New Winchester Super Grade Not So "Super"

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Geno

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Dear The High Road Members:

I thought I would post this here for all to see and follow. I purchased this Super Grade two weeks ago. Well, I am given pause by the lack of quality control. For a $930.00 plus tax firearm, I expect more. I have returned the rifle to Browning/Winchester and will post any updates from them. I have provided a link to this thread so the representatives might make posts if they choose.

Geno


Dr. Xxxx Xxxx
XXXX Xxxx Drive
Xxxx, State XXXXX
XXX-XXX-XXXX
[email protected]



Browning/Winchester Service
1 Browning Place
Arnold, MO 63010

To Whom It May Concern:

Please address the following problems with my newly purchased Winchester Model 70 Super Grade, caliber .30-06 Sprg. I have posted photographs at The High Road (dot org) for you to be able to view. Here is the link: [ http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=6282978#post6282978 ]. I do not have photo paper to be able to print them. My specific concerns include the barrel’s bore, the stock’s barrel channel and the floor plate’s hinge.

The first problem that I noted when I arrived home was that the stock was not properly torqued. In fact, I was able to move the barrel action sideways inside in the stock’s barrel channel. I used my torque wrench and torqued the front screw to 40 pounds and then the rear screw to 40 pounds. The barrel was very noticeably not running straight in the barrel channel. See the picture posted at thehighroad.org Regardless, I figured that this was a matter that could be corrected by Winchester or an approved agent with a re-bed or a new stock.

At this same time, I examined the whole rifle over. The floor plate’s hinge is quite simply messed-up. The floor plate has approximately one-half inch lateral movement in both the left and right directions. There is something wrong with that floor plate hinge. I have never had a firearm that had such play.

The final concern is that barrel’s bore is both rough and pitted. It appears that perhaps a piece of metal was caught between the barrel tube and the mandrel during forging. When you examine approximately 1/8th” to 1/4th” inside of the bore, you will witness what appear to be disc-shaped cuts in the rifling and lands.

Following two days cure time for the scope mounts and rings, I took the rifle to the range. I have posted a target for your viewing. The target was fired at 100 yards, from a bench with sandbags. The ambient temperature was 23 degrees, and there was zero wind. Following each 3-shot string, I allowed 5 minutes to cool the barrel completely. The first three-shot group measured approximately 0.30”. I fired a second 3-shot group with measured approximately 0.60”. The 3rd 3-shot group measured approximately 1.80” and the final 3-shot group measured 2.10”. Now I mean to tell you, I am a whole lot better shot than that. When I returned home, I checked the stock, scope base and rings for looseness. Torque had held solid. As I cleaned the barrel, I noted the bore.

Specifically, I am requesting that Browning/Winchester install a new Super Grade barrel .30-06. I a requesting that the barreled action be bedded into a new Super Grade stock, and finally, I am requesting a new magazine floor plate. I don’t understand how a Super Grade could pass quality control and leave the factory in this condition. Feel free to contact me when you receive this letter and the rifle.

Your professionally,


Dr. Xxxx Xxxx
16-February-2010


Photos are provided below:

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Horsemany:

You should see the stock in 3-D!! There is no way that anyone in QC reviewed that rifle. We'll now see how the repair goes. Thus far I have not been charged for the return shipping. It appears the dealer will pick that up. That's a smart way to not lose my business.

Geno
 
Geno,

Did you have reason to believe that Winchester would not make this good? Also, is there a reason you don't want a replacement rifle?
 
rswartsell:

I have no idea if they will make it right or not. I've never had to return a Winchester. If they choose to issue a new rifle, I am fine with it, but I had to detail the what's wrong issues in the letter. Certainly simply issuing a new rifle would be easiest. Hopefully they will either make it right, or issue a new rifle without undue delay.

Geno
 
I hope so too Geno,

I am looking forward to purchasing a new Model 70 in the not too distant future, I will follow your thread with interest.
 
Super Grade my a**

Just out of curiousity, is the action glass/epoxy bedded? The last Model 70 I bought had the hot glue recoil lug bedding feature and it sat in the stock the same as your does.

Hope they make it right for you.
 
smokey262:

Yes, it is hard-bedded (resin). I wasn't real impressed with the bedding job. I didn't think to take pics of the interior of the stock...I should have.

You are correct that is no Super Grade rifle. That is precisely why I posted here. People need to see what is being turned-out, and people need to hold the company accountable. I want to buy USA-made firearms especially now. But they durned-well better be as-good-as (or better-than) what else is available.

Folks who have read my rants about Kimber know that I have extreme standards for firearms quality. They either are quality, or they are not. Kimber has lost my business for life, as a matter of principle. My principles can not compromised. So, here I sit waiting to see Browning/Winchester's principles.

What’s the old saying, “Beauty is only skin-deep, but ugly goes all the way to the core”? In this case, the ugly goes all the way to the bore. Here are some other pictures of the stock. What a shame to have such a wonderful piece of walnut destroyed.

Geno


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That's a great piece of walnut. The only thing I think they may not make right is the floorplate IMO. I've not seen a FN m70 that didn't have a sloppy flooplate as you described. I'd be surprised if a replacement rifle would have a better floorplate.
 
NVMM:

Yes, I did inspect it. That the barreled action's screws were not torqued snug made the barrel channel's errant fit far less pronounced. In fact, that is what the dealer attributed it to, that it simply needed torqued-down. When the barreled action is not torqued, it has a free-floated barrel. When it is torqued properly, only the right side free floats. Who knows...it may just be bedding issues. But that bore?! It wasn't possible to see in the bore at that store. This would have been a good rifle to have had bore-scoped before purchase.

Geno
 
I understand. I feel your pain pal.
I've been hearing of complaints about Remington but not much about Winchesters. Maybe a fluke?
I hope you get taken care of (in a good way).
Good luck
 
Can't believe they let that slip. Look forward to hearing their response. I plan to purchase a couple new Winchesters (a M-70 and 1895) in the near future, but my plans may change depending upon your results. Good luck.

:)
 
Update. I called Winchester today to confirm that they had received the Super Grade. They have and it, and it is waiting for a gunsmith's examination. The gentleman stated it will take about 3 or 4 weeks. I did alert them that this thread exists, here at THR.org, and that there are nice photos for their review.

Geno
 
Good grief what is taking them so long, I haven't even seen the rifle and I can tell what the problems are...it takes them a MONTH to do the same BEFORE starting work on it. Not so sure that I want a new M-70 now, but I will hold judgement until the rifle is assessed, repaired, and returned.

:)
 
Maverick223:

Yeah...I pointed them to this thread. Among other things, they will see that I reacted to this incident by purchasing a new Kimber M84 LPT in .308 Win instead of waiting for the new Stealth in .308. Depending on how they resolve the matter, I may still buy a Stealth. Then again, perhaps I won't. There are equally priced alternatives on the market.

Geno

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That looks an awful lot like a sleeved barrel and a steel curl caught in the hammer forging mandrel. Both would be interesting in a rifle with Winchester on it.

Jim
 
Jim:

What do you mean, "sleeved barrel"? And what's a "curl"? Even with all the years I've shot, I still keep learning new terms. :) Thanks for the patience.

Geno
 
Sleeved barrel is just that, a liner with a sleeve, and a curl, most likely refers to a metal curl or chip from the rifling process getting trapped against the mandrill of the cutting head, wow, beautiful rifle, to look at, shame.
 
Oh. No, it's a regular barrel, but the target crown makes it look sleeved. I too suspect that something was caught between the forging hammers and the steel. Their finding will be interesting.

What gives me pause, it that it will take a month to repair?! How the Hades many defective Winchesters are going back anyhow?! :scrutiny:

Geno
 
The marks in the barrel look to me like they were made by a clamping device of some sort.
 
Geno said:
Folks who have read my rants about Kimber know that I have extreme standards for firearms quality. They either are quality, or they are not. Kimber has lost my business for life, as a matter of principle. My principles can not compromised.

Geno said:
Among other things, they will see that I reacted to this incident by purchasing a new Kimber M84 LPT in .308 Win instead of waiting for the new Stealth in .308.

Okay....now I'm confused
 
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