No more Rugers for me

[JesseL]

I swore off their auto's as soon as they started with the loaded chamber indicators. Ruger has always tried to lawyer-proof their handguns, but LCI's take it to a level I won't tolerate.

I've got two guns with loaded chamber indicators. The first is a Luger P08 that's 81 years old. The second is a new Ruger SR9. Interestingly the two LCIs are mechanically almost identical.

The LCI doesn't strike me as particularly offensive, just an easy way to know that there's probably a round in there. It doesn't get in the way, it doesn't ugly up the gun too much; and if it fails, the gun will probably still work just fine.

 

[ClickClickD'oh]

I swore off their auto's as soon as they started with the loaded chamber indicators. Ruger has always tried to lawyer-proof their handguns, but LCI's take it to a level I won't tolerate.

I have seen a lot of reasons floating around the shooting community why one company or another falls out of favor... but Loaded Chamber Indicators? You've got to be kidding on that one.. right?

 

[M1 Shooter]

I can't believe that no one has stated the obvious and simple solution.

You have an SP101 in .32H&R, but you want an SP101 in .327FM, right?.
Ok, then why don't you sell the one in .32H&R and buy a new one in .327FM.
That's what I would do.
It seems you are making this more complicated than it really needs to be. JMHO

 

[goon]

IIRC, Ruger lost a lot of money over the original loading procedure with their old model single actions.
Some moron would load six rounds and drop it, kill himself, and his wife would sue Ruger.
Oddly enough, Single action revolvers had been around for over a hundred years by then so the procedure of loading them should have been known to everyone.

My point?

They've had bad experiences in court.
I still don't blame them for wanting to exercise some control over some things.
And you can buy many Ruger parts at Brownells for those of you who are too irritated by this.

 

[jgo296]

machiv what you can really do to stick it to ruger is give me all your ruger products for free and say they werent worth selling

 

[torpid]

...you're complaining about something A DEAD MAN wrote A GENERATION AGO regarding a law that has since been allowed to die...

Nicely put.

 

[MachIVshooter]

Why do you think we had to get tort reform to hold firearms companies not responsible for "gun violence"? Because juries were awarding damages, paid by gun companies, for the criminal misuse of their product.

Lawful commerce in arms was signed into law some time ago.

Why do you think McDonald's coffee has a "Warning: Contents are HOT" sign? Because juries think they should award damages against McD's when some idiot spills their coffee.

She got nothing after Micky D's appealed.

How about "don't stick your hand under the lawn mower" signs? Or any one of a million "idiot warnings" that exist.

Negligence/Naiveté regarding use and deliberate misuse/modification of/to a product are two different things, and the reason most laws we're so familiar with (18 USC 922 & Volkner/McClure) are written as "knowingly" or "willfully".

But let's not turn this into a legal debate. My point is that a company unwilling to sell me a gun part will not get my business when it comes to whole guns.

I have seen a lot of reasons floating around the shooting community why one company or another falls out of favor... but Loaded Chamber Indicators? You've got to be kidding on that one.. right?

Nope. Also refuse to buy guns with mag safeties (or ILS systems) that cannot be removed. Ruger's indicators are not exactly subtle, either. The word hideous comes to mind, though.

Seriously, I was all set to buy an XD when they came out until I saw the little doohicky on top staring me in the face.

machiv what you can really do to stick it to ruger is give me all your ruger products for free and say they werent worth selling

How's about when you're considering a Ruger product, I'll sell you mine and replace it with a Remington or S&W.

 

[Moonclip]

I have a love/hate relationship with Ruger, mostly love. The "letter" bugs me, the PC attitudes that continue today like warning billboards on barrels and loaded chamber indicators/integral locks, past attitudes toward "high cap mags" and small pistols to "civilians" ect...

OTOH I have bought like 15-20 new Rugers in my lifetime as well as many used examples. My customer service experiences have been generally good. I think after their legal battles with old model single actions they got VERY scared and PC.

 

[loop]

Ruger refused to honor my warranty on a Mini 14 when the bolt blew up in my face. They offered to "replace it" with another gun for a mere $350. Lifetime warranty my "you-know-what."

I stripped it, threw the parts in a box and vowed to never buy anything that said "Ruger" on it again. These days seeing Ruger on a gun means junk - no thank you.

 

[Caimlas]

You're being irrational.

You can't expect a lifetime warranty on a product and have them willingly sell you parts to modify (and possibly break/destroy) said product in the process. Then they're stuck with either fixing your goof-up free of charge (ie "free gunsmithing with every part purchase from Ruger!") or they're stuck with not honoring their promised warranty - which is going to hurt them even worse.

No, their decision is perfectly reasonable.

 

[2nd 41]

I would be more offended about being ON HOLD for such a long time. That is rude & annoying.

 

[P97]

I've been doing Business with Ruger since 1960 and have never had any problems with the Company or their Products. More than I can say for a lot of other Companies and products.

 

[lee n. field]

Anyway, they refuse to sell the .327 cylinders and tell me that I have to buy a new gun.

Talk to someone in service, and ask if they will fit a new cylinder for you.

 

[GTSteve03]

Nope. Also refuse to buy guns with mag safeties (or ILS systems) that cannot be removed.

<snip>

How's about when you're considering a Ruger product, I'll sell you mine and replace it with a Remington or S&W.

Ah, would that be the same Remington and S&W that have internal locks and mag safeties on their firearms?

Hypocrisy, it's not just for breakfast anymore.

 

[32winspl]

Won't buy a complete firearm from a company that won't sell you parts? Then you've got to rule out Marlin too. I had a "knowledgable" friend (no, really) lighten the trigger pull on my 1895M. He lightened it to the point that the hammer would follow the bolt forward. Calls to Marlin for new sear/hammer informed me that the rifle had to be sent back to the factory for repair. Calls from my (now) REAL Gunsmith to Marlin resulted in the same information. Just so you know.

 

[MachIVshooter]

Ah, would that be the same Remington and S&W that have internal locks and mag safeties on their firearms

Hypocrisy, it's not just for breakfast anymore. ?

Reading comprehension:

Also refuse to buy guns with mag safeties (or ILS systems) that cannot be removed.

S&W and Remington ILS and S&W mag safeties are easily removed. A small recessed allen screw fills the hole nicely. Remington also sells non-ILS rear firing pin shrouds (to the customer, even!)

 

[ants]

Here's and FYI story

Here a recent FYI story, it may be interesting information for you folks wanting to buy parts directly from a manufacturer but find Customer Service unwilling to cooperate.

The extractor tip broke on my S&W 5906. I called S&W for a replacement. A CS representative named Stewart explained that the extractor is a Factory Installed part only, and they no longer sell extractors for that model to individual owners. Then the man explained why.

They made three different extractors for that 39/59 series, but didn't take careful note of the manufacturing dates each were used, and many pistols have had new slides refitted over the years. In order to determine the correct part, they need to examine the extractor and slide. The differences are minute and hard to identify by naked eye. For several years they sold extractors to S&W owners, trying to help them identify the correct part each time (usually over the phone). But they received hundreds of complaints when the extractors failed to extract. "You sold me the wrong part, and I DNF'd the IPSC match. It's your fault, you idiots!" You can imagine the complaints they received. Today, they simply refuse to sell those parts to unqualified individuals.

In my case, I contacted a qualified individual who helped me identify and locate the new extractor (I bought an extra for the spare parts kit) and now I'm happy. Once I knew S&W's point of view, I did an end run with a friendly neighborhood armorer and accomplished my goal.

So if you cannot buy a specific part from a manufacturer, it may be wisdom on their part that you don't understand. They have much more experience with their own guns than we do. But with patience and desire you can find a way to accomplish your goals. Be persistent and exploit your own resources.

 

[DougDubya]

Give me a break. First of all, this comment has nothing to do with the thread. Secondly, you're complaining about something A DEAD MAN wrote A GENERATION AGO regarding a law that has since been allowed to die. Third, what BILL RUGER opted to write, or the opinions he held in the late 80's, has nothing legally or morally to do with Sturm Ruger Inc, a public corporation. If you can't understand the difference you need to study up on the corporate form.

Quoted for TRUTH.

Plus, the AWB might have been inspired by a mistaken minimalization concept he'd put forth in the 1980's, but when the AWB came around, he FOUGHT against that concept in the NINETIES. Ruger acknowledged and admitted his mistaken efforts from two decades ago.

GET OVER IT, GROW UP, AND PUT ON YOUR MAN PANTS!

 

[esq_stu]

I don't fault Ruger at all.

I think they don't sell cylinders for any of their guns. I tried to buy one in .45 ACP for mya .45 LC Blackhawk. They offered to fit one for me. I suspect they could do that for the .32.

I know my limitations and did not consider it worth arguing.

They wouldn't sell me a DAO hammer for a Speed Six or an SP101, either. (I got them anyway, just not directly from Ruger.)

Am I mad at Ruger? No, I am not. Their guns are well made and solid, and I'm willing to work with their policies as long as I get quality from them.

 

[Buttermilk]

I'm reminded of a saying,"Attitude Determines Altitude". Where do you guys buy your shirts? I'd be interested to know what a shirt looks like that fits someone with such a large chip on their shoulder. Obviously, you are one, or several, of the "me" generation who go through life with with a body deformation known as a recto-cranial inversion. I'm sorry for your unfortunate birth defect but please don't hold it against others. All our lives, and the circumstances surrounding them today, are governed by results of the litigious society in which we live. Were you in the manufacturers shoes, and had to pay millions of dollars to idiots, you would protect yourself from idiots. If you ever grow out of the birth defect of recto-cranial inversion, you will understand. In the meantime, please spare us the bandwidth of this great and wonderful website so we may learn and receive all the good stuff that is out there.

If the shoe fits, WEAR IT!!!!!

 

[hardbargin]

ruger

why not check brownell's they sell factory parts for the ruger's

 

[GTSteve03]

S&W and Remington ILS and S&W mag safeties are easily removed. A small recessed allen screw fills the hole nicely. Remington also sells non-ILS rear firing pin shrouds (to the customer, even!)

And then you void your warranty.

Or, you know, you could buy the S&W pistols without mag safeties that have really large warning labels printed on the side screaming "CAUTION: CAPABLE OF FIRING WITH MAGAZINE REMOVED" or some such nonsense. Oh yeah, and they also have loaded chamber indicators that you so loathe.

Like I said, loads of hypocrisy. Rationalize it all you want.

 

[silverlance]

Loop, if you dont want your broken Mini14 let me know how much you'd like to part with it for.

I like Ruger products. I have a Mini14 and a PC9. I love both of them. If I can find one cheaply, I'll get a P89 as well.

I will definitely get a new version MIni14 soon, and a second PC9.

 

[Spyvie]

I'm reminded of a saying,"Attitude Determines Altitude". Where do you guys buy your shirts? I'd be interested to know what a shirt looks like that fits someone with such a large chip on their shoulder. Obviously, you are one, or several, of the "me" generation who go through life with with a body deformation known as a recto-cranial inversion. I'm sorry for your unfortunate birth defect but please don't hold it against others.

Low to middlin road, but well said...

 

[strat81]

Lawful commerce in arms was signed into law some time ago.

Check S&W's annual report here:
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1092796/000095015307001514/p74086e10vk.htm

They have several cases still pending that they are hoping will be dismissed under PLCAA. Some of these cases are 5 years old.

As for product liability and stupid people, do a search for "Nowak v. Faberge." In that case, a girl (Nowak) punctured a can of AquaNet and set herself on fire. The can had a "Do Not Puncture" warning. Nowak won the case.