Still think this man is the Republican candidate for 2016? Think again:
http://www.newsmax.com/US/christie-jersey-gun-laws/2013/08/08/id/519504
http://www.newsmax.com/US/christie-jersey-gun-laws/2013/08/08/id/519504
NJ Republican Signs 10 Anti-Gun Bills
- Thread starter dc dalton
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BigN
Member
I don't know what the surprise is here. As soon as he got into office he did a 180. Spends a lot of time playing grab a$$ with a liberal president. Birds of a feather...
PonyKiller
Member
Read through them this morning. Other than not selling weapons to people on terrorist watch lists, and creating a gov't commission, there's really nothing new for New Jersey in there. It takes things already illegal and ups third degree crimes to second degree crimes, more or less bumps 'em all one notch up the scale.
Exempts muzzle loaders air rifles and pellet guns, exempts fire arm and handgun owners from FOIA records.
Christie's a battle picker, The state is run by the very democratic north, he's gotta throw them a bone from time to time. In the end, in this state for law abiding citizens of NJ there is no change. As Far as photo ops with Barry after hurricane sandy, as a politician I suppose you gotta give credit where it's due, the feds were here quick and were helpful in the aftermath, if the big man wants a tour and pics you fire up the chopper. I can't Fault the guy for that.
Exempts muzzle loaders air rifles and pellet guns, exempts fire arm and handgun owners from FOIA records.
Christie's a battle picker, The state is run by the very democratic north, he's gotta throw them a bone from time to time. In the end, in this state for law abiding citizens of NJ there is no change. As Far as photo ops with Barry after hurricane sandy, as a politician I suppose you gotta give credit where it's due, the feds were here quick and were helpful in the aftermath, if the big man wants a tour and pics you fire up the chopper. I can't Fault the guy for that.
Bartholomew Roberts
Member
That sounds reasonable at first glance - except that you are denying a fundamental civil right to someone based on a secret list administered totally by an Executive controlled bureaucracy. This means your rights can be cut off without any court hearing, without breaking any laws and you won't even get to know why they were cut off because whether or not you are on said watch list is a state secret - which means you lack a critical element necessary to petition the courts to get those fundamental civil rights restored.
Not to mention that in addition to those basic structural problems and lack of safeguards, you have just given every actual terrorist on the list a quick and easy way to see whether or not you are on to them - all they have to do is attempt to buy a gun. And since there is no "Are you on a secret terrorist watch list you know nothing about?" question on a Form 4473, their attempt is not even illegal if they are not already a prohibited person for other reasons.
The "terrorist watch list" laws are immensely bad ideas.
Keep in mind that this debate is not Dem vs. Rep. For the most part, that is how votes line up, but that is not the battle.
It is clear to me, though, from his actions in the last 8 months that CC is a big government establishment-backed Republican. No doubt the likes of Karl Rove love him. We have seen how John McCain and Mitt Romney performed in the last two elections. That LAST thing we need is a repeat of the last two elections. I like what he had done about taxes and the budget in New Jersey, but that is pretty much the only thing I like about him.
It is clear to me, though, from his actions in the last 8 months that CC is a big government establishment-backed Republican. No doubt the likes of Karl Rove love him. We have seen how John McCain and Mitt Romney performed in the last two elections. That LAST thing we need is a repeat of the last two elections. I like what he had done about taxes and the budget in New Jersey, but that is pretty much the only thing I like about him.
PonyKiller
Member
I agree that is the part that is bothersome, the part that bugs me is the "secret" part. It should be public like the wanted poster in the post office. If your on it errantly you can clear yourself. Even the fact that you can errantly end up on it is silly and a bit tyrannical. The Idea that "they" can put any given citizen on the list legitimately or erroneously without hearings or courts, is something i'm sure will run it's course through the court systems, it's the American way. until then we will all have to endure it.
WardenWolf
member
The watch list part will probably get struck down, as there is no due process of law for these people. The FOIA record restriction is a good thing. Other than that, there's really nothing changed.
bdickens
Member
Christie calling himself a Republican makes him one no more than me calling myself the Sultan of Persia makes me that.
"New Jersey and You: Purrfect Together"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yUsnESf3Ug
(Former Governor) Tom Kean for a visit NJ tourism TV commercial in the 1980's
But seriously, I don't think there has been one pro-gun legislation passed in NJ as long as I could remember. Unless in NJ one considers a veto of a gun control bill a 'pro-gun bill'.
There is (and has been) a large political anti-gun machine at work in NJ for years, groups like "Cease Fire NJ" are very influential with the politicians and lawmakers. You really can't blame the people for getting fed up and moving out of the state. Maybe it is easier to leave than fight, but that leaves less people to fight for their rights. There is no easy answer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yUsnESf3Ug
(Former Governor) Tom Kean for a visit NJ tourism TV commercial in the 1980's
But seriously, I don't think there has been one pro-gun legislation passed in NJ as long as I could remember. Unless in NJ one considers a veto of a gun control bill a 'pro-gun bill'.
There is (and has been) a large political anti-gun machine at work in NJ for years, groups like "Cease Fire NJ" are very influential with the politicians and lawmakers. You really can't blame the people for getting fed up and moving out of the state. Maybe it is easier to leave than fight, but that leaves less people to fight for their rights. There is no easy answer.
bushmaster1313
Member
Sweeny's "Omnibus" bill has not yet been signed.
That is the one which will create havoc with the Firearms ID card.
That is the one which will create havoc with the Firearms ID card.
Johannes_Paulsen
Member
dcdalton said:
Gun-banning didn't stop Ronald Reagan from getting the GOP nomination.
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/09/the-secret-history-of-guns/308608/?single_page=true said:
oneounceload
member
Maybe Christie will pick another RINO, like Bloomberg, to be his running mate - two peas in a pod
herrwalther
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Democrat...Republican, same crap just different name more or less. Generally Republicans are pro-2a and Democrats are anti, but there are a few who break that mold. The one and only thing that they all have in common is they lie. Keeping up to date with how someone acts in office as opposed to blindly voting for the R or D next to the name.
Willie Sutton
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Having lived in NJ for many years (now gone), but having lived there under Christie, let me say this:
He's the best Governer that NJ had had in my lifetime, and that's 54 years worth.
The NJ frearms enthusiasts that I have spoken to in the last day are pretty happy right now, Christie tossed the opposition a few bones that do not really change anything, and has NOT signed and has given no indication that he will sign the bills that would actually affect the residents in a meaningful way.
His response to the superstorm was good, and I give him credit for graciously working with Obama's administration to do good work there with FEMA. To frame this, my own home and *everything I owned* (except my firearms, which were in Pennsyvania) was lost, and I personally witnessed Obama and Christie's venture to see the damage. He lead from the front and gave credit where credit was due, even to Obama (who actually deserves credit for kicking FEMA in the ass and getting them to do their job, which they did very well).
NJ's firearms politics cannot be viewed from afar as similar to any other state... what is "good for the second amendment" in NJ would be "bad for the second amendment anyplace else". The gun culture there is essentially nonexistant.
Christie is as "pro gun" as anyone can be expected to be in NJ. He's neutral... that's the only other choice there other than anti. His position has evolved since he famously put himself on the anti assault rifle poster decades ago. He is just... neutral. It's about all that NJ can expect.
He's a good leader. He's open, accessable, and speaks his mind. He's not perfect, but he's VERY good for NJ.
Willie
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He's the best Governer that NJ had had in my lifetime, and that's 54 years worth.
The NJ frearms enthusiasts that I have spoken to in the last day are pretty happy right now, Christie tossed the opposition a few bones that do not really change anything, and has NOT signed and has given no indication that he will sign the bills that would actually affect the residents in a meaningful way.
His response to the superstorm was good, and I give him credit for graciously working with Obama's administration to do good work there with FEMA. To frame this, my own home and *everything I owned* (except my firearms, which were in Pennsyvania) was lost, and I personally witnessed Obama and Christie's venture to see the damage. He lead from the front and gave credit where credit was due, even to Obama (who actually deserves credit for kicking FEMA in the ass and getting them to do their job, which they did very well).
NJ's firearms politics cannot be viewed from afar as similar to any other state... what is "good for the second amendment" in NJ would be "bad for the second amendment anyplace else". The gun culture there is essentially nonexistant.
Christie is as "pro gun" as anyone can be expected to be in NJ. He's neutral... that's the only other choice there other than anti. His position has evolved since he famously put himself on the anti assault rifle poster decades ago. He is just... neutral. It's about all that NJ can expect.
He's a good leader. He's open, accessable, and speaks his mind. He's not perfect, but he's VERY good for NJ.
Willie
.
Bartholomew Roberts
Member
Having your Second Amendment rights suspended without due process because you are on a secret list doesn't really change anything?
Even if we take as charitable a view of Christie's actions as possible, there is no question he will sell the Second Amendment down the river the first time he faces even mild political pressure. Hell, he campaigned on banning firearms technology over a century old! In this last go around, we had several prominent NRA and GOA A-rated Senators pushing gun control. The last thing in the world we need to be doing is making apologies for people who are unashamed gun banners.
He's a former prosecutor. What do you expect?
Exactly. Whether people feel he's a good leader or not, or whether he handled a natural disaster well is irrevelant. I also feel he has some good leadership qualities. But that is irrevelant. He is an anti. There are other good leaders out there that will not sell out the 2a. Lets support them.
PonyKiller
Member
Pro gun folks in NJ are kinda like the 300 Spartans at Thermopylae. Vastly out numbered and knowing the reinforcements aren't coming.
The Northern part of the state is predominately escaped NYer's, or a few generations removed. Lots of services, transportation, police, gov't, and mafia. Then there is the southern part of the state and the NW corner where it's very rural, with lots of farmland and state forests. Nearly all the money and power comes through the northern part of the state, and we are constantly struggling against them, from schooling issues, taxing issues you name it, it's a constant tug of war.
New York City has a population Density of 114 uniformed police officers per mile. Their total police force is 34500 then detectives and staff and all that. There are more cops per mile in NY than most area's have people per mile. My wife's from Brooklyn, there are more people in a square mile of here home town than my entire township which is half the size of Brooklyn. If you Call the cops in Brooklyn, They show up two at a time in about 2-4 minutes. The mentality there is The cops and the mob have the guns, everyone else run for cover... It's taken almost ten years to break her of it.
That's our Struggle Out numbered, Out moneyed, Out of power, by generally well meaning folks that know that if they call the cops they will be there in about the time it takes a shaking finger to call 911. To Them they don't "need" guns, the bad guys and the cops have em.
The Northern part of the state is predominately escaped NYer's, or a few generations removed. Lots of services, transportation, police, gov't, and mafia. Then there is the southern part of the state and the NW corner where it's very rural, with lots of farmland and state forests. Nearly all the money and power comes through the northern part of the state, and we are constantly struggling against them, from schooling issues, taxing issues you name it, it's a constant tug of war.
New York City has a population Density of 114 uniformed police officers per mile. Their total police force is 34500 then detectives and staff and all that. There are more cops per mile in NY than most area's have people per mile. My wife's from Brooklyn, there are more people in a square mile of here home town than my entire township which is half the size of Brooklyn. If you Call the cops in Brooklyn, They show up two at a time in about 2-4 minutes. The mentality there is The cops and the mob have the guns, everyone else run for cover... It's taken almost ten years to break her of it.
That's our Struggle Out numbered, Out moneyed, Out of power, by generally well meaning folks that know that if they call the cops they will be there in about the time it takes a shaking finger to call 911. To Them they don't "need" guns, the bad guys and the cops have em.
Tommy Van Alen
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- Mar 19, 2012
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- 36
Christie = RINO
You know in the back of his mind, he got that lap band surgery because he knows how important looks are for being president.
You know in the back of his mind, he got that lap band surgery because he knows how important looks are for being president.
problem is... Willie is right and so is everyone else.
CC is the LEAST anti-2A govn'r we've had in a long time in this state. I think he's "read the tea leaves" and seen that being california style anti-2A would destroy him in his political goals. As such he's walking as fine a "neutral" line as he possibly can... sort of like a neutral-evil.
Sad fact is in the Primary the best choice was Seth Grossman... but he didn't even appear on my radar until I got the sample ballot! By then it was too late to help him get more exposure. The Machinery doesn't make it easy to find the best candidates.
CC is the LEAST anti-2A govn'r we've had in a long time in this state. I think he's "read the tea leaves" and seen that being california style anti-2A would destroy him in his political goals. As such he's walking as fine a "neutral" line as he possibly can... sort of like a neutral-evil.
Sad fact is in the Primary the best choice was Seth Grossman... but he didn't even appear on my radar until I got the sample ballot! By then it was too late to help him get more exposure. The Machinery doesn't make it easy to find the best candidates.
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