North Minneapolis mom armed with "weapons."

[Mn Fats]

My Boy's mom and him live in Minneapolis. She's scared of the riots and shootings all around there. Anyway she drove up to the country where I live to pick him up today. I looked in the car and seen a baseball bat and a sheathed 4" knife on the console.

I told her those things will get turned on you so fast. She replied "I don't feel responsible enough to carry a firearm". So I said take some classes and then go from there. Reply: "I still am just not responsible enough with my own purse let alone a loaded firearm".

Fair enough. So I recommended pepper spray. She's little and if she came at me with a baseball bat or a knife, it'd be very easy to turn that weapon against her. Basically just giving the bad guy a weapon.

I kept saying ditch them and either try out a conceal carry class and/or other classes and see how it goes. Or just go with the spray. Reply: "No this works for now".

My word means little. Can happen with an Ex. Does anyone have an article or something I can link to her that will make her knock off this terrible idea of self defense? Like a bat or knife being turned on someone small? I worry about her 50's greaser approach to a fight.

 

[George P]

She might be interested (you as well) in reading Kathy Jackson's CorneredCat.com; it might help alleviate some of her fears or give her some other ideas that might work.

 

[Mn Fats]

^anything to help, Thanks!

 

[bdickens]

Nope.

MYOB

No offense. Trying to ram gun ownership down the throat of someone dead set against it is a recipe for disaster.

 

[jwamplerusa]

I agree with bdickens, but I would also suggest you go to active self protection and pick out a few videos that show a defender losing badly. Link those to her with a sincere concern for her welfare as the child's mother.

I have found John Corria's work to be illuminating. Frankly many of his videos show how quickly things can go bad even in good circumstances. Under the circumstances and behaviors that many of us walk around in, such as your nose in a phone, it is shocking how badly it goes quickly for many.

Follow up the video links with a suggestion she developed a self-defense protocol which will protect her from what is in those videos. Let her discover for herself what she thinks will work against the true evil which is out there in the world.

 

[armedwalleye]

My Boy's mom and him live in Minneapolis. She's scared of the riots and shootings all around there...............….She replied "I don't feel responsible enough to carry a firearm". So I said take some classes and then go from there. Reply: "I still am just not responsible enough with my own purse let alone a loaded firearm"..

Don't mean to overstate the obvious, Fats, but she's responsible enough to have a child, and, I assume custody, but not responsible enough to protect him and/or herself?

Maybe a range day for her? Maybe start with a frank discussion of SELF protection for her first. Doesn't she owe some level of self protection to be able to be there for your joint son? She is probably out alone a lot more that with her/your son, but in the COVID wasteland, that may not apply....

 

[Trunk Monkey]

She might be interested (you as well) in reading Kathy Jackson's CorneredCat.com; it might help alleviate some of her fears or give her some other ideas that might work.

Read the book too.

 

[George Dickel]

You can lead a horse to water and you know the rest of the story. My wife's best friend's husband was out of state going to continuing education classes related to his job. He had a .45 acp she had access to. One night there was a loud sound in their basement, that turned out to be the cat, and she grabbed the gun and shouted down the stairs that she had a gun. The gun wasn't loaded and I asked her when she related the story us if she would have shot an intruder. She said she couldn't do it. I pointed out to her that had the noise been a violent intruder she could have ended up raped, beaten or murdered and would have provided a free gun to the criminal. It was like talking to mannequin, just a blank stare. You can't make the horse drink.

 

[Frank Ettin]

Another vote for Kathy Jackson's website and book. At one time she traveled around conducting classes. I don't know if she's still doing that, and the pandemic no doubt has curtailed her travels.

..."No this works for now".....

You might asked her, "Works for what"? If all she's done with her bat and knife is carry them around in her car, all she knows is that they work as things carried around in her car. She has no way of knowing if they work for her as defensive tools.

 

[jmorris]

She replied "I don't feel responsible enough to carry a firearm". So I said take some classes and then go from there. Reply: "I still am just not responsible enough with my own purse let alone a loaded firearm".

Thought for question to her after that last comment, “And you’re here for...”

 

[LNK]

And you’re here for...

Cut the guy some slack, he is trying to find out how he can help the mother of "his" child, protect his child. He may not be able to convince her to do anything, but let's give him some ideas to try.

Short videos that show just how dangerous and quick a violent encounter can be. Keep them short, as attention to things people want to ignore, is hard to maintain.

Good luck.

 

[Craig_AR]

Another vote for Kathy Jackson's website and book. At one time she traveled around conducting classes. I don't know if she's still doing that, and the pandemic no doubt has curtailed her travels.

In Feb 2020 I asked about her in Is Kathy Jackson Still Writing & Teaching? and @GEM said she has retired.

 

[jmorris]

Cut the guy some slack, he is trying to find out how he can help the mother of "his" child, protect his child. He may not be able to convince her to do anything, but let's give him some ideas to try.

My comment was not directed at the OP, but a person that claimed they were not responsible enough to have a loaded firearm but had no problem driving with other people. “I’m not responsible enough with my purse...” but I am here to drive your Son into Minneapolis.

Both of which require responsibility, auto accidents kill more people a year than firearm accidents and are more difficult to operate safely.

Not sure how to convince people against their will, but a start would be to get them to think about things for themselves with facts vs emotions.

 

[LNK]

My comment was not directed at the OP, but a person that claimed they were not responsible enough to have a loaded firearm but had no problem driving with other people. “I’m not responsible enough with my purse...” but I am here to drive your Son into Minneapolis.

Both of which require responsibility, auto accidents kill more people a year than firearm accidents and are more difficult to operate safely.

Not sure how to convince people against their will, but a start would be to get them to think about things for themselves with facts vs emotions.

My comment wasn't just directed at yours. I apologise if it seemed like an attack. While I agree with much of the sentiments about the futility of the task. I am not one to give up on someone if there is even a slight chance of success.

I am guilty of trying to teach a horse to deal card, as well as trying to teach a pig to speak. Neither endeavor yielded a result other than wasting ones time.

I wish the OP luck, and encourage others to try and help him.

 

[Mn Fats]

My comment was not directed at the OP, but a person that claimed they were not responsible enough to have a loaded firearm but had no problem driving with other people. “I’m not responsible enough with my purse...” but I am here to drive your Son into Minneapolis./QUOTE]
Yep, so deem them not viable for self protection. She's gun shy. And understands that about herself. Wow dude.

Nope.

MYOB

No offense. Trying to ram gun ownership down the throat of someone dead set against it is a recipe for disaster.

Never tried to "ram it down her throat". Just suggested my personal option. She declined, fine. So I was just looking for some input on literature or articles on more effective options than a baseball bat that I can link to her. Way to go low road though.

And you’re here for...

We're here in Strategies, Tactics and Training. I'm just looking for some links to some articles or something to help her understand a better way to defend herself.

Thanks to the actual help here though. I linked her to Kathy Jackson and she really appreciated that. She has The Cornered Cat coming on Amazon.

 

[Mn Fats]

^not sure why it posted like that. No matter.

 

[entropy]

My Boy's mom and him live in Minneapolis. She's scared of the riots and shootings all around there. Anyway she drove up to the country where I live to pick him up today. I looked in the car and seen a baseball bat and a sheathed 4" knife on the console.

I told her those things will get turned on you so fast. She replied "I don't feel responsible enough to carry a firearm". So I said take some classes and then go from there. Reply: "I still am just not responsible enough with my own purse let alone a loaded firearm".

Fair enough. So I recommended pepper spray. She's little and if she came at me with a baseball bat or a knife, it'd be very easy to turn that weapon against her. Basically just giving the bad guy a weapon.

I kept saying ditch them and either try out a conceal carry class and/or other classes and see how it goes. Or just go with the spray. Reply: "No this works for now".

My word means little. Can happen with an Ex. Does anyone have an article or something I can link to her that will make her knock off this terrible idea of self defense? Like a bat or knife being turned on someone small? I worry about her 50's greaser approach to a fight.

Quite honestly, even with her having a handgun, unless she took the basic classes, and a handgun retention class on top of that, they might just try to take it away from her anyway. There was a St. Paul cop a while back who was a 5' nothing female, she had to shoot 3 or 4 guys in the first couple years on the job, because they'd just laugh and keep coming at her when she drew her G19......

 

[jmorris]

We're here in Strategies, Tactics and Training. I'm just looking for some links to some articles or something to help her understand a better way to defend herself.

Fixed my post so it’s clear it wasn’t directed at you, rather a thought I had as a question for her after making the comment about not being responsible with a purse.

How is your relationship with her?

What are the chances she takes any of your advice to heart?

How does she make decisions, from an emotional or analytical perspective?

These are going to effect how you frame any information you try and relay.

May look at reasons she resists learning anything about self defense first.

Depending on how you answer the first two and age/maturity and relationship your son has with his mother, he might be another avenue to make presentation to her.

https://www.actdefense.net/5-reasons-women-dont-train-self-defense/

 

[George P]

Another vote for Kathy Jackson's website and book. At one time she traveled around conducting classes. I don't know if she's still doing that, and the pandemic no doubt has curtailed her travels.



You might asked her, "Works for what"? If all she's done with her bat and knife is carry them around in her car, all she knows is that they work as things carried around in her car. She has no way of knowing if they work for her as defensive tools.

IIRC, Kathy retired a year or two ago

 

[Trunk Monkey]

In Feb 2020 I asked about her in Is Kathy Jackson Still Writing & Teaching? and #GEM said she has retired.

Kathy Jackson used to be a moderator on The Firing Line, under the user name Pax. I think she was a member here under the same name. I don't think she was ever a moderator here although I'm under the impression she and Oleg are friends.

She hasn't posted here in 11 years, she hasn't logged in in 3.

She still maintains a Facebook page as The Cornered Cat

 

[bdickens]

Never tried to "ram it down her throat". Just suggested my personal option. She declined, fine. So I was just looking for some input on literature or articles on more effective options than a baseball bat that I can link to her. Way to go low road though.

Not low road in the least. Just the unvarnished truth.

I'm sorry if I offended you, but your post sure sounded a whole lot like the "how do I get my wife/girlfriend to carry" posts that crop up here periodically. The attempt but rarely succeeds in doing anything other than causing resentment and ill feelings.

 

[23tony]

Not sure how to convince people against their will, but a start would be to get them to think about things for themselves with facts vs emotions.

If you ever figure that one out, please share it with the rest of us.

 

[Craig_AR]

Not sure how to convince people against their will, but a start would be to get them to think about things for themselves with facts vs emotions.

For us left-brain, high logic, STEM-type folks, that sounds good. However, as the Madison Avenue marketing types who grew out of Edward L. Bernays' 1928 Propaganda book have pretty well proven, it is the emotional hook that is essential to getting most folks to pay attention. If you can strike the right emotional chord, you may be able to present facts and logic to reach the goal conclusion.

"It's for the children!"
"We must do SOMETHING!"

 

[whughett]

So is the general consensus that if not a gun don’t carry any style of weapon. No really following the thought process in this thread.
A favorite of the antis, police in particular is don’t have a gun it can be turned against you.

 

[Frank Ettin]

So is the general consensus that if not a gun don’t carry any style of weapon. No really following the thought process in this thread.
A favorite of the antis, police in particular is don’t have a gun it can be turned against you.

No, I don't think that's correct at all. I think the real message is that just having something that can be used as a weapon isn't enough. A knife, or a club, or pepper spray, or a gun isn't a magic charm. It won't keep you safe just by being there.

For a weapon, whatever it might be, to be useful one must have the will (mindset) and some basic ability (skillset) to use it. And while we hear the stories about the how having a weapon can dissuade an assailant from pressing an attack, that really only works if the assailant is convinced that his selected victim can and will use the weapon.

Come to think of it, perhaps the OP's first step could be buying his son's mother a copy of Jeff Cooper's Principles of Personal Defense.