NRA 50 yard bullseye?

[happy old sailor]

cavman, much good advice above. as far as a Ruger .22 is concerned - Jim Clark. of Clark Guns fame won the national .22 championship with a box stock Ruger. that was in the late 50s or early 60s, i forget the year but not the deed.

a friend of mine bought one because of that feat and his pocket book. i did not like it because of the Luger type handle on it. by this time i had become accustomed to the excellent 1911 grip and all others seemed funky. i have heard that Jim Clark is deceased, but his shop lives on and the quality of their work is legendary. their business is/was in a little satelite town of Shrevesport, Louisiana, which is in the NW corner of the state. being originaly from La., i visited the shop twice when in the area for other reasons.
i have never felt more welcome at any business, even though i told them uo front that i was not there to buy.

the work they do to a Ruger pistol is all that can be done to make it a precision instrument. you may have to spend a few bucks on your Ruger, but that will be far cheaper than going for another target model. and, a Clark gun holds it's value better than a stock gun.

acquiring the right grip, stance, etc, is the easy part. the ability to follow simple instructions is the key to that. then there is the mental challenge and i think the mental work is the most difficult. you must conquer yourself inside your head. this is not easy.

prior to the shot or string of 5 shots, decide what you are going to do and do it. then analyze what you did. if it is good keep that in mind. if not good, forget it as you dont want to repeat it. is that what they call positive thinking. i shoot for the challenge of mental discipline of self. if you find this is not for you, go to one of the action shooting sports. i have not tried them, only watching TV, but they look like a lot of fun. and, one heck of a challenge in their own right

keep a log of your shooting experiences and scores. scores seem to advance in stages, or, plateaus. nothing is going on there until one day, your averages are higher. then, same thing again. dont try to outshoot your average. if you could, you would have higher averages. make every shooting day, practice or tournamen a serious practicer day. every shot is a serious one.

one handed bullseye shooting is really very simple. mental discipline is a whole nuther story.

 

[cavman]

Good ideas.

I was reading around and I have seen a lot of comments about triggers being the biggy for the MarkIII. Volquartsen has the trigger,sear,hammer, and what appears to be the bolt extractor as a kit for $100. Perhaps that is the route I will go.

Although I see that Clark does their trigger job also for a hundred dollars of trigger sear and hammer bushing. (Although they don't explictly state the MarkIII, only the Marks I and II)

Mental also seems to be the real kicker.

There is one THRer, JPGov that was talking about the RockArms Hardball as the way to go for the .45 but I am not there yet before really checking out my p345!!

great suggestions, thanks

cavman

 

[Graystar]

I've always thought it was because the dots generally are too large for really precise alignment.

Nooooo, that’s what makes it great! I have a 4-Dot UltraDot red-dot sight, which has an adjustable dot size. What you do is to set the dot size so that it nearly covers the black of the target. What you’re looking for is a thin black ring around the dot. That makes any misalignment much easier to see.

There is one THRer, JPGov that was talking about the RockArms Hardball as the way to go for the .45

Do you mean Rock River Arms? I have one of their hardball guns. They're great.

 

[cavman]

UltraDot 4 vs. Normal for 25yards?

Graystar,

I have been doing a lot of internet surfing trying to find opinions about the 4 dot Ultradot and have been coming up with varying opinions.

I have just found today a Bullseye range only 1 mile from my house that meets twice a month ~30-40 competitors (and is free to boot! up to $20year to cover your paper targets) that holds NRA Bullseye competitions. It is a 25 yarder range. Pretty psyched about the convenience factor!

I will be most likely be doing 95% of my shooting now at 25yards. In your opinion is the 1" UltraDot normal, one dot the ticket for me? Or should I spring for a couple extra dots for a couple extra $ ?

thanks,
cavman

 

[Canuck-IL]

Almost everybody experiments with the various 2,4,6,8 dot types and the 1 inch vs 30mm tubes...for BE, they mostly seem to end up back at the 1 inch, fixed dot size...lighter and more than adequate for BE use.
/B

 

[YodaVader]

"Yoda, is there more to the trigger than the pressure? There seems that there is little difference between the stock trigger pressure (according to one report) and the Volquartsen being sold as I noted earlier. I checked the Clark wesite http://www.clarkcustomguns.com/rug22pcn.htm#standard
and although they state what they do, I coudn't find what actual improvements were made."

I wish you could shoot my MKII that has been worked on by Clark. There is more to trigger quality than simply weight reduction. Elimination of take up , creep , and over travel, as well as weight reduction resulting in an extremely crisp pull vastly superior to the stock set up. Really noticeable when trying to shoot precisely one handed. Between my Clark MKII and my stock MKII (both pictured earlier in the thread) there is no compairison in trigger pull quality. In fact after the Clark work I rate their MKII better than my Smith 41 which was a $675 gun when new.

With that said , many of those over at rimfirecentral.com give the impression that adding the Volquartsen sear and a VQ or fully adjustable Marvel trigger makes a big difference. I have not tried the set up by probably will with my second MKII.

 

[Khornet]

Also see

Pilkington Competition. These are airgun people, but the site has lots of good articles on the discipline of Bullseye shooting.

www.pilkguns.com

They also have a used gun section which almost always includes some good used target firearms.

 

[Graystar]

I will be most likely be doing 95% of my shooting now at 25yards. In your opinion is the 1" UltraDot normal, one dot the ticket for me? Or should I spring for a couple extra dots for a couple extra $ ?

I like having choices, so I would go for the 4-Dot. I had a regular UltraDot and am glad I had moved up the 4-Dot.

By far the best sight mounts for the Mark II is the SoLow.

http://www.solow.com/

That said, I kinda got on a traditionalist kick and am using iron sights on all my guns now. It’s more challenging. Also, it is impossible to work on your grip consistency with a red-dot because only iron sights can tell you when you’ve gripped incorrectly.

Since you’re a beginner and have a place to shoot, I’d recommend you use the gun stock for now. You’ll get tons of advice from the shooters you’re gonna meet. Just take it all in and research before doing anything. I can’t stress enough that you should know your gun intimately before making any changes. Otherwise you can’t tell if the changes are good or bad.

 

[cavman]

Thanks all,

In all the excitement, it seems that I have been getting all worked up to make sure that I have all the equipment that I will need to be able to do a decent job.

It seems that I will take the equipment that I have and was given: pistol and brain, and see what happens tonight.

I have the 25yard target up right now here at work, and I don't think that I will be needing the additional challenge of iron sights, let's just say that right now Graystar, versus the dot sight!! (Wicked small, man) But iron sights/fiber optic front sight is what I have now so I will go with that and see what happens.

After a few rounds of Bullseye I will see about the Volquartsen/Clark trigger work and/or dot sight, perhaps.

Range report tomorrow. looking at that target now is foreboding, to be sure.
I will probably just shoot the Hunter.22. I don't know if I can hit with the .45.

thanks and have a great day
cavman

 

[bdutton]

For what it's worth....

The ultra dot is my favorite. It's nice to be able to adjust the size but I settled on the smallest dot I could. Even then, it seems too big. Now I wish I had the UD Match dot with the 2moa dot.

Also, start shooting iron sights. The trouble with starting with a dot is the perceived wobble is mode noticable with a dot than iron sights. The dot is bright red and looks like it shakes all over the place. That can lead to a drop in confidence and rushed shots. With iron sights, the focus is on trigger pull and the sight alignment. The wobble is hardly noticable with the black sights.

Once you gain a certain measure of success with the iron sights you can move up to the dot.

Also, go to the bullseye range you mentioned and try other shooter's guns. find one which you are most comfortable with and then go buy one.

 

[cavman]

Range Report

Oh the Humanity!!

Well I turned out not the be the Bullseye Savant. But had a great time and held my own (sort of).

The Facilities were clean, bright and in excellent condition. There was a Master of Ceremonies, Range Master, Start your Engines guy named Jerry Keifer who was a National Champion. I think cop Champion because he won in Mississippi and not Camp Perry. There were ~20 lanes.

At first is was like baptism by fire. There is a rhythm to it, tick tick tick, and it keeps going. So I found myself just trying to keep up and did a lot of monkeying of others. On three occasions someone stepped in and helped with the target contraption (It turned out to be Mr. Keifer who came from out of his control room and out into the range). Another to assist with I forget what, and a woman helping me to clean up my brass. ??? Thanks. Strangers helping strangers.

I figured I was only going to shoot my .22 considering it was really my first time shooting at 25yards, a good 2x-3x farther than what I have shot before and also the first time shooting with only one hand! Also as there seems to be a general concensus from all of the folks here that in all likelyhood the .22 will be more accurate that the "combat" Ruger p345 .45.

I shot about 9 targets slow, med, and rapid fire. I was on the low end of the people there but maybe middle of the low end, about 1/3 in the black overall I think. Unfortunately I never scored. I was too busy trying to load, retreive, clean up my brass and make sure that I was moving with the others to score, but I think that 1/3 black is about right. (Maybe 1/4)

There were a couple of ringers there also. There were two guys that I noticed, perhaps there were more but these two's lanes were close to mine and all I saw everytime were 9s and above. Everytime. wow. Slow, med or rapid fire. Only 45s too, it seemed.

This turned out not to be a competion in that scores are official, but rather "mock tournement", where all but rankings are by the book. Good practice for the real thing I guess.

Nice experience. I will definately go back.

cavman

 

[Steve C]

I will be most likely be doing 95% of my shooting now at 25yards. In your opinion is the 1" UltraDot normal, one dot the ticket for me? Or should I spring for a couple extra dots for a couple extra $ ?

I've been using a relatively inexpensive BSA red dot sight for the last 6 years on my Bullseye gun. Actually I'm on my second as the first had one of the interior lenses come loose. But I paid only $22 each from Midway on sale and it just plain works. The dot is small, only a 3-4 MOA so it only covers the 10 and perhaps the 9 ring when on target. I can call every shot I make as to where it will be in the target. When the Dots in the center when the gun goes off its Always a 10 and most always an X. In my leage I'm only a good average shooter.

While the red dots do help my old eyes with the sight focus problem on iron sights you will still get better results if you focus on the dot rather than the target. If you haven't already, read the Facts on Red Dot Sights at Bullseyepistol.com

 

[bdutton]

I shot about 9 targets slow, med, and rapid fire. I was on the low end of the people there but maybe middle of the low end, about 1/3 in the black overall I think. Unfortunately I never scored. I was too busy trying to load, retreive, clean up my brass and make sure that I was moving with the others to score, but I think that 1/3 black is about right. (Maybe 1/4)

Congrats on shooting your first bullseye match (even if it was not for score).

There is no known cure for the addiction. It's best to accept the inevitable and enjoy it!

 

[wally]

Originally Posted by wally
I've always thought it was because the dots generally are too large for really precise alignment.

Nooooo, that’s what makes it great! I have a 4-Dot UltraDot red-dot sight, which has an adjustable dot size. What you do is to set the dot size so that it nearly covers the black of the target. What you’re looking for is a thin black ring around the dot. That makes any misalignment much easier to see.

That would explain my results, when sighting in I'm using targets with a 1" grid and center shapes designed to help align a scope reticle. None of my Red Dots have adjustable dot sizes and the astigmatism that has developed in my right eye makes the dot not round

Maybe focusing on the dot works for bulleseye at long ranges but the instructions that came with my J-Point (aka Optima 2000) clearly said to look thru the dot and focus on the target. On the 10-15 yrds of the plate rack you won't do well focusing on the dot with any of the ones I have -- this I've proven by trial and error .

--wally.

 

[Logan5]

*ETA* nevermind, it's repetitive. Glad you're enjoying the sport.

 

[cavman]

So I called up Larry's in Maine. What a coincidence. Had to move to Virginia and join THR, buy a .22 and .45, and then call Larry's only to find that he is a mere 5 miles from where I used to live to buy an UltraDot from him...Life is funny sometimes.

Upon his suggestion because I will, at least in the near future, be shooting in 25 yard indoor ranges 95% of the time, I bought the 1" one dot version.

Should arrive next week.

 

[cavman]

Another question: Practice Distances

Would you suggest practicing at the distances that you will be competing at, in this case 25 yards?

Or master 7,10,15 yards ect. nailing 9,10 and Bulls all day long, and then working up to 25 yards?

thanks
cavman

 

[Justin]

Unless you're having trouble keeping them on the paper, practice at the distance the matches will be shot at. It will get you used to shooting that distance, and you won't have to keep track of how your sights are adjusted.

 

[Graystar]

Listen to the mod. And not only should you practice at match distance, but you must use match targets as well. I created my own targets on the computer, printed them out once, and make copies at the local Staples.

It is important to practice with the proper target because the black area is just a blur and you want that blur to be the same size and in the same position over your sights every time you shoot. That’s how you build consistency.

My targets are in Microsoft Publisher format, if anyone would like a copy of the file.

 

[bdutton]

You want a challenge? Shoot 50 foot targets at 25 yards for practice.

When it comes time for a match, those 25 yard targets will look HUGE!

I sent you an email caveman.

 

[cavman]

Holy thread resurrection!

Was searching for some RRA Hard ball info and this came up.

Pretty cool reading about old shoots. (1/4 to 1/3 in the Black as my earlier comments say) nice to see that improvements have been made, considering that I had two personal bests in the last two days: tonight at our local 50ft gallery league with a 285/300; and a 876/900 at the Fairfax, VA 2700 shoot on Sunday.

I decided to give it a go and get the Hardball from RRA and see if I can figure that beast out. Lord knows my first trip to Perry this year, and virtually my first time firing a Service .45, were incredibly humbling ( I blame the wind but what the heck!

But I much appreciate all the good advice from the THR's over these lo' many months.

cavman

 

[5Wire]

the NRA 50 yd slow fire target at Pistoleer is printed on 21" x 24" stock and the black is 7-3/16 in diameter. The same angle at 7 yards is 1 inch, for all practical purposes. Shoot the ranges available to you, IMO.

 

[Powderman]

Actually, the targets used for Bullseye are the B-6 and the B-8 targets.

I usually buy the repair centers direct from National Target Company, in packs of one hundred each.

Cavman, you were at Perry this year? So was I--and between dodging brass (guy next to me shooting Federal GM Match ball out of his wad gun) and getting off on completely the wrong foot (losing all of my .22 scores for the preliminary match because of a disqualification, which started when my Marvel conversion gun went full auto) I sucked worse than a Hoover vacuum cleaner.

Well, I still had a blast. Even came away with a good mental picture of what I should do to shoot a LOT better.

The State Championship is coming up in September for us--I'm prepared!

I'm going with:

1. A new .22. The Marvel has a proper trigger now, but it's the backup--the primary is a Hammerli 280.
2. For the first time, a centerfire gun--a SW 52-1 with a 1" Ultradot that just loves Hornady HBWC and HP38 powder,
3. My Masaki wadcutter gun, and also:
4. My ball gun, also built by Ed Masaki.

Hopefully, I will redeem myself, and FINALLY break into the Master class!

 

[cavman]

Yes I was at Perry. I figured to train for next year, I am going to the Caribbean and train during the Hurricane season! The earthen berms that surround my range don't exactly re-create windy Perry.

While at Perry I did make introductions with the venerable Ed Masaki, it was a great experience, overall. The cannon, raising of the Colors, and the National Anthem....now that is the way to start a Match!!

I also shot with "Team Maryland". It was quite a spectacle with all the States and the Flags. That is where I got hooked on the Service .45. I was borrowing one of my friend's spares. So, I figure I will get a RRA Harball and see if I can make that work.

cavman

 

[Sylvan-Forge]

Rock on cavman!

Hey, I noticed early on in the thread you mentioned something about sights that project on target. Just to clarify if you don't know, it just means no laser type projectors like the kind you might attach to the bottom rail of a combat arm.

I'm just getting into BE shooting myself and I'm in the process of acquiring equipment and working skills with what I do have.

One thing that helps me is focusing on the front sight as the shot goes off, trying not to close my eyes, watching it recoil up and then back down again, all the while following through with the trigger .. keeping it to the rear until after the pistol has come back down from recoil.


Best to ya!