SwampWolf
Member
Does the house have a basement? 
New Here, But man I have a neat story!
- Thread starter CeilingCat
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NavyLCDR
member
SwampWolf said:
I'm saying buy a metal dectector and find out what else is on the property!
My vote, BTW, is CeilingCat only has the moral obligation to enjoy his find to the fullest extent possible. If I was in heaven looking down and someone found a gun of mine, I would want most that it make the finder happy and brings joy into their life.
Great finds - both in the ceiling and in this forum.
Not a WA attorney (FWIW, our states have reciprocity), but in my experience, unless there were specifics in the sale contract to the contrary, and if there was a formal inventory of the estate already filed, the sale contract and personal representative/executor's deed for all real and personal property dictates that what came with the house is yours.
Enjoy the fruits of your discovery, and welcome.
Not a WA attorney (FWIW, our states have reciprocity), but in my experience, unless there were specifics in the sale contract to the contrary, and if there was a formal inventory of the estate already filed, the sale contract and personal representative/executor's deed for all real and personal property dictates that what came with the house is yours.
Enjoy the fruits of your discovery, and welcome.
Unistat
Member
In the course of my job I have been through many homes sold by the estate of a deceased person. The home is sold to the new owners as is and whatever is in there at the time of the sale belongs to the new owner unless specifically stated in the contract.
The heirs have ample opportunity to go through the home and remove what ever they want.
I have been in homes that have been stripped clean, including fireplace mantles, and homes that literally not a single thing has been touched from the time of death. Most common is that the heirs will remove what they want to personally keep, then have an estate sale where the public is invited to come into the home and purchase what remains.
In my opinion, the OP has every moral right to keep the firearms he found. If we were talking about golf clubs or old magazines, this wouldn't even be a discussion. We are all very attatched to our firearms (I am sure) and it probably makes us feel bad that the heirs have overlooked these guns, but really, the responsibilty was on them to search the home.
The heirs have ample opportunity to go through the home and remove what ever they want.
I have been in homes that have been stripped clean, including fireplace mantles, and homes that literally not a single thing has been touched from the time of death. Most common is that the heirs will remove what they want to personally keep, then have an estate sale where the public is invited to come into the home and purchase what remains.
In my opinion, the OP has every moral right to keep the firearms he found. If we were talking about golf clubs or old magazines, this wouldn't even be a discussion. We are all very attatched to our firearms (I am sure) and it probably makes us feel bad that the heirs have overlooked these guns, but really, the responsibilty was on them to search the home.
Since I really don’t want to hijack this thread this is going to be my last comment on it.
It’s clear that the OP has no attachment to the firearms as he’s selling most of them off and for all I know he may well have called the heirs and asked them if they were interested before calling the gun shop.
In a situation like this where there’s only ever been one other person living in the house I wouldn’t think it would be a huge strain for someone to pick up a phone, call the heirs and say “Hey I found these guns do you know anything about them?” If the heirs expressed that they were really dismayed that they hadn’t found the guns dear old dad taught them to shoot on or otherwise expressed some strong attachment to the firearms I really can’t imagine being so greedy that I’d refuse to give them back. It’s not like the OP hit the mother load and he’s going to retire on the proceeds of the sale anyway is it?
Finally, the reason I feel so strongly about this is because something similar happened to me. My father died while I was overseas and of all his possessions the only thing I really wanted was his gun. It was a cheap, no name .22 SAA pistol but it was my dad’s and I wanted to pass it on. Unfortunately, by the time I made it home it had vanished into a pawnshop in Tampa and I never saw it again.
So that’s where I’m at w/ it enjoy your thread and your Karma
Tim the student
Member
Cool find, congrats.
writerinmo
Member
If there were heirs, and I say 'IF', then my opinion is that the original owners didn't seem to want them to end up with the firearms, or they would have put it in the will or at the very least told them about it at some point. I would take them and enjoy them with an easy conscience, myself. If Grandson hasn't come looking for Grampa's guns, then there either isn't a Grandson or the two weren't on very friendly terms.
Not your obligation to find out either way, they came with the house.
Not your obligation to find out either way, they came with the house.
millertyme
Member
It looks like it falls under the mislaid property rules, meaning that if the rightful owners can be discovered it belongs to them. Now the issue is who is the "true owner". Since you've already sold a couple rifles, if the TO is determined to be someone else you'll be facing a civil suit, most likely for conversion, for which you'll have to pay fair market value for the rifles you sold. You could actually be the true owner, depending on how your state would interpret the definition of mislaid property. If it's yours then congratulations! If only everyone could be so lucky.
Whatever the case, good luck with it.
Whatever the case, good luck with it.
SpentCasing
Member
Finders keepers, i say! 
Great luck on the score, so many of those are on my bucket list. Sooo jealous^^
Great luck on the score, so many of those are on my bucket list. Sooo jealous^^
Jolly Rogers
Member
Don't see how stashing guns in the ceiling on a shelf specifically added to hold rifles can be construed as "mislaid"...
Joe
Joe
I agree with some of you that said if the heirs were into guns, don't you think they would be asking "What happened to Dad's guns ?".
Now, what do you think they are going to say if the OP contacts them and says "Hey, I found these guns. Do they mean anything to you. Would you like them back ?"
I would think if anybody were close to the old man, they would know about the hidden gun stash.
For all we know, it all went to a bunch of greedy nieces and nephews who never visited him anyway.
I say enjoy and congrats on the great find.
Now, just for informations sake, you might want to look into the estate's background and see who inherited it all.
Now, what do you think they are going to say if the OP contacts them and says "Hey, I found these guns. Do they mean anything to you. Would you like them back ?"
I would think if anybody were close to the old man, they would know about the hidden gun stash.
For all we know, it all went to a bunch of greedy nieces and nephews who never visited him anyway.
I say enjoy and congrats on the great find.
Now, just for informations sake, you might want to look into the estate's background and see who inherited it all.
kaferhaus
Member
A likely scenario in my opinion.
If you asked, they'd certainly have instant and total recall.... I wouldn't want to open that can of worms...
jogar80
Member
AWESOME!!!! SIMPLY AWESOME!!!
And anyone who says otherwise is either jealous or just a grump.
And anyone who says otherwise is either jealous or just a grump.
DinosaurJones
Member
Awesome!
That rocks man... now if you all will excuse me... i must go pull up all my floorboards & ceiling panels.
I can see both sides of the argument about ethics. I think I'd keep them personally.
That rocks man... now if you all will excuse me... i must go pull up all my floorboards & ceiling panels.
I can see both sides of the argument about ethics. I think I'd keep them personally.
Zombiphobia
Member
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- Oct 31, 2010
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- 646
If I bought a new house and found things such as family photo albums hidden away.. or jewelry.. I'd try to find out if the family(assuming there IS family) wanted them back.
I think it's selfish and unethical to keep or sell things that MAY hold sentimental value. Just because they are there does NOT mean that nobody looked for them.
A very cool find, though, but I think it's wrong to keep or sell them.
I think it's selfish and unethical to keep or sell things that MAY hold sentimental value. Just because they are there does NOT mean that nobody looked for them.
A very cool find, though, but I think it's wrong to keep or sell them.
Baba Louie
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CC,
SCORE!
Welcome to THR with a hella great first post. Treasure hunt and ethical moral dilema we all wish we found ourselves in... "what to do what to do"
I personally would've kept the Underwood but money talks.
Like others here, I too would have wrestled with the devil within to see if the heirs... well, I'd like to think I would... well, I'd sure be likin' that '03 and cut down '97 (get a bead put on it if it's missing one).
Join the CMP and buy some greek M2 ammo for your '03, and I think they have some Aguila .30carb relatively cheap.
http://www.thecmp.org/ammosales.htm
Range reports (lots of range reports) and more photos, (up close and personal) please.
SCORE!
Welcome to THR with a hella great first post. Treasure hunt and ethical moral dilema we all wish we found ourselves in... "what to do what to do"
I personally would've kept the Underwood but money talks.
Like others here, I too would have wrestled with the devil within to see if the heirs... well, I'd like to think I would... well, I'd sure be likin' that '03 and cut down '97 (get a bead put on it if it's missing one).
Join the CMP and buy some greek M2 ammo for your '03, and I think they have some Aguila .30carb relatively cheap.
http://www.thecmp.org/ammosales.htm
Range reports (lots of range reports) and more photos, (up close and personal) please.
Shadow 7D
Member
The guns were in the house, the house was sold by the heirs, and when a house is sold, usually there is a nice line, that goes either the previous owner gives over (confers) ownership of everything on the proper, or quit-claims everything on the property. it depends on the laws of the state, once you close, you own every thing property, only way those guns go back to the people who SOLD THEM is if you are a really nice guy who likes to return stuff he bought.
Dude, those guns are yours, just like the toilet, and the dust in the corner and the old rake left in the shed, and the gravel on the driveway. If they were sentimental, I'd sell them back at market price, just like you bought their house....
Dude, those guns are yours, just like the toilet, and the dust in the corner and the old rake left in the shed, and the gravel on the driveway. If they were sentimental, I'd sell them back at market price, just like you bought their house....
Last edited:
CeilingCat
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- Joined
- Nov 17, 2010
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Wow, this is quite an active forum! And thank you to all who greeted me.
First off I would like to state that if any of you lost a wallet stuffed with cash I would return it without a dime missing. (and I have) However in this case, the purchase paperwork states clearly that the house was sold as-is and any remaining items all become my property upon closing. That goes for appliances, 70's shag carpet and random items stashed around the house. I found a box of shotgun shells in the garage in the open. So it does not seem like they were really all that interested in looking for any guns if they left the ammunition.
So please, enough of the moral debate. We lost my grandfathers Luger in a yard sale years back, it was just an honest mistake and someone probably got it in a box for $5. Good find for them...
Lets see if I can fill in all of the questions....
As for the Dell's. There is far more than 3 in that pile... and yes I am ashamed a little bit..
As for owning guns prior. I have always been around them because of being a Boy Scout and my dad has many. But myself have never owned guns before.
I may not have gotten top dollar for the two I have sold so far. But the money is going back into the house in the form of a heat pump. And I too tend to get attached to things, so if I didn't sell them right away I may have gotten too attached. I did make sure they went to a good home.
I do plan on keeping at least a few and using them. I have far too many hobbies, many get neglected because of new ones that pop up. Like riding motorcycles. I dropped my Triumph this morning in the rain. I commute on that nearly every day, so it does take precedence when it comes to cash-flow.
I will try to get better pictures of each and provide reports in the respective forums about how they shoot. Because I plan on using each one. I believe in using things for their intended purpose. Thats why I drive the wheels off my cars/bikes.
First off I would like to state that if any of you lost a wallet stuffed with cash I would return it without a dime missing. (and I have) However in this case, the purchase paperwork states clearly that the house was sold as-is and any remaining items all become my property upon closing. That goes for appliances, 70's shag carpet and random items stashed around the house. I found a box of shotgun shells in the garage in the open. So it does not seem like they were really all that interested in looking for any guns if they left the ammunition.
So please, enough of the moral debate. We lost my grandfathers Luger in a yard sale years back, it was just an honest mistake and someone probably got it in a box for $5. Good find for them...
Lets see if I can fill in all of the questions....
As for the Dell's. There is far more than 3 in that pile... and yes I am ashamed a little bit..
As for owning guns prior. I have always been around them because of being a Boy Scout and my dad has many. But myself have never owned guns before.
I may not have gotten top dollar for the two I have sold so far. But the money is going back into the house in the form of a heat pump. And I too tend to get attached to things, so if I didn't sell them right away I may have gotten too attached. I did make sure they went to a good home.
I do plan on keeping at least a few and using them. I have far too many hobbies, many get neglected because of new ones that pop up. Like riding motorcycles. I dropped my Triumph this morning in the rain. I commute on that nearly every day, so it does take precedence when it comes to cash-flow.
I will try to get better pictures of each and provide reports in the respective forums about how they shoot. Because I plan on using each one. I believe in using things for their intended purpose. Thats why I drive the wheels off my cars/bikes.
AKElroy
Member
I think you should ask the heirs if they want the guns. In fact, I found a winning lottery ticket next to my mailbox today worth $20,000,000.00.
Does it belong to one of you guys?
Does it belong to one of you guys?
clutch
Contributing Member
CeilingCat,
You bought the property. Next week if you learn the original owner had a drum of tri-cloroethane in a shed that leaked into the ground water, you own that problem also.
If the heirs had concerns about 'hidden treasure' they would have torn the place apart or put a clause in the sales agreement.
My wild arsed guess is the former owner wasn't close to those that inherited his property.
My opinion is the arms are yours with a clear conscious.
Clutch
You bought the property. Next week if you learn the original owner had a drum of tri-cloroethane in a shed that leaked into the ground water, you own that problem also.
If the heirs had concerns about 'hidden treasure' they would have torn the place apart or put a clause in the sales agreement.
My wild arsed guess is the former owner wasn't close to those that inherited his property.
My opinion is the arms are yours with a clear conscious.
Clutch
NavyLCDR
member
NICS is only for FFLs to verify purchasers are not prohibited persons. NICS cannot be used by non-FFLs and NICS has absolutely nothing to do with the gun's history, only the buyer's history.
DC3-CVN-72
Member
I agree with clutch. I think your only problem would be if the man who died was keeping some or all of the guns for a friend who is on a trip and may not know his friend has died. either way that person knows where the house is, and if he showed up and could prove that the guns were his, I would give them back to him plus the money I got for the ones I had sold.
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