OC Spray. Sabre vs Mace vs POM.

[The Night Rider]

The only pepper spray I've ever been sprayed with was Saber Red gel and the gel did take about a minute to take effect.

The only time I ever sprayed pepper spray was at a raccoon and I missed.

I've spoken to several trainers who say that you need to practice with the spray and they even sell cans of inert spray that you can use to practice your aim.


This is what I carry in the mountains but it's obviously not concealable.

Based on my very minimal experience I prefer fog over Gel. I carry a can of UDAP Jogger Fogger, it's about 3 inches by 1.25 inches in diameter.


The only time I've ever had any cause to even get the pepper spray out was at work and I found the deterrent value of the pepper spray to be greater than the deterrent value of having a gun on my hip. Crackheads don't think you'll really shoot them but they absolutely believe that you'll spray them.

And just to be clear every time I ever pulled out pepper spray at work was in direct response to a threat from someone I was trying to remove from property. I wasn't just whipping it out to be an ass.

 

[The Night Rider]

During our CBR training in basic we were in a room with gas, then had to remove our masks.

Nasty stuff, with your eyes, nose, and mouth all secreting liquids while your eyes burned and you choked and coughed.

Then they gas attacked us on the way back to the barracks.

Years later I was fooling around and put a gas mask on, then whipped it off because it still had a faint gas smell inside, which I clearly remembered.

When I was in they called it NBC training and it's not same as pepper spray. CS gas (I've been told they actually use Banana Oil) dissipates in the air, OC spray does not.

 

[The Night Rider]

'm at the point where, while I know how effective OC can be, I prefer not to keep it in my personal defensive toolbox.

Can you explain your reasoning on this?

 

[Old Dog]

Can you explain your reasoning on this?

Yep. I'm highly allergic to OC and it affects me much more than most people. Also, in my experience, every single time I've sprayed another human being with the stuff (and I've used OC on numerous occasions), I've ended up going hands-on anyway and ended up fighting (or attempting to restrain) sometimes while choking and near blind. I just plain just don't like the product and while I've seen its effectiveness demonstrated time and time again, now that I don't have to carry it, I usually don't. I'll take my chances with my fighting skills (degraded as they are at this age) if I'm not in a lethal force situation. I can only envision the rare situation where I'd be able to deploy OC anyway.

 

[lemaymiami]

What Old Dog mentioned - is right in line with my experiences (not many...) on the street.. An angry non-compliant offender is sprayed - then you still have to fight them to the ground - then wrestle them into 'cuffs... The result? Everyone involved gets to know more about spray than they ever wanted to... Used by an ordinary citizen to facilitate retreat and withdrawal - very useful... but once again the situation you're in defines your tactics (hopefully).

In 1970 I was in the service in Washington D.C. and with every evening off I was able to take a part-time job as a security guard (the beginning of my lifelong fascination with "street life" (and my education in that world.... ). It was the height of the Vietnam protests era and I was assigned one weekend to work at a local hospital's ER during the "MayDay" mobilization -really big demonstrations everywhere in the city as well as the usual street confrontations between the anti-war "troops" and cities outstanding police department (this was long before what pitiful forces we see today in our big cities...). At any rate there was the smell of CS gas everywhere that day and my job was to actually hose down any injured demonstrators before they were allowed into the ER... That "gas" was actually a very fine powder and if the walking wounded weren't hosed down they brought it into the treatment areas - not very good for the nurses and doctors at all... A year later I was in Vietnam and consider myself fortunate that I wasn't a combat type at all...

Like others have mentioned the various "non-lethal" defenses all have a drawback or two... If you choose to carry, learn as much about them as you can - and it's even worth a bit of professional training if possible so that when the time comes it's the "other guy" who is on the receiving end and you're able to break away and withdraw in good order...

 

[hso]

non-compliant offender is sprayed

I'll remind everyone that civilian and LE use are fundamentally opposed. Civilian use is to escape.

 

[epags]

During our CBR training in basic we were in a room with gas, then had to remove our masks.

Nasty stuff, with your eyes, nose, and mouth all secreting liquids while your eyes burned and you choked and coughed.

Then they gas attacked us on the way back to the barracks.

Years later I was fooling around and put a gas mask on, then whipped it off because it still had a faint gas smell inside, which I clearly remembered.

I remember the same training....in my case, after the training session, I went back to the office without changing my clothes. Everyone ordered me out and told me to go shower and change clothes.

 

[epags]

The problem with that canister, and the reason for this discussion, is that the trigger on that device has no protection from accidental discharge, other than the short twist of the trigger itself, which often inadvertently gets moved to the fire position while in one's pocket. Yes, that particular model is designed to be constantly carried in the hand at all times, but most of us can't do that throughout our entire day.

But I agree, Sabre makes an effective product.

At the suggestion of my CCW trainer, I bought the Sabre Gel large canister primarily for inciidents while in the automobile. And it is OK to carry on my person when I am out in the woods hiking or hunting but not concealable populated areas.

I had and still have the smaller tube canisters for carrying when out and about. One thing I did do was to carefully move the plunger style trigger to the fire position and then put a piece of black electrican's tape under where the trigger rests when in the 'safe to carry' position. It adds just enough resistance NOT to move easily when in your pocket.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

When I was in they called it NBC training and it's not same as pepper spray. CS gas (I've been told they actually use Banana Oil) dissipates in the air, OC spray does not.

It depends. The Army uses CS gas. You do the whole gas chamber thing. (Mask off, inhale, recite your name, rang, and serial number, etc.) The Air Force uses banana oil. You sit in a classroom, have your mask fitted, and they wave a cloth soaked in banana oil around the inlets.

 

[The Night Rider]

At the suggestion of my CCW trainer, I bought the Sabre Gel large canister primarily for inciidents while in the automobile. And it is OK to carry on my person when I am out in the woods hiking or hunting but not concealable populated areas.

I would highly recommend that you do not use gel spray or people spray on a bear.

Most sprays that are designed for human beings have a short reach by the time you can spray a bear with one of those it will keep on coming and it will attack you as a source of its pain.



Notice how far away that bear was when he sprayed it

 

[12Bravo20]

I will ad a little to what @Old Dog and @lemaymiami said. The officer that has to transport anyone that has been sprayed with OC will not be too happy with whoever used the OC.

I know one local officer that still gets on me for using pepper spray to break up a bar fight. One of the guys was high on drugs and drunk so I used more spray on him. And the spray got all over the back seat of the police car.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

Notice how far away that bear was when he sprayed it

Yeah They totally used their bear spray incorrectly in that scenario. Although...they did a good job deterring that small sapling tree from attacking them. Bear spray-any kind of OC spray, really, is inherently a close quarters tool.

 

[The Night Rider]

Yeah They totally used their bear spray incorrectly in that scenario. Although...they did a good job deterring that small sapling tree from attacking them. Bear spray-any kind of OC spray, really, is inherently a close quarters tool.

Most of the expert types that I listen to state that you should spray the bear as far away from you as you reasonably can.

The rationale is that if you spray a bear that's say, 10 ft from you and coming in he's going to keep right on coming due to momentum alone.

 

[hso]

D.B.

Do you see a problem with the flip top safety sprays as oppose to the rotating head type you don't like?