New to reloading: .44 magnum
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Again as everyone else has stated use a good jacketed bullet. Yes berry's are affordable but lack a crimp groove or cannelure at least all the 38spl I have do. I tried giving berrys 38spl a light roll crimp which 44mag NEEDS and had to pull some and it actually cracked the plating on them. It would only make sense to me but cracked plating would trash accuracy. 240GR xtp, IMR 4227, CCI LPP and be done with it until you have some experience and then try coated lead. XTP bullets can be found on sale and it will still be waaaay cheaper than paying for factory. I shoot 44mag in a rifle and its way cheaper then buying factory rounds and still cheap enough that I punch paper with 240gr xtp. less headache for just a couple $ more. Check Midwayusa.com they always have some sort of 240gr bullet on sale. As far as velocities with plated and not roll crimping them you would have to taper crimp them to iron out the flare and even at your intended velocities it might cause some issues. Nothing like locking up a cylinder and having to beat the bullet back in or have the recoil seat the bullet deeper and make pressure go up. I tried hot rodding my little 38spl +p snub nose with berrys plated and a heavy dose of HP38 and almost looked like the bullets went in crooked from a distance and I was so worried about it not holding the bullet enough I backed off to powder puff loads.
I like IMR 4227 for your application cause it pretty much fills the case, recoil isn't bad, easy to find and pretty accurate IMO. HP38 is cheap and so are the others and while I was in your same boat a few years ago when I wanted to do everything as cheaply as possible I spent more money in the long run. Cheap rifle bullets, cheap powder, cheap primers all to save a few $ and it was such a headache. I went through 2lbs of H335 2-300 v max bullets, SP, FMJ all the get results a pound of benchmark and 55gr v max got me. I spent $5 more on powder and a few $ more on bullets to have a more enjoyable experience. I could easily buy lead for my more expensive calibers but my thoughts are its still cheaper then factory to load jacketed and I know its safe and no issues. I wouldn't want to waste money on cheap primers, powder and bullets only to keep buying the cheap stuff to get what I was happy with when I could spend $5 and be happy.
armarsh
Member
Lots of good advice already. I like H110 (a ball powder) for 44 mag so I use a magnum primer. In the past I used 2400 with a standard primer.
I have no info for plated because all my 44 mag loads are on the hot side.
I have no info for plated because all my 44 mag loads are on the hot side.
I just started loading 44 mag , I started with 8.5gr unique and 240 gr swc acme coated , no leading and little smoke made for a accurate mild load ,
Just for punching paper it works for me and tame enough for the kid to shoot,
When I had my 357 mag I liked 2400 for more full tilt loads,
I would consider trailboss for soft loads , unique for midrange loads and 2400 for full power loads and I like the SWC type projectiles, but that’s just for me and my opinion,
Just for punching paper it works for me and tame enough for the kid to shoot,
When I had my 357 mag I liked 2400 for more full tilt loads,
I would consider trailboss for soft loads , unique for midrange loads and 2400 for full power loads and I like the SWC type projectiles, but that’s just for me and my opinion,
Surely you jest?
OP
OP
sequins
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Nope, no jest. I enjoy firing extremely raucous rounds that rattle my teeth and point the barrel of my revolver at the ceiling no matter how hard I hold on. I particularly like when the range "goes cold" until I've finished my cylinder, that's how I can tell I got some really good rounds. Often when I am using the heavy magnum rounds people at my range will hold their fire until I finish my cylinder because the report is so disruptive they flinch on my behalf from three lanes over. I am only 29 years old and I'm sure as I get older I will have different opinions, but I like guns because they are awesome and nothing is more awesome than a stout magnum load. Every fourth of July I ever enjoyed as a child pales in comparison to a cylinder of heavy, heavy, heavy .44 magnum. I find I can fire 100 rounds of .22lr and get as much enjoyment as just 10 rounds of heavy 44 magnum.
The best rounds I ever fired in .44 magnum were some Buffalo Bore rounds that had a disclaimer saying they were going to have to stop selling them if people kept shooting them through "unapproved" (read: Not a Ruger) firearms. I think SAAMI would blow a gasket if they got ahold of those rounds! I was firing those at a range that did allow lead rounds and every shooter on the line wanted a look at what I was firing, and a couple of kids begged me to let them shoot a round (I insisted they shoot my "regular" federal .44 magnum). I've never had strangers or kids get so excited over my guns and IMO heavy .44 is just magic, pure magic.
Now, I share those anecdotes to express my love of .44 magnum and help people understand where my head is at on the .44 magnum, I obviously want to load it hot. I also don't want to scare you all and understand that reloading is enjoyable but also dangerous and a single mistake might be the end of my shooting career. I take safety extremely seriously and I will of course exercise the utmost care in all of my reloading endeavors. I will not be starting at max, or near max, or deviating from published data in any way as I get started. Much like cooking where a master chef can easily make substitutions, I think a skilled reloader can probably get a pretty good feel for how well things are going to go but a rookie might be in trouble- Rather than a ruined meal the stakes are a ruined life and I take that quite seriously. I have no experience and I fully intend to start with low-medium loads that are safely in the middle, above start grain but well below max grain to ensure I have the greatest possible safety margin.
Ultimately though cost is a big factor for me, and there is just no way I'm going to be loading thousands of Hornady XTP rounds for target practice. Lead, plated, or coated are 100% what I'm going to wind up using and my thought is that I might as well start learning how to load these whizz-bang Plated/Coated rounds I can use at my indoor range sooner than later. 100 XTP rounds to learn the mechanics of my press makes sense, 1,000 or even just 500 simply doesn't make as much sense. I need to figure out an economical bullet I can load well! From what I'm gathering in this thread it seems that by carefully examining pressure signs I can substitute primers of the proper type, and I have manuals to indicate where to get started safely with regards to powder gn charge weights, but I'm still at an impasse regarding the bullets themselves...
Thanks again to everyone who has posted I have a lot to chew on and will be considering this thread intensely for the next few days as I prepare to make my first bullets order. Yes, this first order is going to include some premium quality, and premium priced, XTP bullets.
29...
I wish you luck, but please be overly cautious. You can have fun with less than full power, on the edge, hot loads.
Find a reloading mentor local to you and/or a NRA metallic reloading class.
Your outlook scares me a little, honestly.
I like shooting loud, hot loads as much as anybody (recently took up loading/shooting .22TCM) and regularly shoot .44mag. I’m 60. I want you to make it to 60 and past. Seriously.
I wish you luck, but please be overly cautious. You can have fun with less than full power, on the edge, hot loads.
Find a reloading mentor local to you and/or a NRA metallic reloading class.
Your outlook scares me a little, honestly.
I like shooting loud, hot loads as much as anybody (recently took up loading/shooting .22TCM) and regularly shoot .44mag. I’m 60. I want you to make it to 60 and past. Seriously.
you Need a bigger gun.
454 casul this is a very violent round
480 Ruger loads start where 44 tops out. But mine pushes more than snaps.
460 or 500 s&w. These 2 may not give you the feel you want. The gun itself is designed to be extremely powerful but take some force off the shooter.
454 casul this is a very violent round
480 Ruger loads start where 44 tops out. But mine pushes more than snaps.
460 or 500 s&w. These 2 may not give you the feel you want. The gun itself is designed to be extremely powerful but take some force off the shooter.
RealGun
Member
I don't know how you would shoot indoors at full power and avoid significant bullet expense. Lead and plated have limits and are not usually associated with full power loads or shown in any everyman data. You could use gas checks but that is a relatively expensive bullet.
What I have been using is Magtech SJSP, but if I shot that load a lot I would be casting with a gas check mold.
Using plated is ill advised, because there is no crimp groove, which I would definitely want in a powerful load. They would work okay in a mild practice load and probably be a good candidate for use at an indoor range that doesn't allow bare lead.
I know what you mean about being tickled by people's reaction to the report of your gun, but doing that indoors is just rude beyond a couple rounds, if at all.
Yep. Recoil junkies need things like the .454, .460, .500 etc.
I gotta tell you I watched a guy shooting a 460 recently. Definitely impressive, even with that 5 lb. revolver. The flame reminded me of a Mosin M44 carbine.
Varminterror
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It's quite unlikely the savings will be "extraordinary," and frankly, you may not save a dime for a very, very long time, if ever. One thing I can say for sure, if you start with bare bones essentials, you'll never save a dime, as you'll be upgrading before your ROI ever pays back on the original junk equipment. You should have somewhere between $500-1500 into your gear for higher volume reloading, and to be honest, it really just doesn't cost that much to shoot 44mag, so you have to shoot a LOT of it to get any payback. Be sure you run the numbers before you fool yourself. I started reloading thinking I would save money, but I have somewhere around $25,000 wrapped up in my reloading gear...
This is another one where you might find yourself disappointed. It isn't nearly as hard as it used to be to find very accurate, reasonably priced ammunition on the open market these days. Especially considering the 44mag, the inherent precision we're looking at really levels the playing field for factory and handloaded ammunition, especially if the handloads are produced on low cost reloading gear.
Primer selection is important, but if a guy works up his loads, it's not difficult to find a combination of powder and primer which isn't in the manual. You do need to understand a bit about your primers and your powder choice. Ball powders and "magnum" powders like H110 will typically prefer a magnum primer, as one example. Most manuals will note specific powders which require magnum primers, or will note the entire cartridge section used magnum primers. To equally confuse things, Winchester Large Pistol primers aren't listed as magnum primers, but they effectively ARE magnum primers, so many guys will favor WLP's for their magnum cartridges so they don't have to have standard and magnum primers on the shelf.
Bullet selection is, indeed, critical. Generic manuals like the Lee are great, but what you're seeing here is one particular pitfall. Not all bullets are created equally, for example, the Hornady XTP's are a very "non-standard" bullet, with greater bearing surface than most typical JHP's in 44cal, so you'll often find the charge data being very different for them. Since the bullets don't have the same profile, they don't have the same length, so the seating depths and Cartridge OverAll Lengths are all wrong - which can result in a VERY different pressure maximum if the wrong data is used.
- Is "Copper plated" it's own thing, or should I be using lead loads, or "light" jacketed loads, or what? I can get copper jacketed rounds (diameter .429) or exposed lead rounds (diameter .431), and then just to make things interesting I can get copper plated rounds which have special loads in some manuals, no specific loads in others, and which are advised for "low velocity" from their manufacturer
Plated is its own thing, but largely, lead bullet data can be used. You certainly don't want to load plated bullets over 1,200fps for most brands, even slower for some brands. The manufacturers typically will provide this velocity limit. It's also not wise to try to lump them into some category like "light jacketed," because not all powders respond the same - there are some powders in which the lead and jacketed bullet data are almost identical, whereas for other powders, there's a substantial gap between the lead and jacketed data.
Pick your bullets to match your throats. Jacketed bullets typically need to be matched for size, since they won't self-size as easily, but if you want to avoid leading or fouling, you'll want any of them to match well. Don't work yourself up too much here - all Hornady bullets are .430, some brands are all .429"... Try a few in your revolver, watch for fouling and pressure, test the fit in the throats... If they fit, great, if not, then use a different bullet.
One load you might want to try - 240grn Hornady XTP rolled hard in the cannelure over 23.5grn H110/W296 on an LPM or WLP. If your powder charge and crimp tension are remotely consistently, but this doesn't shoot well in your 44mag, there's probably something wrong with your rifle or revolver.
For starters, nobody is going to be impressed by someone shooting a 'hot' .44 Magnum. Maybe if this was 1956, but it isn't.
The only impression you will make on others is that you are a newby and will be off to another 'look-at-me' hobby in six months.
The only impression you will make on others is that you are a newby and will be off to another 'look-at-me' hobby in six months.
Damon555
Member
That's what I say as I'm handing them my Super Blackhawk Hunter loaded with 320 grain bullets and a stiff dose of H110.......mere childs play. Their eyes always light up after they pull the trigger........
I think a guy can make his money back on equipment very fast if he only buys the level he needs.
While it was cold this week I cast/loaded a couple hundred 480 Ruger and 44 mag. All with brass so old I can’t tell you how many loadings are in it. So the equipment and brass are long depreciated, cast bullets are free (tire weights I get free)
3,2 cents for a primer (replacement cost)
5.5 cents for powder (replacement cost, all my powder is over 5 years old)
Say .10 for the brass. Pretty generous
Say .05 for equipment that’s way too much for all my auction and estate sale equipment.
That’s .24 a round.
I could probably pay myself a decent wage for the remainder of what the ammo is worth.
While it was cold this week I cast/loaded a couple hundred 480 Ruger and 44 mag. All with brass so old I can’t tell you how many loadings are in it. So the equipment and brass are long depreciated, cast bullets are free (tire weights I get free)
3,2 cents for a primer (replacement cost)
5.5 cents for powder (replacement cost, all my powder is over 5 years old)
Say .10 for the brass. Pretty generous
Say .05 for equipment that’s way too much for all my auction and estate sale equipment.
That’s .24 a round.
I could probably pay myself a decent wage for the remainder of what the ammo is worth.
My concern is the OP started off with questions about primers, plated bullets, saving money, and then switched to wanted max or more loads to impress the other lane. Much of the advise given, mine included, was off base for a newbie looking to load hot fire breathing loads.
RealGun
Member
OP moved the goal posts at post #25.
Toprudder
Member
I've tried coated, plated, and jacketed bullets in my 44mag.
With the coated bullets, I was getting some leading. Not bad, but enough to have to scrub the barrel more than I wanted to. (On a side note, I found that I really like using Chore-Boy wrapped on at bronze brush, and use plenty of Kroil as a solvent.)
With the plated (even with mid-range loads) I was getting copper and lead deposits in the first couple inches of the barrel. These were Xtreme plated 240gn bullets. I was no where near the max velocity they list for those bullets (1200fps) so it is not a velocity issue, I believe it is a pressure/heat issue. With a revolver, there is a significant jump from the cylinder to the lands in the barrel, so I think there is significant "jetting" of the hot gasses around the bullet until it hits the lands and seals. I think the heat and pressure together are possibly causing the copper and underlying lead to melt enough to have small amounts come off the bullet. At least that is my theory.
I have had great luck with jacketed bullets, specifically the Hornady 240 XTP. Very accurate for me.
In searching for less expensive jacketed bullets, I found where Zero makes a 240 JSP. The go for about $0.14 each. I intend to try those when I get a chance.
With the coated bullets, I was getting some leading. Not bad, but enough to have to scrub the barrel more than I wanted to. (On a side note, I found that I really like using Chore-Boy wrapped on at bronze brush, and use plenty of Kroil as a solvent.)
With the plated (even with mid-range loads) I was getting copper and lead deposits in the first couple inches of the barrel. These were Xtreme plated 240gn bullets. I was no where near the max velocity they list for those bullets (1200fps) so it is not a velocity issue, I believe it is a pressure/heat issue. With a revolver, there is a significant jump from the cylinder to the lands in the barrel, so I think there is significant "jetting" of the hot gasses around the bullet until it hits the lands and seals. I think the heat and pressure together are possibly causing the copper and underlying lead to melt enough to have small amounts come off the bullet. At least that is my theory.
I have had great luck with jacketed bullets, specifically the Hornady 240 XTP. Very accurate for me.
In searching for less expensive jacketed bullets, I found where Zero makes a 240 JSP. The go for about $0.14 each. I intend to try those when I get a chance.
Yea coated bullets are a bad fad, the coating is a crutch for proper cast load development. Once you’ve scraped powder coat out of a rifles bore you’ll never go back.
I jumped all over that band wagon when it first started, I had just hit heavy into casting and already had powder coating equipment.
I quickly found it’s quicker to work up good loads, alloy and sizing than coat bullets.
So I moved on to high velocity cast in rifles to learn the hard way it doesn’t work and it makes a huge mess.
The only use I have for them is shooting through a non serviceable suppressor.
I jumped all over that band wagon when it first started, I had just hit heavy into casting and already had powder coating equipment.
I quickly found it’s quicker to work up good loads, alloy and sizing than coat bullets.
So I moved on to high velocity cast in rifles to learn the hard way it doesn’t work and it makes a huge mess.
The only use I have for them is shooting through a non serviceable suppressor.
I don’t think powder coating is the same as Hitek polymer coated. MBC sells polymer coated as do other vendors: SNS, Bayou, Everglades, etc...
I have never shot powdercoated. I have shot polymer coated .44mag out of my SBH @ 1400+ velocity with no leading or coating residue. There was a little powder residue in the grooves.
I’m just a single example. Others may have different results.
I have never shot powdercoated. I have shot polymer coated .44mag out of my SBH @ 1400+ velocity with no leading or coating residue. There was a little powder residue in the grooves.
I’m just a single example. Others may have different results.
thomas15
Member
OTOH there have been several threads on the S&W forum where posters cannot understand why someone with a .357 Magnum would only shoot light 38 Special loads. I guess we all have our reasons why we enjoy our firearms. From the magnum perspective I seriously doubt that many shooters (except for the manly honcho) shoots very many high power 44 magnum handgun loads at 1 sitting.
OP
OP
sequins
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I'd never really considered that other people might think I was a jerk. I've mostly had good experiences with people who saw my guns. My indoor range is frequented by people who fire AR-15s with muzzle breaks, it's a highly urban area and everyone fires everything indoors and just doubles up on hearing protection.
I think I covered too much ground in my post- I want to know more about each bullet type so I can use the right type for the right loads. I plan to use the cheapest bullets that will fire extremely accurately and reliably for a given load though, so while I could load expensive Hornady XTP rounds at nearly any powder level that really seems like a waste when I could save them for the wrist wreckers and use Berry's for target shooting with light loads assuming the Berry's were very accurate and reliable at light target loads.
I also will likely not be shooting high volume of max load ammunition. As with my 9mm it's usually a magazine of the "defense ammunition" and then it's plinking ammo for the rest of the trip. I will probably do similar and fire a cylinder or three of the "heavy loads" and then switch over to some nice fun light target loads.
I just took a look on ammoseek and the best I can do on ammo, before shipping, is 52 cents a round for Fiocchi .44 mag. I can get Berry's for 13 cents a round, primers for 3 cents a round, and maybe a cent of powder per round? That comes to 0.17/rd for a Berry's load and a 0.35 cent difference. I am buying what I perceive to be rather expensive equipment and it will all be free with the savings of just 2,500 rounds loaded. In other words, 2,500 rounds of .44 magnum loaded with Berry's will save me $875 dollars. (Forster Co-Ax, Redding 10X powder measure, Redding Competition Pro die set, Mitutoyo calipers, Mitutoyo micrometer, MyWeigh scale). In my book that's extraordinary savings as I'll load that many rounds in my first year!
Well call me names if you must but I personally think I might top out on .44 magnum in terms of how wild I can take it and I'm not ashamed of that at all. A lot of my friends don't really like going past .357 magnum, and my girlfriend is having about as much fun as she can handle with .38spl+P. I would love to try a bigger bore than the .44 but those Buffalo Bore rounds I spoke of earlier were really about as much as I could handle. I was loving firing them, but I only fired a dozen and I had had as much fun as I cared to have. Maybe a .454 would be something I'd appreciate but before I buy one I'd certainly need to try firing it first to see if I could handle it.
Your advice was excellent sir. I wanted to know more about types of bullets, bullet and primer combinations, and just generally enough to get started. You, and the other fine posters of this forum, have given me that. I want to get into reloading with safety in mind and I want to load light to medium loads while I learn what I'm doing.
Everyone seems to be taking my admittedly over the top first paragraphs in #25 to mean that I want to load my first round with a compressed charge of titegroup, when just a few paragraphs later I emphasize my appreciation of safety and caution, and my plan of starting really low and learning what I'm doing on my way to the "good stuff".
I certainly did not, although I guess I understand why everyone feels that way. In the very first post I commented on my desire to save money, and load for heavier and more accurate rounds. I made post #25 in response to all the advice I had been given around just playing it safe and easy and buying the most expensive factory jacketed rounds for easy loading.That advice doesn't really jive with my game plan of having fun while saving money.
Now that I know enough of the basic bullet information to get started on reloading the light loads I thought by elaborating on my goals a bit I could hopefully get some additional advice. Perhaps I should just make another topic later when I get to that point. I'm truly sorry for scaring anyone or for moving the goalposts in a way that confused anyone.
I really want to emphasize two things to everyone:
The first is that I take safety more seriously than many of my peers and I bought gear that is an entire decimal more precise than the margin of safety I plan to operate at. I am loading to the tenth of a grain, but my scale is accurate to a hundredth. I am loading to the thousandth of an inch, but my calipers are accurate to a ten-thousandth. I am going to be using a micrometer to check the concentricity of my ammunition. I will be firing a sampling of every batch of ammunition I ever produce over a chronograph and checking the reading before I fire a second round of any sample. I will be taking safety so seriously that many will think I'm being overly careful and wasting time. I want to emphasize this point because the idea that anyone is concerned for my safety troubles me and I do not want to worry any of you. Your advice is extremely valuable to me and in return I promise fastidious attention to detail and rigorous safety precautions.
The other thing is that the compressed load of titegroup was a JOKE and I would never, ever exceed the lowest maximum load I found in any of my manuals. I will always be loading based on reputable published data.
So, what does it all mean for yours truly? Well my current plan is to make an order for bullets when I get paid on Friday and I will be buying 100 Hornady XTP 240gr, 100 Berry's Plated 240gr, and 100 240gr "Keith" bullets coated in polymer to try this coated thing out. Nothing I load will exceed the half-way point between minimum and maximum for the published recipe I am using for this starting batch.
Thanks to EVERYONE who has posted and when all my equipment arrives I will be making additional posts to show everything off and give you an inside glimpse into how a millennial who has never reloaded in his life approaches the hobby many of you enjoy. If anyone has additional thoughts on bullets or .44 loading in general please add to this thread as I will be reading any reply with interest, even the negative ones.
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