NRA 50 yard bullseye?

[cavman]

I am new to the sport and have only about 150 rounds of .45 under my belt to date so far, but am thinking about pursuing shooting a little more. i.e. going to a shoot here or there and entering some level of competition.

I was on the NRA web page (nracentral.com) which I used to join a couple of weeks ago, as I said to myself," Self, if you are going to own a gun, support the guys that are in your corner". Anyways, whilst there, I saw some of the marksman sports and thought that they would be great to get into and get better at shooting.

So last Tuesday, I was at my local indoor range and shot my best so far. However, it became apparent to me that my 9 shots were at 8 yards and Bullseye is at 50!!

It looks like I got 9 tens (my best) and a few x's, but I can't for the life of me figure how I am ever going to hit something 50 yards away.

Any suggestions?

Attached is my best group, but happily most targets that night were similar. A good day for me, anyways..

cavman

 

[M2 Carbine]

I don't know how big the NRA 50 yard pistol bullseye is.

But you shoot the same at 50 yards as you do at 15 yards.

Maintain good slight alignment and squeeze the trigger.

I find it better to hold on the center of the bull at 50 yards instead of a 6 o'clock hold. With old eyes the target isn't too clear at that distance for me.

You may have to raise the front sight a small amount for bullet drop.

I use these same targets, printed on 8x11 paper, for everything from 100 yards to 5 yards.

I gave this pistol to a friend and wanted to show him how it shot.

 

[bdutton]

50 yard slowfire only.

You need a good accurate gun. The posted target is nice though. But that gun is designed for close quarters shooting.

Get yourself a nice accurate .22. Pardini and Benelli make nice ones for about $1000. Or, get a decent used high standard for about $500-700. Or get a decent Buckmark or Ruger 22/45 and have a trigger job done on them for a combined $400-500.

Then, get yourself a nice caspian 1922 slide and frame (about $400-$500) and send that out to a bullseye gunsmith to build into a nice custom .45 for about $1000-1200.

Get yourself a dillon 550b reloading press and reloading supplies for the .45 (about $500-700) and get a recipe for a good accurate 50yard load.

Join a local club (lots in VA) and watch for local bullseye matches to be held.

Now, if the money scares you, just go with a decent .22 target pistol and shoot lots of 900's and indoor league matches. Bullseye is a lot of fun. But like everything, costs money to do.

BTW: Indoor bullseye is typically shot at 50 feet.

 

[cavman]

Good recommedations. Appreciated.

I bought the Ruger p345 .45 and a Ruger MarkIII Hunter .22 within a few weeks of each other a few months back, and both are still new to me, both in terms of time of ownership as well as rounds spent. The .45 to get a .45 and to see if I could shoot it, and the .22 as I had read on THR that one should shoot .22s all day for good practice for the .45!!

I went to my local Greentop sporting goods store looking for a Kimber cdp 1911 style .45,but they had none. I ended up getting the Ruger instead that day as I had read many good reports about the p345 and it fit in my hand nicely. As I had no real shooting experiences (except 12ga skeet some years back), and no intentions other than just to try out shooting, I bought with little foresight. Beginner.

The thought of buying an additional .45 because the Ruger is inadequate is disappointing, but I will wait and see.

I hadn't heard of 900's only, just the 2700's. I will check that out. Thanks. My indoor range I don't believe sponsors shooting competitions. Setting out smaller targets at 50 feet while there would be a good way to practice. I hadn't thought of that.

The Dillon 550rb has been looked at. Will just have to see how spontaneous I am on that one!!

Thanks again

cavman

 

[bdutton]

2700's are just 3-900's. .22, CF, .45. A good 1911 can double as the CF gun.

The Ruger looks like a nice carry gun as it is compact but you will need an accurized full sized 1911 .45 to compete.

Start out with indoor league .22 shooting 300's (aka national match course).

a quick google of Virginia and Bullseye turned up this website:

http://www.myvssa.org/index.html

email: [email protected] for info on bullseye leagues in Virginia.

Not sure where you are exactly but here is a website with matches:

http://quanticoshootingclub.com/qsc.php?view=competition&type=pistol

Also, you can go to http://www.bullseyepistol.com/ to learn more about bullseye shooting.

Lots of matches listed on this website: http://www.tsra.com/NRA_Sub.htm

 

[cavman]

The bullseyepistol.com website appears to be really informative. Looks good. I was thinking about just using the .45 until I "grew into" it as I hopefully get better, but there was an opinion there that actually recommends against that.
I suppose progressively stepping out from my 8 yards three or so yards at a time will at least indicate to me how accurate this Ruger .45 really is.

Website sure does stress an accurized .45 tho'. Allows for the fact that a .22 out of the box will be more likely to be excellent. Let's hope that the markIII Hunter will be one of those.


Thanks,
Have a great day
cavman

 

[Canuck-IL]

Most folks get a trigger job and maybe an ortho grip for the Rugers and that's it...usually shoot almost any ammo accurately enough. Volquartsen has a do-it-yourself trigger kit that is supposedly pretty good...biggest issue is the standard difficulty of re-assembling a Ruger for the first time.

This site will walk you through the tricky parts...
http://www.1bad69.com/ruger/
/Bryan

 

[Steve C]

Check the local clubs in your area and see if they have a Bullseye league or night. The gun Club in my area has a limited Bullseye night every week where the course of fire is limited to the .22 LR only. The course of fire is 20 rounds on a reduced Slow fire target at 25 yds, 20 rounds timed and 20 rounds rapid fire. This makes for about 1 ½ -2 hours of fun in the evening. I belong to our companies shooting league and we shoot the same course.

A full Bullseye match is an all day event with essentially the same course of fire I listed above but for each of the pistol categories; Rimfire, Centerfire and Service Pistol. You can be competitive with your Ruger MkIII in an friendly league shoot and there’s no need to invest $1K or more on a Pardini. These leagues are usually handicapped or shooters are classified into groups so that you can be competitive without investing years of practice. Shooting these events are supposed to be fun , not a task, so try it out. There’s no need to invest in a bunch more stuff right now as learning what equipment and modifications you’d like will come with the experience. The only thing that I’d suggest you buy or bring with you is a spotting scope so you can see your hits on target. I use a cheap BSA 20x but a pair of Binoculars will work in a pinch.

Remember that in Bullseye its one handed shooting only. Red dot sights and scopes are allowed. A 25 yd slow fire target has a 10 ring that’s only about the size of a nickel .

 

[cavman]

Encouraging

It is encouraging to hear that with only some minor work to the Hunter .22 that it can be improved, such as that trigger. I went onto the Volquartsen webpage and the new trigger is set for 2.5lbs of pressure. I could not find on the Ruger webpage anywhere what it is now. I have only shot my pistols so I have very little reference as to what difference the 2.5lbs trigger of Volquartsen would be. is mine curently double at 5lbs? Triple at 7.5lbs? Is 5lbs really that significant? An inch or six or 12 due to wobble at 25 yards? Like I said I have no reference point except my Hunter and I don't even know what its trigger pull is.

Thanks for the site to 1bad69.com to put the MarkIII back together!! I have gotten better. There is a little trick that I think I have figured out, now. It didn't help that the manual was wrong, although it has been corrected now I think. Once I did it sucessfully three times in a row I think that I have finally gotten it down. Initial attepts were frustrating...expecially using a misleading manual.

I am glad to hear that some enhancements are allowed i.e. optics or dot sights. Although I thought that I had read that projections were not allowed which I understood to be what a dot sight is. In any case if I was to give this a real "go" I would probably get some optical assistance as I don't think that I can see a nickel from 25 yards away.

Appreciate all the good ideas
have a great day
cavman

 

[cavman]

Hunter MarkIII .22 Trigger

I was able to find this:
http://www.gunblast.com/Ruger_MarkIII-Hunter.htm

and near the bottom by the ammo groups he states that his trigger measured a little under 3lbs for the trigger (out of the box I assume).

I guess I will hold off on the Volquartsen trigger (2.5lbs) for now and practice practice.

thanks,
cavman

ps he mentions "creep" and "overtravel" which I have heard before but have no idea what that refers to

 

[ball3006]

I have shot bullseye with a standard....

Ruger 4 inch pistol. It had a red dot on it. Did not do too bad. That pistol combination made you really pay attention to how you were shooting. The 50 yard target is about 10 inches across the black part. The 25 yard target is a little smaller. Most gun shops have the target centers. There is a beginners class in bullseye and you work up from there. I had a couple of Camp Perry class shooters teach me how to shoot.....chris3

 

[Kramer Krazy]

Shoot at smaller targets for closer distances.......Like a 0.5" or 1" dot at 10-15 yards......Like Mel Gibson said in "The Patriot"......"Aim small, miss small."

 

[Archie]

The Ruger is a decent 22

I won the 11th Naval Distract Gallery championship in 1973 with a stock Ruger MkI.

The Ruger 45 is not a 'competitive' centerfire gun, if 'competitive' means winning. If it's the only gun you have, you can learn a lot with it. You won't win many championships, but you will learn a lot about shooting. And, you will probably find you really want one of those fancy target guns. At the least, you will be very proficient with your self-defense gun; never a bad thing. For the bullseye matches, you'll want to shoot a mild target type load. If you don't reload, you'll find you will want to. White box hardball is fairly good ammo, but not for a 90 round bullseye course.

Sooner or later, you will find a shooter who wants to sell his target pistol. Or maybe you'll see one a gun show. So keep shooting and keep looking. All this stuff takes time. (Unless you're Bill Gates' kid or something - go buy a gun shop.)

 

[Graystar]

I can't for the life of me figure how I am ever going to hit something 50 yards away.

In truth, bullseye shooting is less about aim and more about procedure. In order to cut the X consistently you need to master stance, breathing, and balance (amongst other things.) Each shot of the slow fire course is a ritual in itself...a series of carefully practiced and refined steps that, when performed properly, result in a hole in the center of a piece of paper located 50 yards away.

The contradictory thing about bullseye shooting that your focus is on the front sight of the gun. The target itself is just a blur (if it isn’t then you’re not sighting properly.) The trick is to learn how to position that blur over your sight so that your shot lands in the center. It’s an extremely technical form of shooting. That’s why I like it.

The Ruger Mark series is very good and you don't need to do anything to the gun to get Master level scores. There's lots you can do to a Ruger, but you really need to know well the gun you have now in order to know if any changes actually improve the gun. Just shoot it for several thousand rounds before changing anything.

 

[brickeyee]

"The contradictory thing about bullseye shooting that your focus is on the front sight of the gun. "

Contradictory to what?
The hit the target mantra for just about any habdgun shooting has been 'Front site! Front site!' for a long time now (at least since the wave and point method fell aaway).
It only takes a fraction to move the focus from teh BG to the front site long enough to get a site picture.

Bullseye is consistency and position. Do the same thing every time, down to the muscle tension on the arm holding the weapon.
Watch a bullseye shooter set up some time. Foot position puts the weapon on the target, not arm position. The arm is always held in the same position and the entire body rotated by moving the foot position.
I have not competed for a while due to medical problems.

S&W 41s were OK for most competition. Pardinis and Hammerlis such show up at the higher levels.
For the ‘any center fire’ most beginners use the .45 to save on a gun, S&W 52s were popular for a long time but have been out of production for a while now. I now some of the guys have been using a 1911 in .38 Super (since the Nonte chamber solved the headspace problem 35 years ago).
And a 1911 is still the most common in the .45 ACP stage (haven’t seen a revolver in years).
I used to win beer money by out-shooting folks and not even looking at the target between shots. Align. Fire. Recover position. Fire. It would not be competitive (the groups were larger than correctly sited shots) but it could beat a lot of people not into Bullseye.

The 3 gun 2700 matches get pretty long and tiring, but it is stil a fun game.

 

[cavman]

Contradictory indeed.

Before I picked up the .45 I thought that you shot at what you were looking at. Then at the range for the first time there was a sign that showed 'sight alignment', or something along those lines. (Because I am so far "self-taught" I have been picking up everything by reading.) It was then that I learned that one needed to "NOT" look at what one is targeting, but rather the front sight of the gun. So I see from the viewpoint of a novice/ignorant shooter, it is indeed contradictory to focus on the gun sight rather that the target itself. Now I know better

The small targets are a good idea. I think in theory it will be easier to hit small and close father than far. In theory...we will see.

Getting the proper techniques down will be the hardest part I think without expert instruction. There is only so much that one can learn by the books.

Great advice and insights,

have a great day
cavman

 

[YodaVader]

I can't for the life of me figure how I am ever going to hit something 50 yards away.

Any suggestions?


With only 150 rounds of 45 under your belt all you need is a lot more practice. Over time what you once thought was difficult or even impossible will become routine.

The Ruger 22 will work for bullseye. Nearly all those I see using 22 Rugers in our indoor leagues have trigger wok performed. I have used my MKII with Clark trigger work and shoot it as well as my more expensive Smith 41. The short barrel gun in this pic is my bullseye 22.

For the centerfire/45 stages , to be competetive you will eventually have to buy or have built - a dedicated bullseye gun.

 

[Rockstar]

You'll probably find Bullseye to be a really boring shooting sport, participated in primarily by overweight old guys, and having little-to-no real-world practical application.

Check out IDPA, etc. Get yourself a Glock and shoot GSSF.

 

[loadedround]

50 Yard Bullseye shooting

My friend, I was a bullseye shooter for many years and the best advice I can give you outside of practice is make sure your pistol will shoot under 11/2" at 50 yds(Bull is this size). If the accuracy is not there you are just handicapping yourself. That was the promise of the Colt Gold Cup many years ago...50 yard accuracy out of the box.

 

[brickeyee]

"You'll probably find Bullseye to be a really boring shooting sport, participated in primarily by overweight old guys, and having little-to-no real-world practical application."

Of course while you are hammering away at a 50 yard target and producing no effect, we will have dispatched you with one (or maybe two) well placed shots.

 

[cavman]

Sandbags?

All my shooting to date has been freehand, that is no stationary and supported shooting. Will placing the barrel on a sandbag be adequate to provide the removal of the inherent human error to determine a gun's accuracy at 25/50yards?

Yoda, is there more to the trigger than the pressure? There seems that there is little difference between the stock trigger pressure (according to one report) and the Volquartsen being sold as I noted earlier. I checked the Clark wesite http://www.clarkcustomguns.com/rug22pcn.htm#standard
and although they state what they do, I coudn't find what actual improvements were made. Clearly it was assumed that the consumer knew what they were receiving. I didn't see much of a "sell job" stating what was being gained in real simple English terms. Good for those that know what they want but not the best for those that don't understand what is being offered and why it is better.

Finally, I don't mean to raise any hackles here but why is $500 worth of work required for a 1911 to shoot these nice tight groups? Apologize for the ignorance in advance.

thanks
cavman

 

[Graystar]

Contradictory to what?

Contradictory to what a lay person might expect in a sport of precision shooting. Also contradictory to how you sight a red-dot or scope. With those you focus sharply on the target.

It only takes a fraction to move the focus from teh BG to the front site long enough to get a site picture.

But this isn’t a BG we’re talking about. We’re talking about a 3.36 inch 10 ring that is half a football field away.

Bullseye is consistency and position. Do the same thing every time

Exactly!

 

[Rockstar]

Graystar! Be very careful. You're making too much sense! You NEVER want to introduce logic and cogency into a thread like this!

 

[cavman]

Well,
The original thread starter thrives on logic and cogence...

appreciate all help in these matters Graystar and others.

cavman

 

[wally]

Not to pick nits, but with a scope you focus on the reticle or magnified target image, if its adjusted correctly for parallax at the range in question both are in the same plane of focus and it won't matter. I was taught to focus on the reticle, when my eyes were young and good I didn't have much use for scopes, now I can't really say if I'm focusing on the reticle or target image, Clearly I do better with AO scopes but these are pretty slow to set up if you don't always shoot at the same distance. On non adjustable scopes I think where you should focus might depend on if the target image plane is in front of or behind the reticle image. Got a 50-50 chance, but if the target plane is behind the reticle, focus should be on the reticle in analogy with focus on the front with irons, whereas if the target image plane is in front of the reticle then focus should be on the target image. Could vary with scope design if the target image is forced by design to always be behind or in front of the reticle at all ranges with a non parallax adjustable scope.

Took me a while to get used to red dots as you need to look thru the dot and focus on the target, when I revert to thinking the dot is a front sight I start missing badly.

I'm not a bullseye shooter, prefering speed shooting, things like steel plates, bowling pins, or other reactive targets so I don't have to look for tiny little holes to see if I'm hitting I'm surprised to find red dots work well for bullseye as off a rest I'll generally shoot tighter groups with iron sights and my reading glasses than with a red dot and natural vision -- I've always thought it was because the dots generally are too large for really precise alignment. Guess it must be a Zen thing with consistency

--wally.