DFW1911
Member
It is indeed!
I also find it incredible that the M1911 was the primary U.S. military sidearm from 1911....until 1985
That is quite a track record.
On this day in 1911...
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It is indeed!
I also find it incredible that the M1911 was the primary U.S. military sidearm from 1911....until 1985
That is quite a track record.
Don't forget that JMB also came up with the 45 ACP round. I don't think anyone has mentioned it yet, but he also designed the M2, which is still the standard issue heavy machine gun of the U.S. Military and probably won't be replaced any time soon. He also designed the 50 BMG round used by that machine gun.
The guy really deserves more credit. I don't think hardly anyone outside of historians and firearms hobbyists even knows who he was.
The guy really deserves more credit. I don't think hardly anyone outside of historians and firearms hobbyists even knows who he was.
LRS_Ranger
Member
"I also find it incredible that the M1911 was the primary U.S. military sidearm from 1911....until 1985"
&*#$ Beretta...
&*#$ Beretta...
I was just reading American Rifleman's article on the M9 that was published a couple months ago. It just said that Congress pressured the Military into adapting a 9mm pistol to conform with NATO. It would seem that the Military saw no reason to drop the M1911 as the standard issue sidearm, but they were forced to switch to a 9mm. Of the 9mms they tested, the Beretta came out on top.
Domineaux
Member
And how many soldiers/marines/etc would still take the M1911 over the M9 (and most that get the choice seem to choose right)!
Domineaux
Member
I wish I knew of a family member who might have had such an important memento to keep in the family. If anyone in my family had though I expect it would have been sold off very fast and cheap.
Wildyams
Member
Ever since my 18th birthday, I've made it a tradition to go out and buy myself a gun for a birthday present to me.. this year I already picked it up, but next year.. I think I know what i'll be saving for and my birthday is in 2 weeks, so its pretty good timing
Wildyams
Member
http://www.kimberamerica.com/products/centennial/ Kimber is making a centennial edition.. only 250 available
Harvey
Member
Dealing in death can be sooo inspirational, and we have Mr. John Browning to thank for the 1911 .- . and so many other fine firearms design. All of them deemed wonderful products conceived to kill another man.
Consider for a second another man named Gatling, another soul with the genius to create machines specifically intended for mankind's destruction. His passion was to put onto the battlefield a weapon so terrible. - . an inanimate machine so mechanically and politically devastating . - . as to be a weapon to end all wars.
However well intended, Mr. Brown and Mr. Gatling, may you forever rest in peace. Thank you.
Consider for a second another man named Gatling, another soul with the genius to create machines specifically intended for mankind's destruction. His passion was to put onto the battlefield a weapon so terrible. - . an inanimate machine so mechanically and politically devastating . - . as to be a weapon to end all wars.
However well intended, Mr. Brown and Mr. Gatling, may you forever rest in peace. Thank you.
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Old Shooter
Member
Better to deal death than to be dealt it.
Browing and Gatling gave us the tools to do so.
Browing and Gatling gave us the tools to do so.
Domineaux
Member
Harvey, the M1911 is almost entirely a self defense tool so you would have had our soldiers have no last line of defense at all. Must be living on Treasure Island in your head as well.
ps. Leave it to Kimber to bring out a $4000+ M1911 for the occasion. Nothing says honor the anniversary so well as giving all your money to Kimber (and much of it into the hands of a gun unfriendly state).
ps. Leave it to Kimber to bring out a $4000+ M1911 for the occasion. Nothing says honor the anniversary so well as giving all your money to Kimber (and much of it into the hands of a gun unfriendly state).
DFW1911
Member
Harvey,
This thread was started to bring attention to the anniversary date of the 1911 being adopted by the U.S. Military, nothing more. The date is significant to many of us who served in the military since this was the sidearm we used.
While diverse are opinions are welcome here on THR, please don't try to hijack this thread with anything considered off topic (of the thread).
Start your own and state you opinions there.
Regards,
DFW1911
This thread was started to bring attention to the anniversary date of the 1911 being adopted by the U.S. Military, nothing more. The date is significant to many of us who served in the military since this was the sidearm we used.
While diverse are opinions are welcome here on THR, please don't try to hijack this thread with anything considered off topic (of the thread).
Start your own and state you opinions there.
Regards,
DFW1911
Domineaux
Member
Truly, can you imagine the state of our .mil over the past 100 years if not for JMB?
Certainly more than worthy of a spot in the history books in School.
Fergy35
Member
The man was a genius, plain and simple. I, for one, would like to see some of the designs that were bought up by Colt and Winchester - just so the competition couldn't get them - and never made. I bet there is some amazing stuff in there.
An Extraordinary Cavalry Weapon
I had not really thought about it until I read The Gun Digest Book of the Model 1911 by Patrick Sweeney, but the Model 1911 was first intended as a cavalry weapon, and it was put into service before the Army had adopted motorized vehicles.
The Model T Ford went into production in 1908, and the first mention I've been able to find about military use puts the beginning of its army career at 1916 along the Mexican border. Though Studebaker had made a few gasoline powered vehicles at that time, they were still making essentially the same wagons that had served the Army during the Civil War.
Many of us may think of the Model 1911 as residing on the hip of an MP or an officer in a Jeep or Dodge Command Car, or in the kit of a B-17 crewman. The above history is enlightening.
Think about it: the Model 1911 was put into service to fulfill the same function as the Colt Model 1873 and the Model 1860 before it. The first cavalrymen to be issued the Model 1873 must have been thrilled to be able to eject the metallic cases one at a time and replace them with self-contained metallic cartridges. That was a tremendous advance over the Model 1860.
Army armorers, no doubt thinking of what had happened at the Little Big Horn while looking at the Luger that the Swiss and Germans were putting into service and considering the latest offerings in self-loading pistols from Colt, Mannlicher, and Mauser, must have been amazed in the advances being made at the turn of the last century and what they could mean to the cavalryman.
They came up with the greatest cavalry side-arm of all time.
By the way, I had a friend who retired from the Army after a second tour in Viet Nam. He had demonstrated firing and reloading the Model 1911 while riding a horse--to none other than Herbert Hoover.
I had not really thought about it until I read The Gun Digest Book of the Model 1911 by Patrick Sweeney, but the Model 1911 was first intended as a cavalry weapon, and it was put into service before the Army had adopted motorized vehicles.
The Model T Ford went into production in 1908, and the first mention I've been able to find about military use puts the beginning of its army career at 1916 along the Mexican border. Though Studebaker had made a few gasoline powered vehicles at that time, they were still making essentially the same wagons that had served the Army during the Civil War.
Many of us may think of the Model 1911 as residing on the hip of an MP or an officer in a Jeep or Dodge Command Car, or in the kit of a B-17 crewman. The above history is enlightening.
Think about it: the Model 1911 was put into service to fulfill the same function as the Colt Model 1873 and the Model 1860 before it. The first cavalrymen to be issued the Model 1873 must have been thrilled to be able to eject the metallic cases one at a time and replace them with self-contained metallic cartridges. That was a tremendous advance over the Model 1860.
Army armorers, no doubt thinking of what had happened at the Little Big Horn while looking at the Luger that the Swiss and Germans were putting into service and considering the latest offerings in self-loading pistols from Colt, Mannlicher, and Mauser, must have been amazed in the advances being made at the turn of the last century and what they could mean to the cavalryman.
They came up with the greatest cavalry side-arm of all time.
By the way, I had a friend who retired from the Army after a second tour in Viet Nam. He had demonstrated firing and reloading the Model 1911 while riding a horse--to none other than Herbert Hoover.
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Officers'Wife
Member
Hi Harvey,
Each invention no matter how seemingly evil or good has two sides. Edison and Westinghouse developed the electrical system that makes modern culture possible. One of the first uses of that system was the electric chair method of execution.
Nothing is all good or all bad, while I'm sure the Germans that had to face Mr Browning's guns thought them tools of the devil, the French in Paris, the Jews and Gypsy's at Belsen and other death camps may have had quite different opinions.
Mr Browning did far more to ensure you have the right to criticize him than your criticism will ever accomplish.
Selena
Each invention no matter how seemingly evil or good has two sides. Edison and Westinghouse developed the electrical system that makes modern culture possible. One of the first uses of that system was the electric chair method of execution.
Nothing is all good or all bad, while I'm sure the Germans that had to face Mr Browning's guns thought them tools of the devil, the French in Paris, the Jews and Gypsy's at Belsen and other death camps may have had quite different opinions.
Mr Browning did far more to ensure you have the right to criticize him than your criticism will ever accomplish.
Selena
DFW1911
Member
Very enlightening post.
I'm sure any trooper would have been delighted to get a semi auto that could, literally, stop a charging horse (or truck!).
Cavalry - I never would have guessed it.
Thanks again,
DFW1911
Domineaux
Member
Wonderful posts by both Officers'Wife and Kleanbore
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Harvey
Member
My apologies, Domineaux and Officers'wife, that you seem so lost in the dark irony of my post as to have read past the praise and thanks to both Mr. Brown and Mr. Gatling for their contribution to the development of classic weaponry. Kindly try it again.
The genius of these two is likened to the vision of Oppenheimer and Fermi, all four on a mission exacting the fullest development of mankind. Are their creations to be used for the good of man? ... or for his doom? From what history shows us so far, it has been a little of both. So far.
And if it were not for plastic pistols (or until some other 'projectile' replaces the metal and gun powder cartridge) the venerable 1911 could live on to see another hundred years of inherent handgun design perfection.
Regards.
The genius of these two is likened to the vision of Oppenheimer and Fermi, all four on a mission exacting the fullest development of mankind. Are their creations to be used for the good of man? ... or for his doom? From what history shows us so far, it has been a little of both. So far.
And if it were not for plastic pistols (or until some other 'projectile' replaces the metal and gun powder cartridge) the venerable 1911 could live on to see another hundred years of inherent handgun design perfection.
Regards.
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Officers'Wife
Member
No person is immune for Shiva, nor is any invention. Doctor Gatling's gun was a hope to help end the most destructive war our nation has known. Mr Browning's guns were designed to give our nation as great a parity in modern small arms as his genius would allow. Attempting to apply 21 century 'morals' to 19th and 20th century situations is at best a fool's errand.
As for Fermi and Oppenheimer... If not for the product of their labor the United States would have had to invade the Japanese homeland which, considering the invasion of Okinawa would have caused far more civilian deaths than the bombings of Hirosima and Nagasaki times 6. The only evil in their work was brought about by the politicians. Had nuclear power been put in the hands of the engineers instead of taken over by the likes of Truman and Khrushchev our dependence on fossil fuels would be moot point.
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