CarlS
Member
On FDR provoking the Pearl Harbor attack
My thanks for the vigorous discussion and my apologies for not being able to keep up the last few days. Business.
Someone asked for a source about FDR provoking the Pearl Harbor attack. A source that someone else "hates" (The Case for Pearl Harbor Revisionism, http://www.charlesmartelsociety.org...earlharbor.html) cited it in footnote 8:
Robert B. Stinnett, Day of Deceit: The Truth About FDR and Pearl Harbor (New York: The Free Press, 2000).
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...386216?v=glance
FWIW, "Although obviously troubled by his discovery of a systematic plan of deception on the part of the American government, Stinnett does not take deep issue with its outcome."
All I have time for at the moment...
"Editorial Reviews
Amazon.com
It was not long after the first Japanese bombs fell on the American naval ships at Pearl Harbor that conspiracy theories began to circulate, charging that Franklin Roosevelt and his chief military advisors knew of the impending attack well in advance. Robert Stinnett, who served in the U.S. Navy with distinction during World War II, examines recently declassified American documents and concludes that, far more than merely knowing of the Japanese plan to bomb Pearl Harbor, Roosevelt deliberately steered Japan into war with America.
Stinnett's argument draws on both circumstantial evidence--the fact, for example, that in September 1940 Roosevelt signed into law a measure providing for a two-ocean navy that would number 100 aircraft carriers--and, more importantly, on American governmental documents that offer apparently incontrovertible proof that Roosevelt knowingly sacrificed American lives in order to enter the war on the side of England. Although obviously troubled by his discovery of a systematic plan of deception on the part of the American government, Stinnett does not take deep issue with its outcome. Roosevelt, he writes, faced powerful opposition from isolationist forces, and, against them, the Pearl Harbor attack was "something that had to be endured in order to stop a greater evil--the Nazi invaders in Europe who had begun the Holocaust and were poised to invade England." Sure to excite discussion, Stinnett's book offers what may be the final word on the terrible matter of Pearl Harbor. --Gregory McNamee
From Publishers Weekly
Historians have long debated whether President Roosevelt had advance knowledge of Japan's December 7, 1941, attack on Pearl Harbor. Using documents pried loose through the Freedom of Information Act during 17 years of research, Stinnett provides overwhelming evidence that FDR and his top advisers knew that Japanese warships were heading toward Hawaii. The heart of his argument is even more inflammatory: Stinnett argues that FDR, who desired to sway public opinion in support of U.S. entry into... [read more]
Book Description
Pearl Harbor was not an accident, a mere failure of American intelligence, or a brilliant Japanese military coup. It was the result of a carefully orchestrated design, initiated at the highest levels of our government. According to a key memorandum eight steps were taken to make sure we would enter the war by this means. Pearl Harbor was the only way, leading officials felt, to galvanize the reluctant American public into action.
This great question of Pearl Harbor--what did we know and when did we know it?--has been argued for years. At first, a panel created by FDR concluded that we had no advance warning and should blame only the local commanders for lack of preparedness. More recently, historians such as John Toland and Edward Beach have concluded that some intelligence was intercepted. Finally, just months ago, the Senate voted to exonerate Hawaii commanders Admiral Kimmel and Lieutenant General Short, after the Pentagon officially declared that blame should be "broadly shared." But no investigator has ever been able to prove that fore-knowledge of the attack existed at the highest levels.
Until now. After decades of Freedom of Information Act requests, Robert B. Stinnett has gathered the long-hidden evidence that shatters every shibboleth of Pearl Harbor. It shows that not only was the attack expected, it was deliberately provoked through an eight-step program devised by the Navy. Whereas previous investigators have claimed that our government did not crack Japan's military codes before December 7, 1941, Stinnett offers cable after cable of decryptions. He proves that a Japanese spy on the island transmitted information--including a map of bombing targets--beginning on August 21, and that government intelligence knew all about it. He reveals that Admiral Kimmel was prevented from conducting a routine training exercise at the eleventh hour that would have uncovered the location of the oncoming Japanese fleet. And contrary to previous claims, he shows that the Japanese fleet did not maintain radio silence as it approached Hawaii. Its many coded cables were intercepted and decoded by American cryptographers in Stations on Hawaii and in Seattle.
The evidence is overwhelming. At the highest levels--on FDR's desk--America had ample warning of the pending attack. At those same levels, it was understood that the isolationist American public would not support a declaration of war unless we were attacked first. The result was a plan to anger Japan, to keep the loyal officers responsible for Pearl Harbor in the dark, and thus to drag America into the greatest war of her existence.
Yet even having found what he calls the "terrible truth," Stinnett is still inclined to forgive. "I sympathize with the agonizing dilemma faced by President Roosevelt," he writes. "He was forced to find circuitous means to persuade an isolationist America to join in a fight for freedom....It is easier to take a critical view of this policy a half century removed than to understand fully what went on in Roosevelt's mind in the year prior to Pearl Harbor."
Day of Deceit is the definitive final chapter on America's greatest secret and our worst military disaster."
RGR, I didn't want to respond to this in the "nuke Japan" thread and hijack it. So I will put my comments in a new thread.
I have researched this myself because certain things on Dec 7, 1941, did not add up.
1. Virtually all the warships hit at Pearl Harbor were obsolete and left over from WWI and lined up and tied together.
2. All of our carriers and most of our newer warships were not at Pearl. They were at sea. Coincidence? I don't believe in coincidences.
3. There is no doubt that the US knew an attack was coming and that Pearl would be hit.
4. Most US citizens and most of congress were isolationists and/or pacifists.
5. Only a few days prior to the attack, the Army was ordered to cluster and line up their aircraft, fighters and bombers, instead of dispersing them.
6. Radar warnings were ignored by the higher ups on the morning of Dec 7th.
These few facts I have been able to ascertain from a variety of sources. Evidence seems to indicate that we had broken the Japanese Naval codes prior to Dec 7th; but there is some controversy about that.
My personal take is this (my opinion and a $1.50 will buy you a cup of coffee):
Roosevelt knew that our entry into the war was inevitable and the longer we delayed our entry, the worse the situation would be. He viewed a probable attack on Pearl Harbor as a wake up call that would shake the nation out of its isolationist mood (it certainly did that!). And he definitely wanted to aid Great Britain whose back was to the wall.
I think Roosevelt, his intelligence advisors and the top military brass all greatly under estimated the Japanese capability. Orientals were stereotyped as backward, inferior, etc. and I think the policy makers fell prey to this. I believe they thought the damage from an attack would be considerably less with a small loss of life.
Also, the US was in a deep depression and an all out war effort would definitely put people to work
I believe that Roosevelt made the decision to let the attack happen for the reasons above. I also believe he was as shocked as anyone over the devastation and loss of life the Japanese wrought. I don’t buy that he goaded the Japanese into attacking. They didn’t need goading; they were bent on conquering the western Pacific and ensuring a safe raw material supply (oil and rubber).
For me, the most convincing evidence is the fact that our carriers and newer warships were at sea and not near Pearl. And all our assets at Pearl, ships and aircraft, were congregated and not dispersed. Not something you normally do if you know an attack is coming. Yet the newer warships were safely dispersed at sea.
Perhaps another reason should be explored. The Brits had broken the German codes by 1939 and possessed a German “Enigma†encoding machine. This, needless to say, was highly classified. The Brits intercepted Hitler’s plans to bomb Coventry, which was primarily a civilian target. Churchill had a major dilemma. He had to chose between warning Coventry and evacuating the city which would tip the German’s off that their codes were not secure or not evacuating the city and suffering thousands of civilian deaths. Operation Overlord was on the table and the intelligence gleamed from the broken German codes was vital to the success of the Normandy invasion. Churchill chose to sacrifice Coventry in an effort to save more allied lives as they subdued the continent.
Maybe Roosevelt faced this same dilemma and chose not to tip the Japanese off that we had broken their codes, believing this choice would save more lives in the long run.
Just my opinion.