New Rules for CMP 1911's
- Thread starter Tirod
- Start date
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CMP has expressly stated they will look over a significant number of guns before they even attempt pricing, and that they will be priced per market. The market currently values GI 1911's about $500 more than a common police turn in like a Ruger P89 or S&W 3Gen. It's not going to be a firesale, the collectors have already jacked up asking prices and we aren't going to get around it.
BTW, new requirements are proof of citizenship, a notarized 2A, and no predated postmarks on the paper work. Early submissions will not be accepted. Along with that is the building of a completely separate and new web page - the CMP is creating a separate division to handle sales of FFL items compliant with ATF and Federal regulations. "CMP 1911" will be operating under it's own structure with no connection to the regular CMP's operations. Hence the requirement for completely new paperwork. They are specific there will be no crossover.
Here's a rub - "proof of citizenship" would seem to be your driver's license, right? Well, not so fast, not every state is compliant with the Feds on your license being acceptable under The REAL ID act. IE MO residents are constantly threatened by the Feds they can't get on Gov't Property with theirs as the two governments work thru compliance.
We need to define what are acceptable "proof of citizenship" documents and how authenticated they need to be. Some states issue drivers licenses to immigrants, and military ID is the same - you can be a foreign national and still serve. Neither is always bona fide ID of your citizenship, which is a major controversy when registering as a voter.
More questions . . .
BTW, new requirements are proof of citizenship, a notarized 2A, and no predated postmarks on the paper work. Early submissions will not be accepted. Along with that is the building of a completely separate and new web page - the CMP is creating a separate division to handle sales of FFL items compliant with ATF and Federal regulations. "CMP 1911" will be operating under it's own structure with no connection to the regular CMP's operations. Hence the requirement for completely new paperwork. They are specific there will be no crossover.
Here's a rub - "proof of citizenship" would seem to be your driver's license, right? Well, not so fast, not every state is compliant with the Feds on your license being acceptable under The REAL ID act. IE MO residents are constantly threatened by the Feds they can't get on Gov't Property with theirs as the two governments work thru compliance.
We need to define what are acceptable "proof of citizenship" documents and how authenticated they need to be. Some states issue drivers licenses to immigrants, and military ID is the same - you can be a foreign national and still serve. Neither is always bona fide ID of your citizenship, which is a major controversy when registering as a voter.
More questions . . .
JR24
Member
If the "shooter grade" guns are $500, I'm interested.
If they are $800-1000, no freaking way.
If they are $800-1000, no freaking way.
I'm thinking sending in a copy of your passport is asking a bit much.
As for "shooter" grade 1911's, those are selling for more than $500 on GB, so there is your market price. It does bring up a point - what constitutes shooter grade?
Well, it has to be considered still minimally functional, for collector purposes the NRA define that as "Fair" condition. Armsbid publishes this definition:
FAIR: Some major parts replaced; minor replacement parts may be required; metal rusted, may be lightly pitted all over, vigorously cleaned or re-blued; rounded edges of metal and wood; principal lettering, numerals and design on metal partly obliterated; wood scratched, bruised, cracked or repaired where broken; in fair working order or can be easily repaired and placed in working order.
The CMP has had a long term reputation for selling guns which need no repairs, so we will be getting a firearm that is potentially rebuilt a forth time in it's service life. There were three previous arsenal rebuilds of the 1911 fleet in it's history. As many here and in other threads on gun forums have stated, it pretty much sums up an average condition for 1911's handled late in their service life.
So, what does an NRA fair GI 1911 sell for? There is the market value. I previously suggested they have a collector premium of $500 over utilty, "shooter" value, when police turn ins are sold, those go for as little as $190, so I estimate the Fair grade CMP guns to sell for over $750. Some of us initially thought two years ago they would be cheap, but no, when "market value" is where they are going, then you can get to pick and choose buying one right now and not spend any more on gun auctions. With the lottery you don't get much selection, and I speculate that those with numbers past 6,000 the pickings will be slim, take it or leave it.
No idea if there are "no shows" that new numbers will be extended and issued, since the CMP has said about 8,000 will sell they might have a clue.
It still remains to be seen what constitutes proof of being a US citizen and no doubt some have already asked the CMP what they will accept. I fully expect some clarification will emerge. If the Secretary of the Army signs over ownership to the CMP, likely well after the holidays, and they then wait at least 150 days after that assessing and grading guns, we then won't see anything offered until June of 2018.
Not very many will still have tax refund money to blow on one of these.
As for "shooter" grade 1911's, those are selling for more than $500 on GB, so there is your market price. It does bring up a point - what constitutes shooter grade?
Well, it has to be considered still minimally functional, for collector purposes the NRA define that as "Fair" condition. Armsbid publishes this definition:
FAIR: Some major parts replaced; minor replacement parts may be required; metal rusted, may be lightly pitted all over, vigorously cleaned or re-blued; rounded edges of metal and wood; principal lettering, numerals and design on metal partly obliterated; wood scratched, bruised, cracked or repaired where broken; in fair working order or can be easily repaired and placed in working order.
The CMP has had a long term reputation for selling guns which need no repairs, so we will be getting a firearm that is potentially rebuilt a forth time in it's service life. There were three previous arsenal rebuilds of the 1911 fleet in it's history. As many here and in other threads on gun forums have stated, it pretty much sums up an average condition for 1911's handled late in their service life.
So, what does an NRA fair GI 1911 sell for? There is the market value. I previously suggested they have a collector premium of $500 over utilty, "shooter" value, when police turn ins are sold, those go for as little as $190, so I estimate the Fair grade CMP guns to sell for over $750. Some of us initially thought two years ago they would be cheap, but no, when "market value" is where they are going, then you can get to pick and choose buying one right now and not spend any more on gun auctions. With the lottery you don't get much selection, and I speculate that those with numbers past 6,000 the pickings will be slim, take it or leave it.
No idea if there are "no shows" that new numbers will be extended and issued, since the CMP has said about 8,000 will sell they might have a clue.
It still remains to be seen what constitutes proof of being a US citizen and no doubt some have already asked the CMP what they will accept. I fully expect some clarification will emerge. If the Secretary of the Army signs over ownership to the CMP, likely well after the holidays, and they then wait at least 150 days after that assessing and grading guns, we then won't see anything offered until June of 2018.
Not very many will still have tax refund money to blow on one of these.
I stay on the auto notification of this thread for entertainments value.
Here's MY take of the situation...
The CMP is gonna get guns that previously would have been most likely destroyed - thats a good thing.
The condition will be what it will be, nothing can be done of that.
They will price them as they see fit.
People will have their right to determine if the condition is good enough and price is cheap enough to purchase. If neither are good then no one HAS to purchase. Head to the shows and watch classifieds for a better deal.
Life is REALLY to short to worry about a gun.
Here's MY take of the situation...
The CMP is gonna get guns that previously would have been most likely destroyed - thats a good thing.
The condition will be what it will be, nothing can be done of that.
They will price them as they see fit.
People will have their right to determine if the condition is good enough and price is cheap enough to purchase. If neither are good then no one HAS to purchase. Head to the shows and watch classifieds for a better deal.
Life is REALLY to short to worry about a gun.
CoalTrain49
Member
It should be. My passport card (only good for ground border crossing) has my place of birth, and nationality on it. It takes less time to get one of those and is much cheaper than a regular passport. Best get started on it if you don't have a birth cert.
CoalTrain49
Member
A enhanced DL (Real ID) isn't proof of citizenship. All it proves is you are in the country legally (documented). Lots of people are here legally that aren't citizens. Lots of Canadians in my area here for extended stays that aren't citizens. If proof of citizenship is a requirement you might as well forget that approach. I think a passport might be a good thing to have.
lysanderxiii
Member
Your Birth Certificate always seems to work....
GooseGestapo
Member
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2003
- Messages
- 6,153
I consider myself very lucky.
I grew up in Anniston, Al, and now live only 75mi from CMP South, and 90mi from Talladega Marksmanship Park. (TMP)
I've bought two CMP guns. An M1 "CMP SPECIAL" and a 1943 Remington 03/A3 with ugly wood, but pristine metal, and a 0/.5 b/t erosion tag. With a two-groove barrel, it's a tack-driver. The M1 with its new Criterion barrel is likewise a first class shooter.
The qualifying process is a little tedious, but I took all documentation with me on my first trip to the store. Process was little different than purchasing a new gun from local gun shop. I had choice of paying 10% sales tax or taking chance with being home when UPS runs. I paid the 10%.
Neither gun was cheap, but I feel I got my money's worth.
If you want a shooter, get a commercial M1911. I for one won't be looking to get a 1911. I already have an M1911 I seldom shoot.
I shoot at, and enjoy the TMP, and feel the CMP is genuinely trying to fulfill it's chartered mission. Having to have the pistols sent to a FFL is a non-starter for me. My local FFL's won't release a signed copy and will only fax/e-mail copies to another FFL, and then for a fee ($25-up).
I was recently at TMP for the Talladega 600 matches. I personally witnessed Mark Johnson address the pricing on the soon to come (2018) M1911's. Like what has been previously stated, they won't be cheap. Expect them to "start" at $750-$900 and go where the auctions take the collectibles.
I would imagine that a USAF "Lackland" cut and weld progenitor to the Colt Officers Model will go for $XXXXX. But I'd bet they'll never get any of those. If they could talk, they couldn't, it would still be classified!!!
My older brother carried one while he was an OSI investigator. Issued ammo was Hornady contract 230gr TC-FMJ at 855fps from the ~3" bbl. He was an AF rifle/pistol team competitor and still considered it a beast to qualify with. But he was VERY fond of it. These had an impeccable service record but most instances of use are still classified. MUCH better than the concurrent issue Model 36 S&W Chiefs Special. Bet we don't see any of that ammo, either!
I grew up in Anniston, Al, and now live only 75mi from CMP South, and 90mi from Talladega Marksmanship Park. (TMP)
I've bought two CMP guns. An M1 "CMP SPECIAL" and a 1943 Remington 03/A3 with ugly wood, but pristine metal, and a 0/.5 b/t erosion tag. With a two-groove barrel, it's a tack-driver. The M1 with its new Criterion barrel is likewise a first class shooter.
The qualifying process is a little tedious, but I took all documentation with me on my first trip to the store. Process was little different than purchasing a new gun from local gun shop. I had choice of paying 10% sales tax or taking chance with being home when UPS runs. I paid the 10%.
Neither gun was cheap, but I feel I got my money's worth.
If you want a shooter, get a commercial M1911. I for one won't be looking to get a 1911. I already have an M1911 I seldom shoot.
I shoot at, and enjoy the TMP, and feel the CMP is genuinely trying to fulfill it's chartered mission. Having to have the pistols sent to a FFL is a non-starter for me. My local FFL's won't release a signed copy and will only fax/e-mail copies to another FFL, and then for a fee ($25-up).
I was recently at TMP for the Talladega 600 matches. I personally witnessed Mark Johnson address the pricing on the soon to come (2018) M1911's. Like what has been previously stated, they won't be cheap. Expect them to "start" at $750-$900 and go where the auctions take the collectibles.
I would imagine that a USAF "Lackland" cut and weld progenitor to the Colt Officers Model will go for $XXXXX. But I'd bet they'll never get any of those. If they could talk, they couldn't, it would still be classified!!!
My older brother carried one while he was an OSI investigator. Issued ammo was Hornady contract 230gr TC-FMJ at 855fps from the ~3" bbl. He was an AF rifle/pistol team competitor and still considered it a beast to qualify with. But he was VERY fond of it. These had an impeccable service record but most instances of use are still classified. MUCH better than the concurrent issue Model 36 S&W Chiefs Special. Bet we don't see any of that ammo, either!
Jackal
Member
When CMP Garands were $500, they were interesting. $1k for a beat up 1911? No thanks.
Elkins45
Member
How about $630 for one? That’s what I paid for a really excellent field grade Springfield last fall. I consider it quite a bargain.
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