Good morning, gentlemen. Thank you for your prescient and sometimes funny comments. All my books (well, the first two), are available in good paperback (not cheap stuff) and eBook, so I think that's Kindle. Not sure. "Real people"? No, my wife and are are over 60 and desperately afraid of the Covid. We live in D.C. Just trying to hold on until we get the vaccine. At first, I liked the idea of going to a gunshop or shooting club and learning hands on, but that will not happen for a long while yet. I am going to read the suggestions, but not Fleming. I felt a while ago I had to read one of his books and after 50 pages of Casino Royal, I gave up. Not being funny, but I'm a better writer. Of course, I will never sell like he has done, and I don't care. I retired at 58 and started writing, never for the money, but for the learning experience and the satisfaction of having achieved something. I love the research, especially of a subject of which I know nothing (like guns, as you can see). My project today is to begin watching the numerous videos on YouTube concerning the FN Model 1910; that's the chosen weapon and I'll stick with it. Thank you so much for all your comments. I kind of take them in by osmosis, not understanding everything, but as I learn more I will revisit them and finetune my own observations. Stay safe everyone.
Novelist Seeking Help With Guns
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The simple way to get any gun to malfunction is to feed it bad ammo. So let's say the gun is in good condition and the person handling it is knowledgeable about guns and has checked it out carefully. But if a round fails to fire, the gun will need to be hand-cycled to load the next round. That takes a bit of time (not much, but some--maybe a second or two) and usually requires two hands. Perhaps the ammo is old and has been stored in poor conditions, or maybe it has been contaminated with oil or solvent that has deactivated the primer. Or perhaps it's just a defective round to begin with--those are not likely, but it does happen rarely.
Or maybe someone put a dummy round (one that looks right but is inert) in the magazine on purpose to sabotage the guy.
The user would hear a click and realize the gun didn't fire. If they were quick and had good training, they would quickly rack the slide to eject the bad round and load another round and then try to shoot again.
Another possibility in a bad round is for the primer to fire but for the actual powder charge in the cartridge case to fail to ignite. Commonly referred to as a 'squib' an occurrence like that could cause the bullet to go partway down the barrel and then stick. The gun probably won't cycle (it will jam), but if it does cycle (or if the shooter hand-cycles the firearm), when the next round fires, the bullet hitting the other bullet stuck in the barrel has the potential to cause significant damage to the gun and may even potentially injure the shooter.
The sound of the round firing without the powder charge would be significantly quieter than normal. An experienced shooter would recognize that something unusual had happened, but might choose to just try to fire the gun again anyway--nothing at all would happen if the gun didn't cycle. If the gun didn't cycle (which is likely from a squib) after they tried to fire it (or maybe before attempting to fire it) they might try to hand-cycle the gun by racking the slide. If the bullet went far enough down the bore, the next round would chamber. If the bullet just barely moved out of the cartridge, it might prevent the next round from being chambered. In the former case (round chambers but there's a bullet lodged in the barrel), firing the gun would create potential for the gun to break from the stress of firing a bullet into an obstructed bore, potentially injuring the shooter. If the next round didn't chamber because the bullet hadn't moved far enough down the bore to allow the next round room to go into the chamber, the shooter would be unable to get the gun to work no matter what they did. Fixing the gun would require taking it apart and pounding the bullet out of the barrel using a rod and a hammer.
If the round is bad, then that could happen at any point in the firing sequence, even with the first round, so that's a convenient way of inducing a failure any time you want to have one.
Or maybe someone put a dummy round (one that looks right but is inert) in the magazine on purpose to sabotage the guy.
The user would hear a click and realize the gun didn't fire. If they were quick and had good training, they would quickly rack the slide to eject the bad round and load another round and then try to shoot again.
Another possibility in a bad round is for the primer to fire but for the actual powder charge in the cartridge case to fail to ignite. Commonly referred to as a 'squib' an occurrence like that could cause the bullet to go partway down the barrel and then stick. The gun probably won't cycle (it will jam), but if it does cycle (or if the shooter hand-cycles the firearm), when the next round fires, the bullet hitting the other bullet stuck in the barrel has the potential to cause significant damage to the gun and may even potentially injure the shooter.
The sound of the round firing without the powder charge would be significantly quieter than normal. An experienced shooter would recognize that something unusual had happened, but might choose to just try to fire the gun again anyway--nothing at all would happen if the gun didn't cycle. If the gun didn't cycle (which is likely from a squib) after they tried to fire it (or maybe before attempting to fire it) they might try to hand-cycle the gun by racking the slide. If the bullet went far enough down the bore, the next round would chamber. If the bullet just barely moved out of the cartridge, it might prevent the next round from being chambered. In the former case (round chambers but there's a bullet lodged in the barrel), firing the gun would create potential for the gun to break from the stress of firing a bullet into an obstructed bore, potentially injuring the shooter. If the next round didn't chamber because the bullet hadn't moved far enough down the bore to allow the next round room to go into the chamber, the shooter would be unable to get the gun to work no matter what they did. Fixing the gun would require taking it apart and pounding the bullet out of the barrel using a rod and a hammer.
If the round is bad, then that could happen at any point in the firing sequence, even with the first round, so that's a convenient way of inducing a failure any time you want to have one.
walnut1704
Member
I'll agree with this. I read some books and there's so much detail about the weapon it's ridiculous. Or it's something really exotic or rare that seems like it was put there to impress the reader with the writer's knowledge. It doesn't. The reality is most guns that are actually carried and used are rather common.
Wow, this is really good stuff, gents. I very much appreciate the discussion of the failure. Excellent. I'm going with the FN 1910 because he will have a limited choice and it would be common in Belgium to find that gun, yes? I've been watching YouTube and everyone seems to like the gun for close up use (which is what I intended). It's a 'pretty' gun (sorry), and fits very nicely in the hand and is easily concealable and doesn't get caught on clothing, so a good choice, I think. This man is not a Day of the Jackal million dollar shooter. But for close up, two shots to the head, I hope the .32 acp is a good choice. Am I wrong? The dummy round is a very interesting idea which I had not considered. This adds a whole new dimension. Again, thank you so much for your comments.
Up close and 2 shots to the brain is pretty effective with just about any caliber. The .32ACP is a good choice because that is one of the chamberings for the gun you have chosen. In .32ACP (if the guy is European, he would might be more likely to have referred to it as the 7.65 Browning or 7.65mm Browning) the FN 1910 would have been able to hold 7 rounds in the magazine and another one in the chamber for a total of up to 8. As mentioned before, some shooters might choose not to load a round in the chamber for carry.
A dummy round, with no other problems wouldn't hold up an experienced/well-trained modern shooter for more than a second or two. The typical way to deal with this kind of a problem (autopistol doesn't fire when you expect it to but there are no external clues as to what happened) is to tap the bottom of the magazine (to seat it in case it wasn't seated fully which would have resulted in a round failing to feed), rack the slide (to load a new round, either to eject and replace a bad round or because one didn't feed in the first place) and then fire. That can be done very quickly if someone has trained to do it.
I don't know what sort of malfunction training would have been taught during the time frame of your story. Maybe someone else here knows.
A dummy round, with no other problems wouldn't hold up an experienced/well-trained modern shooter for more than a second or two. The typical way to deal with this kind of a problem (autopistol doesn't fire when you expect it to but there are no external clues as to what happened) is to tap the bottom of the magazine (to seat it in case it wasn't seated fully which would have resulted in a round failing to feed), rack the slide (to load a new round, either to eject and replace a bad round or because one didn't feed in the first place) and then fire. That can be done very quickly if someone has trained to do it.
I don't know what sort of malfunction training would have been taught during the time frame of your story. Maybe someone else here knows.
Hokkmike
Member
Get some empathetic immersion - go shoot. You can rent these buggers and fire away. Capstick, a favorite shooting author of mine, talked about the lure of the "smell of gun powder" and "thrill of shooting man eaters" from experience in the field. Nothing hits home like knowing....
Since you are in DC (I just left the area, for good, I hope), once COVID is under control, you may want to take a visit to Elite Shooting Sports over in Manassas...it is a safe, well run facility with many knowledgeable employees regarding all manner of firearms. It is a great place to try shooting for the first time as well.
whughett
Member
L
Let alone spend hours doing it, and with the “dust” comment apparently while still in the gun.Files the firing pin to a point??? Come-on Bond is an idiot!NObody files the firing pin to a point!
Patocazador
Member
Excellent reference to the shooting of Archduke Ferdinand and his wife by a Serbian which triggered the start of the "Great War." (WW1)
The same pistol was marketed by Browning in the US as the Browning model 1955. The FN 1910 was available in both 7.65 (.32 auto) and .380 (9mm kurz).
This historical fact may have some bearing on your potential novel but, regardless, it is an interesting piece of history.
I have both the FN 1910 and the Browning 1955 and neither has jammed or FTF with factory or handloaded ammo.
KevininPa
Member
I appreciate the fact that you want to do this correctly. Whenever an author totally messes up a gun reference, I end up in a palm to forehead "yeesh!" moment. Some authors never tried to research firearms(Stephen King) and others got better(Dean Koontz). I would be interested in reading your books if you'd be willing to drop a few titles here. A well researched and written book is still a pleasure to me.
Kevin Rohrer
Member
Files the firing pin to a point??? Come-on Bond is an idiot!
Which is an excellent example of gets written by someone who knows nothing about firearms. The Jack Reacher series is just as bad. The author doesn't even know a good fighting knife from a really bad one, which is why I gave-up on that series after forcing myself to finish the 2nd book.
Thank you so much for more excellent comments. Right now, as I explained before, I'm not interested in meeting people at a gun range, but I also admit, that just trying it once would undoubtedly be beneficial to me. I will discuss with the wife once we have the vaccine. Meanwhile, the internet offers so much and forums such as this are great ways to learn. I'm surprised you mention (well-known) authors who don't take the time to research these things. But, remember, these guys are always on deadlines and are doing it for a living: I'm doing neither. I know I'll never sell a lot of books, but I enjoy the research and accomplishment of actually getting the book made. I knew about Princip and his historical act, but never knew the gun type. Apparently, there remains some debate, but generally everyone says it was the 1910. It does seem worth incorporating into the story as background. I enjoy Modern History enormously. Yes, I did notice that the Europeans don't refer to the rounds as .32. Give me a little time and I'll put together the scenario as I understand it happening and, for sure, I'll run it by you guys to correct any technicalities. I'm currently working on the background of a street in Ostend and the Royal Astor hotel (now gone). This novel remains very much in early stages and is open to some adjustment. My previous two books were, I admit afterwards, complicated and too full, if that makes sense. I spent so much on an editor whose biggest accomplishment was removing an enormous amount of what I had written. I want to make this one more about character and simpler. Again, thank you everyone for your comments. KevininPA, this is my new website (which I made myself, which is why it's a little clunky), but you can see my first two books there: https://www.seancurrie.net/
CapnMac
Member
This could be an opportunity for some exposition, too.
"'Ere, take this, ees un 7.65, c'est bonne, no?"
"Sheesh," he thought, "A .32, not much, but better than a .25acp."
I suspect you'll get plenty of help from the technical side here. Having dabbled some in writing (usually fiction, usually pretty heavy on firearms, usually in some kind of historical setting) I'd be happy to pass along any half-decent advice or suggests I've discovered so far if you're interested. Some of that's secondhand. Most is a result of me discovering brick walls with my forehead.
I'd read it, with the caveat that the one I posted a while back got locked within three replies.
Not casting aspersions on the management by any stretch, but still something of a disappointment. Private messages may be the way to go on that front.
I'd read it, with the caveat that the one I posted a while back got locked within three replies.
Not casting aspersions on the management by any stretch, but still something of a disappointment. Private messages may be the way to go on that front.
Old Dog
Member
Not to derail the OP's thread, but Kevin Rohrer is exactly right -- the author he mentions also seems to have done very little research about the U.S. military or American law enforcement (at least in the first couple books in the series, which I actually read), and his character's idiosyncrasies are so annoyingly unrealistic as to be unbelievable. (I'm amazed that series is still selling so many books)
So it is always nice to see a writer asking for any kind of information to help him/her flesh out historical or technical details, rather than just making things up (or perpetuating myths, stereotypes, lies, untrue legends, misinformation, etc.).
BLACKHAWKNJ
Member
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2007
- Messages
- 1,122
In my experience jams in semiautos are usually caused by:
1. Magazines
2. Built up debris
One period detail-if the story is set in 1962 the character would be using FMJ ammo.
1. Magazines
2. Built up debris
One period detail-if the story is set in 1962 the character would be using FMJ ammo.
Howland937
Member
There's not much I can add. Actually, theres nothing I can add besides commending you for trying to "get it right". Hopefully your portrayal is as accurate as you hope it to be, and the character using a firearm does so in a safe, responsible manner.
In addition, a "Thanks to the knowledgeable folks at THR" in the acknowledgements would be a nice touch
(make sure it says knowledgeable, so everyone will know you're not referring to me)
In addition, a "Thanks to the knowledgeable folks at THR" in the acknowledgements would be a nice touch
(make sure it says knowledgeable, so everyone will know you're not referring to me)
Kevin Rohrer
Member
Don't forget limp-wristing a blowback auto.
Kevin Rohrer
Member
^
^^This^^
You and I must have the same backgrounds.
I said the exact same thing to myself. My guess is that his readers are those who have never been in the military and/or in public safety, so they do not recognize the need for a Suspension of Belief. Granted, everyone likes the Hero to be bigger than life, but the Reacher character acts like Superman. I am surprised he is not equipped w/ a cape.
I am an aspiring author myself and am in the beginning of a novel about a character somewhat like Reacher. However, my character knows the difference between a Ka-bar and a butter knife, and will never disengage the safety on his Glock (not that he would ever lower himself to carry such a weapon).
commygun
Member
Concealable and Belgian and readily available in postwar Europe. Sounds like you nailed it right off. A FN1910 in 7.65 fits perfectly.
commygun
Member
You could foreshadow a jam by some mention of heavily tarnished ammunition. Is your protagonist somewhat shady? Is the gun obtained on the street? Perhaps the ammo isn’t absolutely functional. A misfire is easy to describe and easily understood. Your boy would have to rack the slide to eject the misfired cartridge and chamber the next one.
How long to write a book? I will be fortunate to publish in 2021, but I'll do my best. This will be shorter and simpler. FMJ ammo, got it. Yes, of course I will acknowledge the forum, don't worry about that. I started writing something which I'm going to run by you guys. Question?? Do "blank"/non-operative shells look like the real ones? Can you tell the difference?
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