diss the idea out of hand. I actually don’t believe the idea will work.
I foresee these problems:
1. No orifices are ever exactly equal. This imbalance as air escapes through these will cause the bullet to wobble in flight.
*To date, all test rounds have been hand-made via jig and drill. And while this represents the opportunity of imperfection in port alignment, we've seen no detectable variance in flight path, accuracy or trajectory. We've also not detected any sign of 'wobble' in the targets.
Given the small diameter of the ports themselves, any air exchange in flight seems to be negligable.
Mind you, we've not worked up any rifle rounds as yet (it's in the near future), and test range shots have not been beyond 50yds. to date.
The automated machine will be computer controlled with a much higher degree of precision, so getting uniform, consistant radial consistancy won't be an issue.
___
2. The lands of the rifling in the barrel will swage the holes closed and this will probably swage some but not all. This will cause extreme wobble in flight.
*You would be right of course. But in all of the stock ammo we've considered so far, the base of the cavities terminate above the point of the bullet that would be in contact with the barrel. So the actual ports would never make contact. Further research will be needed to address any rounds with cavities into the shank. There may be ammunition out there that do not lend themselves to be functionally ported.
___
3. If all holes get swaged closed these become standard hollow points and the advantage is gone.
*Agreed.
___
4. Even if the bullet makes it to the targeted mass with holes undamaged, when the initial penetration equals the depth of the hollow the hollow will be filled with solid matter and all advantage is gone. This depth will be what? An eighth of an inch, three sixteenths, maybe?
*What you've described here is EXACTLY what the porting is for. To promote that very moment. It's the rapid exchange of the air, with the solid tissue.
Venting the cavity of air allows the cavity to fill with the tissue as soon as possible, reducing the energy expended trying to compress that air to a critical mass, before expansion can begin.
___
Even so, he’s sharing his idea. He says he’s testing it and I have no reason to doubt this. He’s bearing the expense of developing it, not me.
I have no means to test any kind of bullet but if I did have and wanted to test it I would be willing to pay him his actual cost of producing a few because I personally know that obtaining a patent is an expensive proposition and he’s probably hard pressed for funds because of this. Buying boats or airplanes or a trip around the world are pennies compared to getting a patent.
*You got that one right! Cost-wise, not only U.S. Patent, but International as well. Break out the checkbook...
___
Will he provide proof? Yes, he will. His proof will be success or failure to sell the patent. If sold the proof will be the market success or failure.
*Well said.
___
He has no need to prove it here.
He’s not shouting, “Okay, folks, step right up and get these miracle bullets that will stop elephants in their tracks. Only $49.95 for 20 (count ‘em, 20!) of these in 9mm. Hurry while supplies last! They’re going fast! Don’t miss out on the chance of a lifetime! That’s right, lady, just $49.95 and each one is guaranteed (if you catch me before I’m in the next state).”
As for where he lives!?!?!?!? Why does it matter? Google puts the address as a retention pond? Google puts my address 2 miles (count ‘em, TWO miles) from where I live. It even mis-names the part of the road where I really am. If he lives in a trailer does that make him suspect? Do only Snake Oil drummers live in trailers?
___
*Actually, I kinda like the notion of living in a retention pond. I'll call it; "Missouri Moat Manor".
___
Is he trying to get you to “buy his story”? Please reference the post in which he asked for money. Please reference the post in which he asked for your endorsement.
I, too, am skeptical of an enhanced performance but am not going to diss the idea out of hand. I actually don’t believe the idea will work.
I foresee these problems:
1. No orifices are ever exactly equal. This imbalance as air escapes through these will cause the bullet to wobble in flight.
*To date, all test rounds have been hand-made via jig and drill. And while this represents the opportunity of imperfection in port alignment, we've seen no detectable variance in flight path, accuracy or trajectory. We've also not detected any sign of 'wobble' in the targets.
Given the small diameter of the ports themselves, any air exchange in flight seems to be negligable.
Mind you, we've not worked up any rifle rounds as yet (it's in the near future), and test range shots have not been beyond 50yds. to date.
The automated machine will be computer controlled with a much higher degree of precision, so getting uniform, consistant radial consistancy won't be an issue.
___
2. The lands of the rifling in the barrel will swage the holes closed and this will probably swage some but not all. This will cause extreme wobble in flight.
*You would be right of course. But in all of the stock ammo we've considered so far, the base of the cavities terminate above the point of the bullet that would be in contact with the barrel. So the actual ports would never make contact. Further research will be needed to address any rounds with cavities into the shank. There may be ammunition out there that do not lend themselves to be functionally ported.
___
3. If all holes get swaged closed these become standard hollow points and the advantage is gone.
*Agreed.
___
4. Even if the bullet makes it to the targeted mass with holes undamaged, when the initial penetration equals the depth of the hollow the hollow will be filled with solid matter and all advantage is gone. This depth will be what? An eighth of an inch, three sixteenths, maybe?
*What you've described here is EXACTLY what the porting is for. To promote that very moment. It's the rapid exchange of the air, with the solid tissue.
Venting the cavity of air allows the cavity to fill with the tissue as soon as possible, reducing the energy expended trying to compress that air to a critical mass, before expansion can begin.
___
Even so, he’s sharing his idea. He says he’s testing it and I have no reason to doubt this. He’s bearing the expense of developing it, not me.
I have no means to test any kind of bullet but if I did have and wanted to test it I would be willing to pay him his actual cost of producing a few because I personally know that obtaining a patent is an expensive proposition and he’s probably hard pressed for funds because of this. Buying boats or airplanes or a trip around the world are pennies compared to getting a patent.
*You got that one right! Cost-wise, not only U.S. Patent, but International as well. Break out the checkbook...
___
Will he provide proof? Yes, he will. His proof will be success or failure to sell the patent. If sold the proof will be the market success or failure.
*Well said.
___
He has no need to prove it here.
They1
Member
hehe...you have to admit, it's a clever hiding place, yes?Your evil bullet lair and diabolical plan to replace all THR members' ammo with yours is hidden under the retention pond...ADMIT IT!!!!
I too am a little skeptical; however I wish you luck in this endeavor. Whether it it proves to meet its expectaions or not, kudos on you for trying to improve our sport via better ammo.
By the way, how's the fishing in "Missouri Moat Manor"? LOL
By the way, how's the fishing in "Missouri Moat Manor"? LOL
They1
Member
BTW Clay,
Your points and thoughts were very lucid.
I had addressed those possible issues very early in the projects development much to my satisfaction, otherwise this project would have never made it to the public eye.
What you've described, if it were an issue, would have been what I call a "project killer."
Your points and thoughts were very lucid.
I had addressed those possible issues very early in the projects development much to my satisfaction, otherwise this project would have never made it to the public eye.
What you've described, if it were an issue, would have been what I call a "project killer."
crasen
Member
I have a brother I never see that lives on the other side of the pond from you. Better watch out for them retention pond gators.
DAVIDSDIVAD
member
I don't see this thread as a "please support me!" type thing either.
I mean, I see this thread as a favor to our community, like They1 is saying "Hey guys, check out what I'm doing to improve bullet technology. Here's a sneak peak"
Whether THR approves of his design has no bearing whatsoever on whether They1 will make the big bucks with a license from a major ammo manufacturer.
That said, I think all of the party poopers and trolls should kindly leave the thread, it's been de-railed enough as it is.
I mean, I see this thread as a favor to our community, like They1 is saying "Hey guys, check out what I'm doing to improve bullet technology. Here's a sneak peak"
Whether THR approves of his design has no bearing whatsoever on whether They1 will make the big bucks with a license from a major ammo manufacturer.
That said, I think all of the party poopers and trolls should kindly leave the thread, it's been de-railed enough as it is.
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They1
Member
Watch out for them? Who do you think put them there in the first place!
(I have a low crime rate here at the pond...)
Didn't want to up set people because of the Google map site. I mentioned.
I do use Google map when I am buying guns on Gun Broaker or Accessories of the web after I get an address before I send a Money Order. I kinda like to see where my money is going. I have never been stiffed on a buy so far neither.
Very gun related.
I do use Google map when I am buying guns on Gun Broaker or Accessories of the web after I get an address before I send a Money Order. I kinda like to see where my money is going. I have never been stiffed on a buy so far neither.
Very gun related.
DAVIDSDIVAD
member
They1 quick question here:
Are you able to tell us which ammo manufacturers you're talking with, or is that sort of thing confidential?
I ask because I currently carry Cor Bon DPX, and I think your design with that copper Barnes bullet would be neat.
Are you able to tell us which ammo manufacturers you're talking with, or is that sort of thing confidential?
I ask because I currently carry Cor Bon DPX, and I think your design with that copper Barnes bullet would be neat.
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They1
Member
Most of the time Google is accurate. Sometimes it's WAY off. I checked an address one time, showed an empty lot, and I just got back from his house!
The return of Matthew Courtney?
The "Farenheit .451" thread ended kind of abruptly... Sounds like more of the same?
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=407097
The "Farenheit .451" thread ended kind of abruptly... Sounds like more of the same?
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=407097
hammerklavier
Member
Why do you say that? This guy can actually deliver... bullets with holes drilled in them. As far as if they actually work, I'll wait for more testing to be done.
Full Metal Jacket
member
still waiting for any sort of proof whatsoever...
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