New to reloading: .44 magnum

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Those are the EXACT .431 diameter jacketed rounds that prompted me to make this thread Walkalong. The link I posted in #1 to the Everglades Ammunition page is them re-selling those rounds, but in smaller lots (and at a very large markup- but I don't think it's a good idea to buy a thousand before I've loaded a single one, is it?)

Do most people buy 100 rounds and then go back for a few thousand, or do you guys just take your chances and buy a thousand to maximize the savings?
 
Do most people buy 100 rounds and then go back for a few thousand, or do you guys just take your chances and buy a thousand to maximize the savings?

I have done both, but it is smarter to try a few first.

The ones at Everglades do look like Zeros.
 
maybe a cent of powder per round?

$29 per pound for H110 locally, won't even worry about the tax... $29/lb / 7000grn/lb * 23.5grn/load = ~10c/load, not a penny per round.

Reloading does pay back if you're shooting a lot, but I can tell you, if you're loading 5,000rnds a year in 44mag, I'll be quite surprised if you don't end up spending a lot more within a year on your gear. You shoot 44mag about as fast as I do, I have a progressive press set up dedicated for it. I'd rather light my shirt on fire than sit at a single stage for that many rounds of 44mag again (25yrs+ years ago I gave up on a single stage for high volume handgun rounds). If you can get away with $500ish and stick with it, great. I certainly never set out to spend what I have on my reloading set up, but here I am. Always some idea for how to streamline that, or improve precision on this, automate that... Mine's been over a thousand dollars a year average in hard assets, let alone consumables...

Sure, I get 44mag for 35 cents a round instead of a buck, and sure I load 300wby for about a buck per shot instead of $3.50... At best, all I've done is shoot more for the same money, or more likely, I "gateway drugged" myself deeper into the shooting addiction, so I spent a lot more than I would have if I'd have let ammo stay cost prohibitive.... I'm currently reloading 41 different cartridges, and have dies (and load data, and some components) for about as many more... "Save money by reloading..." Yeah, sure, that's rich!!!
 
5,000 rounds per year = <100 rounds per week. Two loading blocks of 50.
 
If you look over on the left side menu, they also list 500 piece quantities.
Missed that, Thanks.

I see it now, little teenie writing. Dang old eyes, maybe it is time to go from 1.25 to 1.5x readers. :)

Goes up 2 cents a bullet though.
 
Missed that, Thanks.

I see it now, little teenie writing. Dang old eyes, maybe it is time to go from 1.25 to 1.5x readers. :)

Goes up 2 cents a bullet though.
I know how you feel on regarding the "old eyes".

Yeah, price goes up, but I just want to try them out. At the rate I shoot 44mag, they should last me a while anyway.
 
XTP spec is .430. Montana Gold says .429. I don't get the Zeros at .431 and would buy something else.
 
I'm up over two dozen .44's and an even dozen .44Mag's. It and the .44Spl are the cartridges I learned to handload with. One might say it's my favorite cartridge but I have a pile of .45's too. I'm going to try to simplify your process. First, forget about making noise and maximum loads. Forget about nitpicking diameter, anything from .429-.431" will do, just don't grab any .427" .44-40 bullets. What you need to do first is learn the process. Get a handful of loading manuals and read them. Find a good mid-range recipe you want to try. I'd recommend something with a moderate powder like Unique, get a pound of it and a box of standard primers. Cast bullets are fine and what I'd recommend. I've never bothered with plated bullets and jacketed bullets are too expensive for plinking ammo. Some folks seem to be afraid of cast bullets and there's no reason for it. Get 100rds of brass, I always use Starline if available. Follow your manual and load 100rds. You'll learn more in that first 100rds than you ever will reading about it on the internet. Shoot them. Repeat. Get a few hundred rounds under your belt before you start trying to load maximum loads or nitpick about primers.
 
There is only one proper bullet for a 44 mag. That’s a Kieth style LSWC with a gas check. I’m baffled why anything else exists.
The Keith is a great bullet but we've learned a lot since it was designed. All these big bore "magnum" cartridges do their best work with heavy bullets and they are quite useful when game is larger than deer.
 
Ultimately though cost is a big factor for me, and there is just no way I'm going to be loading thousands of Hornady XTP rounds for target practice. Lead, plated, or coated are 100% what I'm going to wind up using and my thought is that I might as well start learning how to load these whizz-bang Plated/Coated rounds I can use at my indoor range sooner than later.

[...]

[T]his first order is going to include some premium quality, and premium priced, XTP bullets.

To address the silliness here... The Hornady XTP is NOT a premium bullet. It's one of the cheapest jacketed bullets on the market. Many of us use the XTP as a low cost option for full-load practice rounds.

Here's the problem.... You're wanting "hot" magnum loads, but you're planning to do it with plated, lead, or coated bullets... That doesn't work. Not all "lead" bullets are created equally, and if you want "hot" loads in the 44mag, proper "lead," as in hard cast bullets, will cost more than the Hornady XTP. You cannot push cheap lead or plated bullets as hard as hard cast, gas checked, or jacketed bullets. "Hot" 44magnum loads will be running 1300-1600fps, depending upon your bullet weight, which exceeds any lead or plated bullet maximum. Even with coated bullets, you'll need to run a gas check... You need to read and comprehend what folks are telling you, and what is printed in your manuals. Top end 44mag loads and cheap lead or plated bullets just don't mix. What you're describing is kinda like buying a high performance sports car with a premium gasoline based engine, then saying you're going to run diesel because diesel engines get better mileage...

And frankly, as someone who loads and shoots around 6,000-7,500 XTP's every year, if you're looking at the XTP as an "expensive" bullet, then the 44mag isn't for you. Check out a Swift A-Frame, Leheigh Penetrator, or Belt Mountain Punch bullet.... THOSE are premium quality, premium priced bullets. If you want to make big noise with big recoil, you can't run the cheapest of the cheap bullets hard enough to get there. You CAN run cheap bullets - the XTP's...

I enjoy firing extremely raucous rounds that rattle my teeth and point the barrel of my revolver at the ceiling no matter how hard I hold on. I particularly like when the range "goes cold" until I've finished my cylinder, that's how I can tell I got some really good rounds. Often when I am using the heavy magnum rounds people at my range will hold their fire until I finish my cylinder because the report is so disruptive they flinch on my behalf from three lanes over. I am only 29 years old and I'm sure as I get older I will have different opinions, but I like guns because they are awesome and nothing is more awesome than a stout magnum load.

[...]

The best rounds I ever fired in .44 magnum were some Buffalo Bore rounds that had a disclaimer saying they were going to have to stop selling them if people kept shooting them through "unapproved" (read: Not a Ruger) firearms. I think SAAMI would blow a gasket if they got ahold of those rounds! I was firing those at a range that did allow lead rounds and every shooter on the line wanted a look at what I was firing, and a couple of kids begged me to let them shoot a round (I insisted they shoot my "regular" federal .44 magnum). I've never had strangers or kids get so excited over my guns and IMO heavy .44 is just magic, pure magic.

As foolish as all of these statements sound - because they are such - in my experience, there are a lot of folks out there like you. It's no different than the guy who buys a bright red Ford Mustang with racing stripes and mag wheels, but in a V6 so it costs less and gets good gas mileage. It sure looks cool until it actually gets on the line against some thing with some money spent under the hood or someone who has actually spent time behind the wheel takes a look. I've taken personal joy when someone like you tries to show off at the range with a 44mag, I'll point out the shotgun patterns on their target, and (loudly) offer advice on how to control their revolver so each shot doesn't leave their "barrel pointing towards the ceiling," then I'll pull out my 454C, 475L, 460, or 500 and demonstrate what REAL power AND precision looks like. Even better at an outdoor range where I can bring out something exotic like a 45-70 BFR or 300WSM XP100 - you just THINK your 44mag barks fire... The look on their face when someone literally steals their thunder is priceless. Personally, I DON'T like to be needlessly disruptive on the range, I try to go to the range on off-peak hours, and I'll take along a few options to shoot. If there are too many folks on the range, I don't bring out my magnums or super magnums. Sometimes a guy can't avoid it, and I do end up shooting a big boomer on the range with others around, but what you're describing is a lot like walking into the post office and singing as loudly as you can, just for the attention. As a Millennial myself, I can't relate to flash mobs any more than I can relate to the compulsion to be the loudest gun on the range... But kids do it every day... My grandpa used to tell me when I was a kid - people can tell when you're trying to be cool, and it's not cool...

People like you are everywhere, frankly, that's why we have things like V12 Vipers, loud motorcycle pipes, Ruger Alaskans, and the 500 S&W... It's not all bad, and it's nothing new. There have been people like you in every generation, but unfortunately for all of us, only the stereotypical example of the Millennial generation is particularly "proud" to admit it publicly. I guess I'm in favor of self-awareness, if nothing else...

I'll also comment, SAAMI doesn't give two ****s about Buffalo Bore ammunition. SAAMI is a yardstick, not a governing body. They don't tell anyone how to load their ammunition, they just hold the bar and say, "if you're under the bar, we'll give you a sticker." Submission to SAAMI is 100% voluntary, and compliance is NOT obligated. Buffalo Bore's warning label is to cover their ass and make shooters aware. They have no liability and will not go out of business or stop selling their products as a result of someone shooting their ammo in a non-approved firearms.
 
Here's the problem.... You're wanting "hot" magnum loads, but you're planning to do it with plated, lead, or coated bullets... That doesn't work. Not all "lead" bullets are created equally, and if you want "hot" loads in the 44mag, proper "lead," as in hard cast bullets, will cost more than the Hornady XTP.

I was quite content to watch this thread quietly and refrain from making any comments as a novice reloader. But perhaps you could address something for me here.

I'm using SNS Casting 240gr polymer coated LSWCs, and I've been using Lyman 50th data for A2400. I finally worked up to the maximum powder charge in their data, of 20.6gr. I can't remember the velocity they listed for a 5.5" barrel, but I think it was somewhere in the mid 1300s. Is this not what you would consider "hot"? Or should I not be using a polymer coated bullet for that load data, which is for uncoated lead? SNS does claim somewhere on their site that their polymer coated bullets are safe up to 1500fps, or something to that effect.

Edit to correct: SNS website didn't mention "safe" to 1500fps, it was without leading up to that velocity.
 
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The lead and coated bullets aren’t “safe” up to any specific velocity. They are easy to not lead up your bore up to a certain pressure. Most the time 2/3 the way to max velocity of jacketed is where things start becoming critical. If you roll your own and have some experience you can push lead as fast as jacketed and many times faster before pressure signs develop. But you get into lots of variables that off the shelf bullet suppliers simply can’t mess with.
 
I was quite content to watch this thread quietly and refrain from making any comments as a novice reloader. But perhaps you could address something for me here.

I'm using SNS Casting 240gr polymer coated LSWCs, and I've been using Lyman 50th data for A2400. I finally worked up to the maximum powder charge in their data, of 20.6gr. I can't remember the velocity they listed for a 5.5" barrel, but I think it was somewhere in the mid 1300s. Is this not what you would consider "hot"? Or should I not be using a polymer coated bullet for that load data, which is for uncoated lead? SNS does claim somewhere on their site that their polymer coated bullets are safe up to 1500fps, or something to that effect.

Edit to correct: SNS website didn't mention "safe" to 1500fps, it was without leading up to that velocity.

If your using jacketed data for a cast coated bullet your velocity could be anywhere. 2400 is pretty slow burning so it maybe 100fps under jacketed data. If you were running a fast powder it may be 100 over the data.
The coated bullets usually run faster than naked lead or jacketed. But lead bullets in general don’t require as much force to go down the barrel so with slow powder they sometimes don’t build up pressure good and will drag on velocity.
If that’s clear as mud!
 
If your using jacketed data for a cast coated bullet your velocity could be anywhere. 2400 is pretty slow burning so it maybe 100fps under jacketed data. If you were running a fast powder it may be 100 over the data.
The coated bullets usually run faster than naked lead or jacketed. But lead bullets in general don’t require as much force to go down the barrel so with slow powder they sometimes don’t build up pressure good and will drag on velocity.
If that’s clear as mud!

Thanks!

No, I'm not using data for jacketed. It's for a 240gr LSWC, but coated is not specified.
 
The Keith is a great bullet but we've learned a lot since it was designed. All these big bore "magnum" cartridges do their best work with heavy bullets and they are quite useful when game is larger than deer.
I’d really like to see a study on Kieth style vs a jacketed hunting type bullet. I realize guys who don’t cast can’t run full house cast load though.
I started casting because I lucked into a cheap setup and figured I’d save money, but the first time I shot a pig with one I quit loading jacketed bullets for any handgun. I was out shooting pigs off my big red and ran out of XTP’s for my 460 Rowland, so I switched to my “plinker” 200 grain swc. Of course I load them not now! From a 124grain 9mm to a 405 grain 480 Ruger bullet (I guess a keyed slug is the biggest I do at 1oz) I’ve had to cull a couple auto loaders that didn’t like the LSWC bullets.
 
I'm using SNS Casting 240gr polymer coated LSWCs, and I've been using Lyman 50th data for A2400. I finally worked up to the maximum powder charge in their data, of 20.6gr. I can't remember the velocity they listed for a 5.5" barrel, but I think it was somewhere in the mid 1300s. Is this not what you would consider "hot"? Or should I not be using a polymer coated bullet for that load data, which is for uncoated lead?
You should be fine. Coated act a lot like lead. 1300 FPS from a 5.5" barrel is not "hot" (Assuming an appropriate powder) for .44 Magnum. I run in the mid 1300's from a 5.5" Redhawk with 240 jacketed using either AA #9 or N-110. Max data with H-110/W-296 can get you more FPS.
 
You should be fine. Coated act a lot like lead. 1300 FPS from a 5.5" barrel is not "hot" (Assuming an appropriate powder) for .44 Magnum. I run in the mid 1300's from a 5.5" Redhawk with 240 jacketed using either AA #9 or N-110. Max data with H-110/W-296 can get you more FPS.

Interesting. I suppose "hot" could be a somewhat subjective term, but that gives me a better understanding of what it means in terms of velocities. I've just been incorrectly assuming it means the upper velocities in the load data for a given projectile. I wonder what our OP thinks it means.
 
I'm with @CraigC, casting sucks. Plenty of hard cast bullets on the market to choose from. I HAVE cast bullets in my life, but have no intention of doing so again unless circumstances change substantially.

@WrongHanded - recall above when I said all lead bullets are not created equal? The SNS bullets are a "mid-cast" bullet, with hardness of 16-17BHN, right in the sweet spot for 44mag at ~1300fps. They're remarkably cheap when bought in bulk, but still $12 more per 500 than a guy could get lead 210grn from MBC, with a lower alloy (12BHN, basically WW). If a guy just buys based on price, odds are he's not going to end up with a "hot 44mag compatible" bullet. Guys can run hardcast bullets in rifle cartridges up over 2,000fps - it's all about matching your pressure, velocity, and hardness. Scores of books written on the subject... but details like that are likely NOT readily recognized by the 29yr old new reloader with a "look at me" complex... Note, he's looking at Berry's bullets, discussing 240grn bullets, and focused on hot loads - which would put a 240 somewhere around 1500-1650fps, aka, 300fps over the rating for Berry's bullets... Details which come second nature to the experienced are still alien to the rookie...

20.6grn of 2400 should be something like 34,700psi, according the the Alliant data. Not bumping it's head on be ceiling yet, but close enough to reach up and touch it. They're also showing a lot higher velocity than 1300, however, even factoring a generous loss per inch - listed as 1510fps.
 
I'm with @CraigC, casting sucks. Plenty of hard cast bullets on the market to choose from. I HAVE cast bullets in my life, but have no intention of doing so again unless circumstances change substantially.

@WrongHanded - recall above when I said all lead bullets are not created equal? The SNS bullets are a "mid-cast" bullet, with hardness of 16-17BHN, right in the sweet spot for 44mag at ~1300fps. They're remarkably cheap when bought in bulk, but still $12 more per 500 than a guy could get lead 210grn from MBC, with a lower alloy (12BHN, basically WW). If a guy just buys based on price, odds are he's not going to end up with a "hot 44mag compatible" bullet. Guys can run hardcast bullets in rifle cartridges up over 2,000fps - it's all about matching your pressure, velocity, and hardness. Scores of books written on the subject... but details like that are likely NOT readily recognized by the 29yr old new reloader with a "look at me" complex... Note, he's looking at Berry's bullets, discussing 240grn bullets, and focused on hot loads - which would put a 240 somewhere around 1500-1650fps, aka, 300fps over the rating for Berry's bullets... Details which come second nature to the experienced are still alien to the rookie...

20.6grn of 2400 should be something like 34,700psi, according the the Alliant data. Not bumping it's head on be ceiling yet, but close enough to reach up and touch it. They're also showing a lot higher velocity than 1300, however, even factoring a generous loss per inch - listed as 1510fps.

Thanks for the detailed explanation. I really appreciate it. As usual, you've given me more to think about.
 
Forget about nitpicking diameter, anything from .429-.431" will do, just don't grab any .427" .44-40 bullets.

Maybe a diameter range is okay for lead, some working better than others, but presents a valid question for those jacketed soft points pictured or referenced. The OP is asking intelligent questions about what to buy (or not), so the questions could be addressed instead of dismissed. Based on my own loading of 44 Mag, a caliber in my collection which you inspired, a midrange Unique load with middle weight bullets would not be at all what the OP was pursuing. I agree that it is a good shooter, but it isn't very "magnum", and may be a powder he doesn't really need for his priorities. Bringing him down to a milder load range is a well meaning attempt to change the premise. Personally, I would start with some purchased magnum SJSP ammo and decide if that is the recoil level I want to maintain, given a gun that projects to withstand a steady diet of it. If store bought of a couple brands/loads were a bit much for what I wanted to shoot regularly in a given gun, then I would consider loading with powders that are not "magnum" slow burners (like Unique).

Primer questions are useful too, because the premise is what to buy (or not). I would just offer that if ordering enough to justify HAZMAT, the types of primer can be mixed but in 1000 piece increments. Keeping one $30 brick around should not be a big deal for any reloader.
 
I wonder what our OP thinks it means.
Indeed. "Hot" could mean over pressure. "Hot" could mean fast. Dunno what people really mean unless they explain it better.

Yes RG, when people ask multiple questions at the same time it can get confusing.

CraigC and Varminterror are correct, you need to match the bullet to the application, which doesn't mean some bullets cannot fill a wide variety of applications..

We really need some more input from the OP. The bullets(s) recommended for a light plinker may be different from the ones for full house loads due to cost savings etc.

That 240 Gr JSP or JHP can fill all of the roles for the OP, but may be a more expensive choice for roles (Light plinker) it is overqualified for.

And powders as well, if he wants to load from light to "hot", he likely needs two powders depending on how light and how "hot", and three may serve even better.
 
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