NPR program to examine CCW at colleges

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Make sure to include this lingo: if someone was "properly trained" and permitted to CCW then......

Are there any statistics to compare range time and accuracy of LEO's v/s CCW holders.
 
Folks: Do call in but keep your point clear and short. For the most part it is a very (including my wife) highly educated crowd that has a liberal anti gun leaning at least in Cali.). Many have never been expossed to fire arms and just think they are evil. I can safely say many in KPFK audience are people that still don't believe that the exteremists in the "religion of peace" would like to kill you, me, and any inocent family member we may have, and don't understand there are just evil people out ther that will kill you. Again call in and keep it short and smart/simple. This is a great opportunity, lets not blow it.
 
The basic flaw in this whole thing is age. Most college students don't hit 21 til their junior or senior year and most states have a 21 minimum for CHL/CCW permits.
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So, I'll take half the student body, all of the faculty, and staff, eligible to carry, rather than none.
 
Just finished listening

They had an equal amount of pro and anti callers on. But the two university people they had as guests (one from Iowa and one from New York state) regurgitated the same rhetoric about how college students don't have the training to handle emergency situations.:barf:
 
and I, too, just finished listening--

This program was tightly edited, to say the least. I'll bet that not only the experts but also the call-ins were not only pre-screened, but pre-ordained / selected.

It represented a 'good,' rational discussion of the type that (non-) thinking NPR listeners want.

The undercurrent, of course, was in those two different cultural perspectives on how to live:

1. As a person of power, with privileges granted by employment, status, and under the control government regulation, and

2. As a person confronted with a lethal threat, and who is resolved to survive.

Nothing new, really--but who is Rebecca Roberts? Where was Neal Conan? (sp?)

Jim H.
 
A bunch of us called in recently to the Kojo show when Parker was announced and they selectively allowed folks on....the next day they gave Fenty an exclusive.

Your Tax Dollars at work to provide unbiased coverage
 
I was actually impressed

Frankly, I thought it was fairly well done. I expected the guest speakers to be typically academic and anti (and they were). But, the commentator was fairly objective. Also, the pro CCW callers generally came off as thoughtful, insightful and compelling. I believe it was as good as or better than we could have expected given the venue.

The student who claimed that he has a CCW and CHL and has to leave his gun in the car sounded very credible. The police officer from Ohio, although he wasn't as pro-civilian carry as I would have preferred, did take it straight to the Executive Director for the Board of Regents from Iowa for creating a terrible situation which leaves their officers unarmed. This clearly undermined the credibility of the Exec's argument, and frankly made his statement regarding "having weapons available at the president's discretion" sound ridiculous.

The ex-military woman sounded great and I believe came across very compelling as well. Even the gentleman who claimed to be a professor (who did not own a handgun) supported the right of a person who has been deemed capable by the State, to conceal-carry on campus like they would anywhere else. This is EXACTLY the kind of testimonial we need - non-shooters who nonetheless understand and support the argument of self-reliance in these situations.

All in all, I believe we got a credible cross-section of supporting players without a single perceived redneck in the mix. The opposition's debate was weak at best.

It could have been MUCH worse.

stellarpod
 
Sprry I missed this!

Some points:

It is not rare for schools to sell wine and beer to of age students in on campus pubs or restaurants

It is not the time to prattle about under 21s should carry - let's be pragmatic rather than absolutist

The emphasis should be on teachers and staff as responsible - again pragmatic - rather than stressing the armed student.

You need to make sure this applies to private schools. As I said elsewhere you have to break 'private property' old dinosaurs on this one. Otherwise, the State U. student drives over to Old Private U.
 
i havent had a single college class where everyone was under 21.
Even freshman year there were adults in my core classes.
I am 22 and still go to college and would certainly love to carry there.
Until then I guess i'll just keep fighting for the window seat
 
As I said elsewhere you have to break 'private property' old dinosaurs on this one
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Speaking as an Old Dinosaur who's probably a good deal younger than you, I find it rather amusing that a gun forum poster doesn't understand the concept of PRIVATE PROPERTY.

Your house is your castle, a business owners business is his castle, etc. etc.

Either you own your and have the ability to make rules governing it or you don't, I don't see what is so complicated. State schools are public property, of course CCW should be legal. But a private business (or school) is just that private.

If you don't like the rules, either work to change them via boycott, shop elsewhere, or break the rules and face the punishment if you're caught.

Don't go to the state legislature and demand that they override the judgement of the (misguided) people you disagree with.

And don't trot out the bullhocky of the "2nd amendment". The second amendment protects my right to keep and bear arms. But it doesn't protect my right to carry into your house without your permission... what is so hard about this issue!

atek3

PS Edited to add that I'm a College Student at a Private School with a dumb no-guns policy... that I respect. So if anything I have much more to lose than your average internet gun forum poster.
 
atek3,

if you're in hangover ...

i didn't bother checking in my stuff with campus po. ever. as far as i was concerned NH was a free state and neither the Dean or the President of the college could tell me what to do with my stuff on non-College property (even if I was residing in a College-recognized organization).

when that bozo ed shanahan outlawed handguns on campus, i said f*ck it and slept with all my toys (pistols and EBR's) under my crib on webster ave for most of my four years there with nary a problem. they were locked up when not in use.
 
My letter

Here's my letter to Andrew Callisto, who is the interim Head of Public Safety at Syracuse, and was a guest on the program:

Dear Mr. Callisto,

I'm writing to take issue with your statement on NPR's "Talk of the Nation" that college students do not have the same extensive training as police officers to be able to handle emergencies.

The extensive training that police officers receive is necessary because their full time job is to intervene in situations, protect others and enforce the law. The only thing law-abiding citizens who carry weapons want is to have the ability to react in an emergency. It is not necessary for private citizens to have the same extensive training that police officers get in order to accomplish this.

Would you be opposed to people keeping fire extinguishers in their homes on the grounds that they did not graduate from the local fire academy?

Sincerely,
Michael L. Bane
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If you missed the program, the audio of it should be posted on the NPR website this evening.
 
If your private property is your castle, then when a random shooter shows up at your castle - have the knights of the round table save your butt, not the police. Have PRIVATE security.

If you open your castle to the public for business, you give up some castle rights. You can't discriminate against folks on the basis of race and religion. If you think you can because you are a private property dinosaur, then I really don't respect you and think your rant on private property is more deeply flawed.

If you open for business, you have no right to deny others the right to protect themselves.

Thus, I understand the issue better than some dinosaur. If your castle is on fire, don't have part of my taxes put it out. Don't be a hypocrit. You want public help and then you deny the public their right to defend themselves when you opened yourself for business.
 
So I caught the end of the show....

The last caller to call in indicated that he would feel more comfortable if his son (a college student at Iowa State) were allowed to carry a gun. He then rationalized that though the campus cops receive training in all sorts of exotic weaponry, it did no good to the students killed in Virginia Tech. The Chief security person on the show had no response. He basically said that it is a very emotional time right now, and we need to act with logic and reason. I agree, and the caller is right. It is also funny to note that if callers were calling in to say that all guns need to be banned, and that campus security should be issued more exotic weapons, he would not have the same response. He would probably agree with that.

Most of the victims died when the police were already on scene. The police have been trained in super-combat skills, but in the end. Those skills did no good.

I will agree that there is the potential for accidental shootings and the like. However, those can be prevented. Just require the training in order to obtain a CCW and allow CCW holders to carry on campus. That simple.

The guest on the show also talked about an armed civilian being mistaken for the shooter. I don't see that as a problem, just identify yourself to approaching LE, just as any other plain clothed officer would do.

With the advent of "Shall Issue" many individuals have applied and received CCW permits. I don't see an increase in gun crime, nor do I see CCW permit holders committing gun crimes (for the most part).
 
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Well, gee...if you're going to die, I guess it's better to do so cowering under a desk. 'Victim status' is assured. This is the morally superior position and validates the power of the State.
 
Please remember, this is the Activism forum. Posts are supposed to address ways to advance RKBA through action. Posts that are the functional equivalent of "+1" or the rehash of some Gunnie/RKBA/Libertarian rant are best placed in L&P.

Actually, they're not particularly useful there, either. But at least that is a choir that likes to be preached at. Here we're discussing how to reach the congregation.

Mike ;)
 
If your private property is your castle, then when a random shooter shows up at your castle - have the knights of the round table save your butt, not the police. Have PRIVATE security.
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Under the GEM system of private property management what level of private security would be required for a business to set rules regarding weapon possession on their property? Or are you simply saying that businesses can not make rules regarding weapons on their property. If I lose business because some chest thumper from arfcom carries an AR-15 slung on my property can I ban rifles? Oh, I get it, I can regulate open carry, but not concealed carry. If I'm a swimming pool owner, can I ban pistols from the deck of the pool?

If you open your castle to the public for business, you give up some castle rights. You can't discriminate against folks on the basis of race and religion.
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Nonsense, a) a private school is not a "public accommodation" and thus required to let anyone and everyone on their property b) Comparing racial discrimination to setting limitations on the level of ordinance carried on to your property is really a BS argument. If I rent out a spare bedroom can I or can I not decide who carries what on my property? What if I rent out two rooms... you see where I'm going with this one?

If you think you can because you are a private property dinosaur, then I really don't respect you and think your rant on private property is more deeply flawed.
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If you think carrying a gun is the same being black or jewish, it's just something you "are" I think you need understand that "gun" rights are just a subset of property rights. You can't have the former without the latter.

If you open for business, you have no right to deny others the right to protect themselves.
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NONSENSE! Suppose I operate a secured Vault. I have metal detectors, bomb sniffing dogs, and 4 armed guards per customer. I better have the ability to control who enters my property and what they carry. If you really feel that your "rights" as some person that managed to scrawl his name on some government piece of paper transend my rights as property owner please go back and re-read Locke, Black, Jefferson, and Blackstone.

Now on the other hand, if we're talking about a supermarket, with no armed guards, and no metal detectors, a "no-guns" policy is simply stupid posturing, and should be dealt with using boycotts, letters to management, and public relations.

Thus, I understand the issue better than some dinosaur.
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Thus, you have the ability to argue on the internet, which makes you qualified for...

If your castle is on fire, don't have part of my taxes put it out. Don't be a hypocrit. You want public help and then you deny the public their right to defend themselves when you opened yourself for business.
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So what you're arguing is that as long as we pay taxes to provide for government services, it's the government that should decide how any business can use its property. I pay taxes for the government to defend me and my property. I also say that I have the right to decide who carries what on my property. I don't understand why some "gun rights" advocates find this a major contradiction.

If letting the public onto my property destroys my property rights in the eyes of other gun owners, more than the second amendment is in jeopardy in the US.

atek3
 
I see that two THRs' comments made it through the censor

Actually, Michael, if one considers the stereotypical NPR audience, the profile of responses is fairly 'balanced'--and much more so than it would have been five or ten years ago.

It is obvious that NPR is running a tightly-edited operation, from the show on down to the blog commentary. Now, if they were just located in the MW instead of on the EC, we might have a less-irrational perspective.

I haven't tried another post; I assume it will not be put up.

Jim H.
 
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