Off duty Police told they can't carry at University
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Reyn
39-17-1309
http://www.michie.com/tennessee/lpext.dll?f=templates&fn=main-h.htm&cp=tncode
That is the current law.
39-17-1309
http://www.michie.com/tennessee/lpext.dll?f=templates&fn=main-h.htm&cp=tncode
That is the current law.
Intune
Member
I, for one, don't begrudge an LEO being able to get out of a minor traffic infraction. Heck, I've been cut some serious slack just by being calm & courteous, 1200cc's can get one in trouble quick. 
A serious infraction is probably a whole different matter. I can only answer with, would it be worth my career to help this law-breaking bozo 'cause he's an LEO?
The only "badge-flashing" incident that I can personally relate was an off-duty rookie who got his posterior in a sling big time by doing so. Well, at least that's what the Major from the Nashville PD passed along when he called & asked if an apology and something or other in his personal file would be sufficient amends or would I like to take this matter further. He almost seemed disappointed when I told him that I would leave it in his capable hands.
They SHOULD be able to carry. Why? Because it makes sense to have lawfully armed people in the classroom. With that said, the ugly thread will be the one when MTSU allows LEO's but not CCW holders. THAT hasn't happened... Yet...
Edited to add: Please stop with the "I'm more qualified with x hours of training..." that mindset only helps the anti's. Plus it makes me want to whip out (''scuse me while I whip this out!" ) words/acronyms like - Armorer, Ma Deuce, 105mm, Claymore, LAW, HEAT, IPDA, HEP, SABOT, Willy Pete, coax or FUBAR!
A serious infraction is probably a whole different matter. I can only answer with, would it be worth my career to help this law-breaking bozo 'cause he's an LEO?
The only "badge-flashing" incident that I can personally relate was an off-duty rookie who got his posterior in a sling big time by doing so. Well, at least that's what the Major from the Nashville PD passed along when he called & asked if an apology and something or other in his personal file would be sufficient amends or would I like to take this matter further. He almost seemed disappointed when I told him that I would leave it in his capable hands.
They SHOULD be able to carry. Why? Because it makes sense to have lawfully armed people in the classroom. With that said, the ugly thread will be the one when MTSU allows LEO's but not CCW holders. THAT hasn't happened... Yet...
Edited to add: Please stop with the "I'm more qualified with x hours of training..." that mindset only helps the anti's. Plus it makes me want to whip out (''scuse me while I whip this out!"
) words/acronyms like - Armorer, Ma Deuce, 105mm, Claymore, LAW, HEAT, IPDA, HEP, SABOT, Willy Pete, coax or FUBAR!
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Treo
member
I dated a cop about 20 years ago, and I remember she came home absolutely livid one day because a St. Petersburg cop had given her a parking ticket. Her argument was that he knew she was a cop and cops don't give cops tickets. She would have been perfectly OK W/ me getting that ticket but not her because after all she was a cop.
I left her to join the Army but before I did I was told that her cop friends didn't think she should be dating a long hair like me. I was also told that I could pretty much count on being pulled over any time I drove through Pasco County. I'd say that was probably the start of my cop bashing career. funny thing though, as hard as she tried to be a good cop they ended up kicking her off the Sheriff's Dept. by the time I got back from Germany, something to do W/ her hanging out in a know dope bar.Never saw her again after I left for Ft. Lewis.
I left her to join the Army but before I did I was told that her cop friends didn't think she should be dating a long hair like me. I was also told that I could pretty much count on being pulled over any time I drove through Pasco County. I'd say that was probably the start of my cop bashing career. funny thing though, as hard as she tried to be a good cop they ended up kicking her off the Sheriff's Dept. by the time I got back from Germany, something to do W/ her hanging out in a know dope bar.Never saw her again after I left for Ft. Lewis.
cassandrasdaddy
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and all this time we thought it was over a bag of stash, at least now we know.
Treo
member
Oh God no. I went to rehab when I was 17 and haven't touched a drop since.
No it was definitely watching that abuse of power that got me started.
divemedic
Member
It appears as though it is illegal for off duty cops to carry in a college- it appears to be a felony
39-17-1309
(b) (1) It is an offense for any person to possess or carry, whether openly or concealed, with the intent to go armed, any firearm, explosive, explosive weapon, bowie knife, hawk bill knife, ice pick, dagger, slingshot, leaded cane, switchblade knife, blackjack, knuckles or any other weapon of like kind, not used solely for instructional or school-sanctioned ceremonial purposes, in any public or private school building or bus, on any public or private school campus, grounds, recreation area, athletic field or any other property owned, used or operated by any board of education, school, college or university board of trustees, regents or directors for the administration of any public or private educational institution.
(2) A violation of this subsection (b) is a Class E felony.
**** snip irrelevant parts ******
(e) The provisions of subsections (b) and (c) do not apply to the following persons:
(1) Persons employed in the army, air force, navy, coast guard or marine service of the United States or any member of the Tennessee national guard when in discharge of their official duties and acting under orders requiring them to carry arms or weapons;
(2) Civil officers of the United States in the discharge of their official duties;
(3) Officers and soldiers of the militia and the national guard when called into actual service;
(4) Officers of the state, or of any county, city or town, charged with the enforcement of the laws of the state, when in the discharge of their official duties;
So, the exception for cops only applies to cops who are actually performing their official duties. This rule appears to be in accordance with the law.
39-17-1309
(b) (1) It is an offense for any person to possess or carry, whether openly or concealed, with the intent to go armed, any firearm, explosive, explosive weapon, bowie knife, hawk bill knife, ice pick, dagger, slingshot, leaded cane, switchblade knife, blackjack, knuckles or any other weapon of like kind, not used solely for instructional or school-sanctioned ceremonial purposes, in any public or private school building or bus, on any public or private school campus, grounds, recreation area, athletic field or any other property owned, used or operated by any board of education, school, college or university board of trustees, regents or directors for the administration of any public or private educational institution.
(2) A violation of this subsection (b) is a Class E felony.
**** snip irrelevant parts ******
(e) The provisions of subsections (b) and (c) do not apply to the following persons:
(1) Persons employed in the army, air force, navy, coast guard or marine service of the United States or any member of the Tennessee national guard when in discharge of their official duties and acting under orders requiring them to carry arms or weapons;
(2) Civil officers of the United States in the discharge of their official duties;
(3) Officers and soldiers of the militia and the national guard when called into actual service;
(4) Officers of the state, or of any county, city or town, charged with the enforcement of the laws of the state, when in the discharge of their official duties;
So, the exception for cops only applies to cops who are actually performing their official duties. This rule appears to be in accordance with the law.
medic, the rule is not in accordance with the law, the rule is simply repeating the law and giving LEOs who ought to know better one last warning to follow the law.
The almost funny part is, after 300 posts, after repeating this over and over, after having the attorney general's opinion posted, people will still question and call this cop-bashing. I wonder if summoning the spirits of dead legislators will be enough to get people to realize that in TN off-duty cops are not the same as on-duty cops, and cops are NOT on-duty 24/7.
The almost funny part is, after 300 posts, after repeating this over and over, after having the attorney general's opinion posted, people will still question and call this cop-bashing. I wonder if summoning the spirits of dead legislators will be enough to get people to realize that in TN off-duty cops are not the same as on-duty cops, and cops are NOT on-duty 24/7.
Intune
Member
It gets even better, or worse. 
39-17-1311. Carrying weapons on public parks, playgrounds, civic centers and other public recreational buildings and grounds. —
(a) It is an offense for any person to possess or carry, whether openly or concealed, with the intent to go armed, any weapon prohibited by § 39-17-1302(a), not used solely for instructional, display or sanctioned ceremonial purposes, in or on the grounds of any public park, playground, civic center or other building facility, area or property owned, used or operated by any municipal, county or state government, or instrumentality thereof, for recreational purposes.
(2) As used in this subsection (c), “prominent locations about public recreational property” includes, but is not limited to, all entrances to the property, any building or structure located on the property, such as restrooms, picnic areas, sports facilities, welcome centers, gift shops, playgrounds, swimming pools, restaurants and parking lots.
39-17-1311. Carrying weapons on public parks, playgrounds, civic centers and other public recreational buildings and grounds. —
(a) It is an offense for any person to possess or carry, whether openly or concealed, with the intent to go armed, any weapon prohibited by § 39-17-1302(a), not used solely for instructional, display or sanctioned ceremonial purposes, in or on the grounds of any public park, playground, civic center or other building facility, area or property owned, used or operated by any municipal, county or state government, or instrumentality thereof, for recreational purposes.
(2) As used in this subsection (c), “prominent locations about public recreational property” includes, but is not limited to, all entrances to the property, any building or structure located on the property, such as restrooms, picnic areas, sports facilities, welcome centers, gift shops, playgrounds, swimming pools, restaurants and parking lots.
Intune
Member
Oh, I knew us CCW's couldn't (jimmy naife) gag but I had no idea that off duty popo's couldn't!
e) The provisions of subsections (b) and (c) do not apply to the following persons:
(4) Officers of the state, or of any county, city or town, charged with the enforcement of the laws of the state, when in the discharge of their official duties.
e) The provisions of subsections (b) and (c) do not apply to the following persons:
(4) Officers of the state, or of any county, city or town, charged with the enforcement of the laws of the state, when in the discharge of their official duties.
razorback2003
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SomeKid,
The new law 39-17-1350 supersedes the old law that required TN law enforcement to be on duty when on school property, if you read the law it specifically states that. So do you think that it is legal for police to carry at K-12 schools, but not colleges? TN law treats all schools, whether K-12 or colleges, the same in that it is generally illegal to carry on such grounds unless you meet certain exceptions. Police on duty and off duty generally meet this exception. So are out of state Louisiana state police escorting LSU's football coach in Knoxville's Neyland stadium breaking the law? The law state law seems very clear to me in addition to HR218....basically police in TN can generally carry anywhere that was previously prohibited when off duty, EXCEPT places that serve alcohol (debatable due to HR218), courtrooms during a judicial proceeding when off duty, and school grounds (K-12 and college) when the school is not informed. Note they do not need permission.
On a side note, many lawyers and others believe it is legal to carry in TN parks, civic centers, and playgrounds. If you read the statute in the entirity, you will notice that 39-17-1302(a) weapons are prohibited. Those prohibited weapons include machine guns, sawed off shotguns and rifles, brass knucks, supressors, and switchblades. Handguns are not included.
The AG's opinion was based on old law regarding off duty police and carrying in parks and schools now superseded by new statute. It is also important to note that an AG's opinion is just that, an opinion. Statute, followed by case law, has higher authority on the legal scale than AG opinion. AG's are often motivated by political aspirations when writing such opinions.
The new law 39-17-1350 supersedes the old law that required TN law enforcement to be on duty when on school property, if you read the law it specifically states that. So do you think that it is legal for police to carry at K-12 schools, but not colleges? TN law treats all schools, whether K-12 or colleges, the same in that it is generally illegal to carry on such grounds unless you meet certain exceptions. Police on duty and off duty generally meet this exception. So are out of state Louisiana state police escorting LSU's football coach in Knoxville's Neyland stadium breaking the law? The law state law seems very clear to me in addition to HR218....basically police in TN can generally carry anywhere that was previously prohibited when off duty, EXCEPT places that serve alcohol (debatable due to HR218), courtrooms during a judicial proceeding when off duty, and school grounds (K-12 and college) when the school is not informed. Note they do not need permission.
On a side note, many lawyers and others believe it is legal to carry in TN parks, civic centers, and playgrounds. If you read the statute in the entirity, you will notice that 39-17-1302(a) weapons are prohibited. Those prohibited weapons include machine guns, sawed off shotguns and rifles, brass knucks, supressors, and switchblades. Handguns are not included.
The AG's opinion was based on old law regarding off duty police and carrying in parks and schools now superseded by new statute. It is also important to note that an AG's opinion is just that, an opinion. Statute, followed by case law, has higher authority on the legal scale than AG opinion. AG's are often motivated by political aspirations when writing such opinions.
razorback,
Firstly, you need to read the entire thread. 218 gives out of state LEOs the ability to legally carry wherever people who hold that states HCP can carry. An out of state LEO carrying to the football stadium on a college campus commits a felony.
Regarding 39-17-1302(a) you are actually correct. It is debated as to whether or not carry is actually prohibited, that said, it has not yet been hashed out in court where the decision is ultimately made.
The AG OP is an OP, true, however he is the AG of the State. His OP holds some real weight. On top of that, had you read the thread you would know, the AG is appointed by the TN Supreme Court. Relevance? Simple, they generally don't contradict their appointed mouthpiece.
Firstly, you need to read the entire thread. 218 gives out of state LEOs the ability to legally carry wherever people who hold that states HCP can carry. An out of state LEO carrying to the football stadium on a college campus commits a felony.
Regarding 39-17-1302(a) you are actually correct. It is debated as to whether or not carry is actually prohibited, that said, it has not yet been hashed out in court where the decision is ultimately made.
The AG OP is an OP, true, however he is the AG of the State. His OP holds some real weight. On top of that, had you read the thread you would know, the AG is appointed by the TN Supreme Court. Relevance? Simple, they generally don't contradict their appointed mouthpiece.
razorback2003
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So you think that Alabama state troopers escorting (security detail) Auburn or Alabama's football coach in Neyland stadium is comitting a felony? At the bare minimum, they are in the performance of their duties, making it legal for an out of state LE officer. I don't think surrounding states' departments would send their own armed state troopers to escort coaches if it was illegal.
razor, is that ignorance or blatant trolling? Go read the laws, and you will plainly see how silly what you just posted is. AL troopers are civilians the moment they cross the line into TN, as are TN HWP when they cross it the other way.
As an aside, what state are you in, and have you even read the entirety of TN Code pertaining to guns once?
As an aside, what state are you in, and have you even read the entirety of TN Code pertaining to guns once?
win71
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You are absolutely right kid
I don't believe I have ever seen anyone more certain of anything. Now, I have an idea. Contact the local agency that has jurisdiction at that university stadium and swear out a citizens complaint. Follow that up with a citizens arrest of all those no good felony gun carrying out of state cops. Spend a day or two in court and watch justice served.
But first maybe you should check out your states policy and use of the common practice of deputizing allied agency officers to perform special duties within your state.
During Katrina, Louisiana had officers from almost half the states in the union. Do you suppose they were all committing felonies by carrying guns. Their police officer powers and authority came from the state they were in not the state they came from. It's generally an administrative procedure completed with a signature from a authorized politico.
Lots of times there is more than one law covering a situation. The law says you can't kill anyone too. Some kind of murder. Haven't seen many hangman prosecuted though.
I don't believe I have ever seen anyone more certain of anything. Now, I have an idea. Contact the local agency that has jurisdiction at that university stadium and swear out a citizens complaint. Follow that up with a citizens arrest of all those no good felony gun carrying out of state cops. Spend a day or two in court and watch justice served.
But first maybe you should check out your states policy and use of the common practice of deputizing allied agency officers to perform special duties within your state.
During Katrina, Louisiana had officers from almost half the states in the union. Do you suppose they were all committing felonies by carrying guns. Their police officer powers and authority came from the state they were in not the state they came from. It's generally an administrative procedure completed with a signature from a authorized politico.
Lots of times there is more than one law covering a situation. The law says you can't kill anyone too. Some kind of murder. Haven't seen many hangman prosecuted though.
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SCKimberFan
Member
Huh? Where did you pull that from?
If they are in an official capacity, they are not civilians, just because they cross some imaginary line. They are still on duty LEOs.
Intune
Member
Well, if they were deputized wouldn't it fall under-
How about the off-duty AL trooper who accidentally drops his gun in the toilet at the concert that night at the civic center after his "official" duties were completed that afternoon? No problem? (Other than a pissy pistol?)
Kinda makes one wonder how the old "us vs them" ever got started, eh? Looks like we came back to the OP in a roundabout way.
And are there any rules associated with crossing a state line in an "official capacity" or do they cross on a whim whenever they feel like it (after all, it's only TN) and can I look forward to seeing an AR state trooper gettin' his groove on at Tootsie's while busting the band for the pot? This, I gotta see.
How about the off-duty AL trooper who accidentally drops his gun in the toilet at the concert that night at the civic center after his "official" duties were completed that afternoon? No problem? (Other than a pissy pistol?)
Kinda makes one wonder how the old "us vs them" ever got started, eh?
Looks like we came back to the OP in a roundabout way. OK, those of you who think cops from all over the country retain all their police powers (including arrest, and no I don't mean the powers of a citizens arrest either) when they come to Tennessee find the appropriate laws.
This means you go hunt through the TCA to find it, I however have stated the facts and see no need to waste my time further to prove your ignorant grumbling false. Your turn to prove me wrong. (I know, cruel of me to make you trolls do the work. Either way, put up or be ignored.)
This means you go hunt through the TCA to find it, I however have stated the facts and see no need to waste my time further to prove your ignorant grumbling false. Your turn to prove me wrong. (I know, cruel of me to make you trolls do the work. Either way, put up or be ignored.)
SCKimberFan
Member
Not what I said. You are reading a lot more into what I posted.
Is every one who may disagree with you a troll?
cassandrasdaddy
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you gotta forgive me for not taking legal advice from some kid on the net. last good example of that kinda advice being taken as fact involved a young man turning down a plea with 2 years attached and getting 20 after his jailbird uncle advised him
Guns and more
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I live in Florida and I don't believe this is true. Did you mean Louisiana?
The Law enforcement Safety Act of 2004 is on the books and supersedes local and state firearms restrictions.Federal law says they can and trumps any state , county, city, or village law.This law even allows an off duty NJ or whatever state officer to carry in every state of the union.commonly known as HR218 , it was signed into law by Bush in July of 2004.
Intune
Member
I respectfully beg to differ-
Was there an amendment to this later? I couldn't find one. I've been wrong before, ask my first wife...
P.S. Remind me to never mess with win71. Talk about POWER!)
Kinda sounds like my CCW restrictions. Well a bit more than "kinda."
Was there an amendment to this later? I couldn't find one. I've been wrong before, ask my first wife...
P.S. Remind me to never mess with win71. Talk about POWER!
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