Probably 100 times.
Oklahoma Constitutional Carry Passes Senate 40-6
- Thread starter alsaqr
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I've only seen open carry in town a couple times but remember that at present anyone that open carries has to have a permit. Those that go through the process of obtaining a permit are interested in concealed carry. Once the law changes I suspect some will do open carry just for show.
[QUOTE="NO, they absolutely will not. It may be true that SOME states (none that I am aware of with the possible exception of OK) will allow a permit holder from another state more leeway than their own permit holders, but it is NOT TRUE in TX."[/QUOTE]
I think you are wrong about this. Of course one has to obey the laws of the state they are in but that generally refers to when and where for concealed carry. If Texas recognizes Arkansas, and they do, then how can a person produce a carry permit if that state has Constitutional carry? I think once a Arkansas resident produces proof that they live in Arkansas that will satisfy a LEO by the fact Texas honors that states carry law. Either Texas recognizes Arkansas right to carry or they do not...right now everything says they do.
Now it is possible that Arkansas, though being a Constitutional carry state simply issues some kind of permit upon request...I don't live there so I don't know.
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If1HitU
Member
Congrats Okie.
P5 Guy
Member
If it wasn't for Marion Hammer and the theme parks Florida would have open carry.
Poper
Member
Maybe, but it will likely be very few. When constitutional carry passed here in AZ almost nobody noticed.
About the only time you will see open carry is at a shooting range or someone cruising on his motorcycle. Funny thing: Last week on the way back for the range, I had a string of motorcycles pass me and I noticed 2 women with open carry handguns.
10mm Mike
Member
Arkansas is not "officially" constitutional carry in the same way that Arizona and others are, at least not as I understand it. I think it would be more accurate to say that we are constitutional carry by technicality, and it had to be resolved via a court case that clarified a change in wording in the law... It would be best if we could get Spats McGee to comment on it since he is an Arkansas lawyer and can speak on it with more authority. But, that aside, Arkansas still issues carry permits, and I'm fairly certain that the carry permits that Arkansas is still issuing is what Texas in honoring, not constitutional carry. Also, to the best of my knowledge, the cost and procedure of getting a carry permit has not changed since constitutional carry became a thing here.
adcoch1
Member
It hurts, being from Washington and wanting out, but the checkpoint idea is probably necessary.
I don't know what you think is not quite correct.
Every legislative session there are many bills that are filed that never go anywhere. The fact that it has been filed means very little.
It might go somewhere, but as I said before, " I think it will be quite a long time before we have another chance at it after everything that happened." By "another chance", I mean a real chance at getting it passed, not just seeing a bill filed.
I am not wrong about this.
When you carry in TX, you carry subject to TX laws, regardless of what permits you have. Period.
TX does not allow permitless carry except in limited circumstances. Regardless of what state you live in or what its laws say. Period.
That is true of most states, with the possible exception of OK.
Some Constitutional Carry states (such as AZ) offer permits for precisely the reason you describe--so that they can carry in states that have reciprocity with them but which require a permit. But the fact remains that in almost all cases, it's the law of the state you're in that applies, NOT the law of the state that issued the permit.
NO. TX honors that state's carry permit. That means that if you live in a state with a permit that TX honors, you can carry in TX, subject to TX laws, with that state's permit.
TX does not allow constitutional carry. Period.
I'm not trying to be unpleasant--if someone gets this wrong there could be some pretty negative consequences. Do not try to carry in TX without a permit. ESPECIALLY do not try to open carry in TX without a permit. It is a crime except in very limited circumstances.
Mike,
You might find this interesting reading about your state... https://www.usacarry.com/arkansas-permitless-carry/
You might find this interesting reading about your state... https://www.usacarry.com/arkansas-permitless-carry/
I may have to eat my words. Looks like HB357 has a fighting chance to actually come up for a vote.
Just got the following bulletin from the TSRA:
Dear TSRA Members, Family and Friends:
House HSPS Committee
Rep. Jonathan Stickland (R-Bedford) and Rep. Poncho Nevarez (D-Eagle Pass) tell us that HB357-to allow individuals who are legally eligible to possess a firearm to carry a handgun without a state-issued license, will be heard soon in Chairman Nevarez's committee, House Committee on Homeland Security and Public Safety. Urge your state Rep. to co-author HB 357. The co-author's list is a deciding factor in bringing a bill to the House floor for a vote. Check out this link for the list of co-authors. There are currently 83 Rs in the Texas House and 67 Ds. Is your state rep. signed on?
Yesterday in Homeland Security and Public Safety the committee heard testimony in support of HB 1177 by Rep. Dade Phelan (R-Beaumont) to protect citizens from being charged with a crime for carrying a handgun while evacuating an area subject to a mandatory order issued during a declared state or local disaster, or while returning home. (Note: SB 506 is a companion bill in the Senate).
Currently carrying a handgun without an LTC off your own property or property under your control, or your vehicle, boat or such, also yours or under your control, could be up to a Class A misdemeanor. Loss of your LTC to display during a crises is also listed in statute as prohibited but is without a penalty. Don't put law abiding Texans at risk for protecting their collections, their families, and themselves during such an emergency situation. Urge a favorable committee vote for HB 1177 and thank you, Rep. Phalen for filing the bill and Chairman Nevarez for the early hearing.
Contact for Homeland Security and Public Safety
Contact for Texas House of Representatives
House HSPS Committee
Rep. Jonathan Stickland (R-Bedford) and Rep. Poncho Nevarez (D-Eagle Pass) tell us that HB357-to allow individuals who are legally eligible to possess a firearm to carry a handgun without a state-issued license, will be heard soon in Chairman Nevarez's committee, House Committee on Homeland Security and Public Safety. Urge your state Rep. to co-author HB 357. The co-author's list is a deciding factor in bringing a bill to the House floor for a vote. Check out this link for the list of co-authors. There are currently 83 Rs in the Texas House and 67 Ds. Is your state rep. signed on?
Yesterday in Homeland Security and Public Safety the committee heard testimony in support of HB 1177 by Rep. Dade Phelan (R-Beaumont) to protect citizens from being charged with a crime for carrying a handgun while evacuating an area subject to a mandatory order issued during a declared state or local disaster, or while returning home. (Note: SB 506 is a companion bill in the Senate).
Currently carrying a handgun without an LTC off your own property or property under your control, or your vehicle, boat or such, also yours or under your control, could be up to a Class A misdemeanor. Loss of your LTC to display during a crises is also listed in statute as prohibited but is without a penalty. Don't put law abiding Texans at risk for protecting their collections, their families, and themselves during such an emergency situation. Urge a favorable committee vote for HB 1177 and thank you, Rep. Phalen for filing the bill and Chairman Nevarez for the early hearing.
Contact for Homeland Security and Public Safety
Contact for Texas House of Representatives
Sovblocgunfan
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I’d love for this to be put on the governors desk.
I would still want a permit because of some nice perks associated with it, but I truly hope it turns out.
I would still want a permit because of some nice perks associated with it, but I truly hope it turns out.
Shanghai McCoy
Member
Texas is just "Baja Oklahoma"...
JohnKSa said:
I understand what you say about having to obey the state laws of the state you are in...that is a given. What you are saying is probable true, after all you live there and know better than I. But, when a state like Texas simply states they have a reciprocity agreement with states like Oklahoma, Arizona, and other states that have constitutional carry and don't stipulate that applies to permit holders only, well...I can see where a lot of folks from those states, such as myself, might find themselves in trouble by just taking the agreement at face value without clarification. Doesn't really matter for me as I intend keep my permit up to date regardless.
This does bring up a interesting question. Virginia as well as a few other states offers a online Concealed carry permit. Take the course, pay the money and they send you a Virginia permit. I wonder how Texas would view a Oklahoma resident with a Oklahoma drivers license but with a Virginia carry permit?
Yes, it does. Because it they only offer reciprocity for PERMITS. It's not that they offer reciprocity to the carry laws, it is that they offer reciprocity for PERMITS.
You have an incorrect understanding of how reciprocity works. In almost all cases, it applies ONLY to PERMITS, not to other states' laws.
If you don't hold a permit, you don't get reciprocity. It is possible that OK is different, but in all the cases I am aware of, a state recognizes the carry PERMIT for states that it has reciprocity with. But the laws that govern carry are the state's own laws, not the laws of the states of the non-resident permit holders.
Some states only accept permits of people who are residents in the states that they hold the permit for. FL, I believe, is that way--if you are from TX (which does have reciprocity with FL) but hold a VA permit (VA also has reciprocity with FL) it has no weight in FL. You have to hold a permit from the state where you reside.
TX is not that way. They accept VA permits so if you have a VA permit, you can carry in TX (subject to TX carry laws) even if you don't live in VA. Again, because it is the PERMIT that is accepted. Where the person lives, and the laws of that state and/or the laws of the state issuing the permit mean NOTHING.
Reciprocity in all the cases I am aware of (with the possible exception of OK) means this: If State X has reciprocity with State Y, then State X will let persons with a permit from State Y carry in State X, subject to the laws of State X.
.308 Norma
Member
Thank you!
And that's all she wrote for Constitutional Carry in TX for this legislative session. An "activist" representing the group "Texas Gun Rights" attempted to visit state lawmakers' homes because the legislative process wasn't working to his group's satisfaction. The Constitutional Carry Bill wasn't moving through the process way they thought it should so he thought he would just drop by some legislators' homes and help things along.
That will be the end of the bill for this session and I wouldn't be surprised if this kind of nonsense dissuades legislators from introducing similar bills in future legislative sessions given the fact that both times this kind of legislation has come up, there have been similar shenanigans from a small minority of knuckleheads. The irony is that they are harassing legislators that actually support the bill--alienating their allies.
I wish these folks could figure out how to play nicely with others. The TX legislature is actually pretty gun friendly and we make progress with gun rights in almost every legislative session--working within the normal process. No need to carry rifles into local fast food places to make a statement, no need to barge into legislators offices armed, no need to go pay home visits to legislators you think aren't working hard enough for your cause. But somehow they just can't break the code.
Wanna carry in TX? Get a permit--that's how it is now and how it likely will be for the foreseeable future thanks to the actions of a few "activists" who are too stupid to realize that they are the ones working hardest to prevent their goals from being realized.
That will be the end of the bill for this session and I wouldn't be surprised if this kind of nonsense dissuades legislators from introducing similar bills in future legislative sessions given the fact that both times this kind of legislation has come up, there have been similar shenanigans from a small minority of knuckleheads. The irony is that they are harassing legislators that actually support the bill--alienating their allies.
I wish these folks could figure out how to play nicely with others. The TX legislature is actually pretty gun friendly and we make progress with gun rights in almost every legislative session--working within the normal process. No need to carry rifles into local fast food places to make a statement, no need to barge into legislators offices armed, no need to go pay home visits to legislators you think aren't working hard enough for your cause. But somehow they just can't break the code.
Wanna carry in TX? Get a permit--that's how it is now and how it likely will be for the foreseeable future thanks to the actions of a few "activists" who are too stupid to realize that they are the ones working hardest to prevent their goals from being realized.
And that's all she wrote for Constitutional Carry in TX for this legislative session. An "activist" representing the group "Texas Gun Rights" attempted to visit state lawmakers' homes because the legislative process wasn't working to his group's satisfaction. The Constitutional Carry Bill wasn't moving through the process way they thought it should so he thought he would just drop by some legislators' homes and help things along.
That will be the end of the bill for this session and I wouldn't be surprised if this kind of nonsense dissuades legislators from introducing similar bills in future legislative sessions given the fact that both times this kind of legislation has come up, there have been similar shenanigans from a small minority of knuckleheads. The irony is that they are harassing legislators that actually support the bill--alienating their allies.
I wish these folks could figure out how to play nicely with others. The TX legislature is actually pretty gun friendly and we make progress with gun rights in almost every legislative session--working within the normal process. No need to carry rifles into local fast food places to make a statement, no need to barge into legislators offices armed, no need to go pay home visits to legislators you think aren't working hard enough for your cause. But somehow they just can't break the code.
Wanna carry in TX? Get a permit--that's how it is now and how it likely will be for the foreseeable future thanks to the actions of a few "activists" who are too stupid to realize that they are the ones working hardest to prevent their goals from being realized.
This was just an excuse that Bonnen used. He had no intention of letting Constitutional Carry even come to the floor.
equin
Member
I agree. If the activist committed a crime, have him arrested. If not, explain he won't be given an opportunity to be heard by using aggressive, inappropriate lobbying tactics. Only those who properly and respectfully advocate will be heard and the bill will continue to be considered on behalf of Texans. But the fact the bill was scheduled for consideration on the same day the state budget was scheduled for consideration tells me the TX legislature was never serious about Constitutional carry. The activist's actions were merely a convenient excuse to get rid of the bill once and for all in my opinion.
Alte Schule
Member
You are absolutely correct. When Bonnen named a Democrat to chair the committee it was guaranteed to fail and he knew that. McNutt's stunt gave Bonnen a more convenient out than blaming the Democrats if it didn't pass.
I also lay partial blame at the feet of of Lt. Governor Patrick. He could of stepped in at any time to help move things along the right path but remained strangely silent.
CapnMac
Member
Sadly the RINO Speaker of the House just torpedoed our HB for Constitutional Carry.
He's put an anti on the homeland security committee as chair, as well as some other pro-Bloomberg types.
All this after riggingthe Speaker election with empty promises to win, 147-0.
Color me happy for Oklahoma nad sad for Texas.
CapnMac
Member
Thr flip side of that story is that the "activist" was a canvasser who had door-to-door campaigned for a number of Texas (r) Reps. Successfully, too, until he got to the Speaker's neighborhood, said Speaker having insisted on DPS protection. And it was that worthy who then claimed the canvasser was "harassing" home owners.
Sadly, since politics is involved, there are as many stories as their are persons telling them (plus a few). The spin fro me the Spaceman is significantly at odds with the one from TXGR (for whom the canvasser was working).
FROGO207
Member
Well in Maine we have Constitutional carry AND still maintain a permit system for those who wish to travel outside the state. There are many states that will honor our carry permit but still we have to follow their laws when in their state however.
Alte Schule
Member
I also read the alternate view and to me it's entirely plausible. When I first read the version released by Bonnen and his Dem friend Navarez it made me think that it was a in your face militant Maxine Waters type confrontation complete with bull horn and children cowering in fear.
Although McNutt made some asinine comments on Face Book that raised some eyebrows I don't think the incident played out as described by Speaker Bonnen. Doesn't matter though it just gave him the out he wanted wrapped in a big red ribbon, and added fire to the belief that there must be something wrong with these gun nuts pushing for constitutional carry.
As I pointed out, and as the record shows, the TX Legislature is actually very gun friendly and we make progress nearly every session. The idea that it's necessary to work outside the system to get pro-gun legislation through the TX legislature is, putting it extremely charitably, pure bovine excrement.
Don't take my word for it, go back and look at the history of pro-gun legislation passed in TX for the past 20 years. Look at how many of those bills were passed because of the kind of crap that McNutt and his ilk have pulled "supporting" open carry and how many passed by working within the system.
The idea that it's necessary to buttonhole legislators outside of their workplace to communicate with them effectively is absolute nonsense. If other communications methods don't appeal to a concerned citizen, legislators are available to listen to testimony of people supporting bills during the session---there are times specifically set up for that. If you want to speak your piece, you can head to Austin and have your chance. But going to legislators' houses to try to talk to them is ridiculous.
Would you go to your Doctor's house if you were unhappy with your treatment you got at the doctor's office? Would you go to your mechanic's house if your car didn't work after you got it back from the shop? Would you go visit your bank manager's house if you didn't like how you were treated at the local branch? Would you be happy if a customer showed up on your doorstep instead of at your workplace? I know that this is important to us all, but let's try to keep a modicum of sanity. Going to a person's house to deal with business issues is not acceptable behavior--even if you do believe you are doing God's work.
Even if we accept, for the sake of argument, that it really IS being used as an excuse to drop the legislation, it's a good excuse that plays well in the media, to other legislators, and to reasonable people everywhere. Why would we want to provide that kind of an excuse?
Anyway, as long as there are people willing to undertake this kind of "activism" in TX and others who support it, that's really good news for the opponents of Constitutional carry. The folks who don't want permitless carry in TX don't even have to lift a finger. There are people who will do the heavy lifting for them, and, based on this thread, apparently other people who will support them in the endeavor.
Very frustrating...
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