Online "discount" gun dealers

[JohnBT]

"However treating the guy with a fatter wallet with more respect is still no excuse."

Is it okay that they call me by name when I walk in? I don't insist they drop what they're doing to talk to me because after 40 years they know I'll be around and if today isn't good I'll come back.

Actually, the manager of one shop just before last Christmas when the place was slam packed agreed with me that maybe they could arrange a "private viewing" after hours. Gun sales by appointment. What an idea. Uh-oh, is that elitest?

Another shop owner kept the place open past closing (while the employees fidgeted) to show me the photo album of the safari he went on and to try to get me interested in booking through them.

I don't see any of that as service. It's just retail with a smile.

John

 

[jcwit]

I started in the retail business at the age of 13 way back in 1956. The store normally closed at 6:00 pm, however if there were customers present the lights were not turned off till the last customer left, no matter how long it took. Then the lights were turned off and the doors locked and the cash counted. Normally on Saturday nights we closed at 8:00 pm but I remember many a Saturday night the cash wasn't counted till 11:00 pm.

If perchance a customer called the owner or myself at home the store was opened no matter what the hour and service was provided. I remember on one occasion when a well for a chicken house went dry, the farmer and myself worked till 5:00 in the morning to get it back on line and working.

In todays business environment how many retail business would be willing to offer that type of service.

 

[TITAN308]

Couldn't resist... (so sue me! lol)

In todays business environment how many retail business would be willing to offer that type of service.

None, save one exception. The small business owner who knows every customer counts.

On the flip side. "The customer is always right" is the biggest line of garbage ever. The consumers have often times become as bad as the producer.

 

[beatledog7]

Some customers are sure they should get special treatment

If I were a retail shop owner (I'm not), outside normal open hours I would strongly consider assisting customers by appointment, maybe even for an additional fee. That way, I can recommend a private sales consult to the guy who wants to spend 90 minutes hemming and hawing. This would have to be approached diplomatically, of course, but many customers appreciate the personal touch and like being treated like a VIP.

They are all VIPs if they have money to spend.

 

[jcwit]

None, save one exception. The small business owner who knows every customer counts.

Was not the case for the owner who I worked for. He owned one if not the largest retail business in town. Owned one of the largest farms in the county. But every customer DID count, but only from a service standpoint. Needless to say he was old school.

 

[TITAN308]

Keep in mind I was referring to your question of businesses today, not of yesterday.

 

[jcwit]

Why should business practices change?

Give less and less service then complain about the big box stores taking over. Or in this case the online retailers.

 

[Zach S]

For example, Bud's sells for cheap but wheres the service? These are a sampling of recent posts from their Facebook page by customers:

Hey Buds! My order, 382360 is on it's seventh day. Will it ship today?

order # 386296 been over 7 days still processing. Just wondering if it is going to ship soon? Thanks

A friend of mine purchased a Ruger LCP W/CrimsonTrace laser this past Sat. the evelation screw is missing . He works out of town wants to know should he return it to buds or send to Crimson Trace

Order #380134 been over 10 days since I ordered, got a long letter saying things were back ordered. Was the item sold when u had one in stock? Let me know a timeline please, I am used to buds being speedy an efficient.

Order #379032 I am tired of waiting. Can I cancel the order and get my money back?

Is there a shipping update for #386976? This item was moved very quickly to the shipping department on Monday after payment had cleared, but hasn't shipped yet. Thanks

Did you bother to read the comments? Buds has replied to every one of those posts, including the last one, which shipped out shortly after the post.

IMO, the customers are just impatient. I got the jist from a recent thread that two weeks to be the norm for ordering a gun, and the OP was out of line cancelling the order after ten days.

While you cant get the level of service through a computer that you can face to face, I think buds is doing pretty well. Granted, they're not on par with Brownells, but I think Brownells sets the bar pretty high.

 

[TenRingGuns.com]

No way. Paying up front for a gun and then waiting 7+ days isn't being impatient. That's just bad service.

The problem is it's how they tend to do business. I'll bet if the customer knew they had to pay and then wait 7 days to begin with, they would've walked away and bought some where else.

I don't take a cent from my customers until my guns are in (if I need to order them), exceptions being if its a huge order. They tell me what they want, I place the order, then they come pick it up, and off they go.

 

[Zach S]

I'll bet if the customer knew they had to pay and then wait 7 days to begin with, they would've walked away and bought some where else.

Well, I would have bought locally, if I could have found locally. When I ordered my Spartan, I knew that it would take 5 to 7 business days for it to ship after my E check cleared. It was mentioned a few times during the checkout process before I hit the "Confirm Order" button. That doesn't seem unusual to me. I've been through the same thing with various other vendors, with various other products.

I don't take a cent from my customers until my guns are in

That's one of the advantages of a FTF deal. Not really an option for an online transaction.

 

[TenRingGuns.com]

Online is a little different, but, you could take a deposit instead of the full amount.

You could also place a hold of the amount on the card and not release it until the gun ships.

Little things like that go a long way. You also get the sense that Bud's isn't communicating with their customers. Big mistake. It's clear they aren't being up front about the potential (and probable) delays and not communicating at all when they occur.

I always err on the side of over-communication with my customers.

 

[wojownik]

I was sitting back thinking about this thread, and one factoid struck me. There's been a lot of references to budsgunshop.com. Point of fact, they are also a brick and mortar gun store in Lexington KY. So they are an LGS as well (http://www.thegunwarehouse.com/), with a shooting range.

Just sounds like Bud's nailed an optimal diversified business model in their niche. A well stocked LGS, with diversified services (range, etc.), complimented by a very robust on-line presence.

Strikes me as a very interesting - though "politically incorrect" - case study for someone to tackle in a business school class

As far as communications, I'm not sure what the issue is. Order something on line, get e-mail confirmation, wait for item to get delivered 7-10 business days later at your friendly local FFL. The amazon.com of firearms, handling - say - almost 300,000 online transactions to date? That's a guesstimate, they were over 200,000 transactions in 2009, and their business has been spiraling upward since then.

 

[JohnBT]

"I'll bet if the customer knew they had to pay and then wait 7 days to begin with, they would've walked away "

Nuts, what's a week? I spent thousands on furniture a few weeks ago, cheap furniture, and it won't be here unil mid-April. A week for a gun? Jeez.

John

 

[jcwit]

I had to wait a month for my Corvette to be delivered.

 

[wojownik]

LOL, I've been waiting for 6 weeks now for Gunvault to send me my replacement keys for my stupid Minivault.

 

[TITAN308]

I had to wait 20 minutes once at Zaxbys.

Do you have ANY idea how long 20 minutes feels when your so hungry you munch away on ice chips from the soda machine in anticipation.

Insane!

 

[Teachu2]

Online is a little different, but, you could take a deposit instead of the full amount.

You could also place a hold of the amount on the card and not release it until the gun ships.

Little things like that go a long way. You also get the sense that Bud's isn't communicating with their customers. Big mistake. It's clear they aren't being up front about the potential (and probable) delays and not communicating at all when they occur.

I always err on the side of over-communication with my customers.

If you are really interested in how your competition does business, go to their website and pick a gun. Go through the order process and read what is stated in the policies - then just don't submit the order. Or even better, buy a Hi-Point pistol or such, so that you get to see all the communications that Bud's sends a customer.

They quite probably sell more guns in a day than most non-storefront FFLs do in a year. I bought a S&W 686+ Pro from them after the locals told me that it was not available - even though it was on both Bud's and Smith & Wesson's websites. It shipped within the specified timeframe, with an emailed tracking number, to my transfer dealer. It was over $100 less than the best local quote. I was so upset at this level of service that I ordered three more guns from Bud's, including one that wasn't CA compliant. Bud's was very pleasant and effecient about that one, cancelling the order the same day. On the three I bought, they authorized the credit card when the order was placed, and charged it when the order shipped. Nothing wrong with that - and I get a minimum of three weeks to pay it off with no fees or interest, at the cash price!

Bottom line is since I'm going to have to wait 10 days anyway, I might as well wait 20 and save 15-20%. I don't need handholding, or even "expert" advice, as I research the gun in forums like this one, at the local ranges, and elsewhere.

My local gun shops want to charge me MSRP for the same level of service. That's like going in for a $25 oil change and when they hand you the bill, it's $175. When you object, the tell you "We charged you for an oil change, a transmission fluid change, and a radiator flush because we offer all those services - even though you chose not to make use of them!"

 

[RhinoDefense]

I'm an 07/02 FFL/SOT firearm and ammunition manufacturer. I don't sell firearms or ammunition other what what I make myself, except for rimfire ammunition because it sells, makes me money, and I don't load it.

For customers wanting other brands of firearms I do Title I transfers for $20 per firearm and Title II transfers for $50 per firearm.

I like doing transfers because it's less paperwork than buying it myself and less work since I'm selling a service and not a product. Smooth transfers don't take long, average 20 minutes (talking about Title I only) from customer arriving to customer leaving with a smile. The reason I charge what I charge is it takes time to process a transfer, do paperwork, and I have to hold onto those 4473s for 20 freaking years before I can destroy them. That takes up a lot of space and space costs money. Customers pay for that time, paperwork, and storage of paperwork with the transfer fee.

Best thing about transfers is I make money by spending a little bit of time and no cash. When inventory doesn't move, it is costing you money, not making you money.

Businesses exist to make profit; they do so by selling a product or service.

Being a manufacturer it allows me to keep my capital focused in my brand and not others. Transfers are additional revenue and profit, plus provide for marketing my own products. The wall behind the transfer counter is glass so customers can see the shop part of the building. There's a reason for that. I'm marketing to their curiosity which leads them to be interested in my products which I make a lot of money making and selling them.

When a firearm comes in for transfer, I couldn't care less what the buyer paid for it. I just want my transfer fee. If the customer paid less than wholesale for it, I still make my $20. I'm concerned with what I'm paid, not what someone else got paid.

 

[Davek1977]

As far as the "if they knew they had to wait 7 days, i bet they would have walked" comment....BS. I'll GLADLY wait a week for gun to come in rather than pay $100 more for it from the local dealer. As far as Bud's communication, considering the volume of sales they do, I've found their communication to be absolutely wonderful. A handful of negative comments doesn't dissuade me from doing business with a particular companyu, especially when i know those with negative experiences tend to be more vocal, and when you do as much business as Bud's does, sometimes the issue isn't on the company's end, but on the customers. If buds sold 3-4 guns a week, and had that many negative comments, I'd certainly believe there was an issue, but when the complaints are a tiny fraction of the overall sales, they don't carry nearly as much weight to me. I like Bud's, and would galdly do business with them again based on price and service. There are other businesses in this thread I'd refuse to do business with on principal, based on the attitudes revealed in this thread

I know things because I was a cop that the average gun owner doesn't

Sorry pal, but in my conversations with many law enforcement officers over the years, I've concluded they know no more about guns than most avid shooters, and in many cases, know considerably less. Sure, some cops are "gun guys" ....and some give no more thought about guns than they do any other tool used on the job. The idea that "I'm a cop so I know more about guns than you" is the exact sort of elitist attitude that would immediately rub me the wrong way. When you start out assuming you are more knowledgeable than the person you are engaging in conversation, you've already made your first mistake

 

[TenRingGuns.com]

Hi Davek

Yes, customers will walk. You obviously haven't owned a gun business before.

Are you former LEO Davek? I detect a tone of agitation and defensiveness in you post.

Clearly, you're unaware of the 1000's of hours of training that LEO's receive. LEO's do know more about guns, tactics, etc. than most gun owners, there's nothing to assume, that's a fact. There are also things LEO's don't know/skills that need to be refreshed, but that's why they train. The job requires the ability to be continually learning new things all the time.

With the assumptions of an "elitist attitude" your making you'll most certainly be rubbed the wrong way.

 

[CoRoMo]

Here's one:
Say that you're looking for gun 'X' on Gunbroker.

Seller 'A' is selling it at $500.00 delivered.
Seller 'B' is selling it at $499.00 delivered.
Both have similar 'A+' ratings there.

By a show of hands, how many would buy it from Seller 'A'?

 

[Scimmia]

Clearly, you're unaware of the amount of training that LEO's receive. LEO's do know more about guns, tactics, etc. than most gun owners, there's nothing to assume, that's a fact. There are also things LEO's don't know/skills that need to be refreshed, that's why they train.

Unfortunately, virtually every LEO I've spoken to, including federal level, know very little about guns. They're issued their Glocks, that's what they train with, and that's the extent of their knowledge. Many, or even most, aren't even good shots.

Few of them will admit it, though. Most subscribe to your theory that because they've had some training, they know everything there is to know, far more than the the little people - you know, the ones who have an actual interest in the subject.

I was out shooting with some friends and a Deputy Marshal over the holidays. Later that week, he took my brother to help him go gun shopping.

 

[mdauben]

My local store provides an indoor target range I can use when its too hot/cold/wet to shoot outdoors. They provide ammunition and supplies RIGHT NOW, and not in a couple of days. They provide a place for me to handle a new gun, get a feel for its handling and quality. All those things are worth something to me and I would hate to lose my access to them becuase the shop was driven out of buisness by on-line retailers. So, if the price difference is anywere near reasonable (which to me hovers around 10-15%) I'll by preference deal with my local shop.

When the price difference gets too large, I will cave in and order on-line, but luckily I have a large local shop that has the sales volume to offer near on-line pricing on most things, so its usually not an issue.

 

[Teachu2]

[Are you former LEO Davek? I detect a tone of agitation and defensiveness in you post.

Clearly, you're unaware of the amount of training that LEO's receive. LEO's do know more about guns, tactics, etc. than most gun owners, there's nothing to assume, that's a fact. There are also things LEO's don't know/skills that need to be refreshed, that's why they train.

/QUOTE]

As a former LEO, I have to agree with Davek. While most LEOs know more about firearms than most average citizens, they know far less than most firearms enthusiasts/gun nuts. They use a very limited group of firearms in a highly structured manner - and often not very well. In my academy class, I was the only shooter who broke doubles on the skeet range, as an example.

There are LEOs who are very knowledgable about firearms - because they are enthusiasts, not because they are LEOs. There are also LEOs who are knowledgable about automotive design and performance, but not from the driving course they got.

 

[AABEN]

Pardoning your mutilation of the Queen's, I THINK you're trying to say that he needs to cover overhead and this should be expected to be the "least he can make", or maybe "pay the lease."

35% (your number) on a 1000 dollar gun is 350 dollars. I refuse to pay hundreds of dollars over wholesale price just to keep a local gun store in business. Also, I call BS on your figure of 35%. A successful gun store moves MUCH product, yet their overhead remains the same. A successful gun store would be able to get by with a slimmer profit margin, as they would be selling quantity.

That being said, other than being able to inspect before you buy, online sales are better. It comes closer to you, it's cheaper, the selection is better, etc, etc. Am I supposed to 'feel bad' and 'support' a gun store? Of course not, it would be like refusing to deal with email because you like the postal service.

Lastly, dealing with your insinuation that I should discount my labor, you should realize that a firearm is a good, not a service. Thus, I can get the same good from elsewhere and it is not somehow 'more special' because it went through a gun store. Capitalism means that, when someone finds a better way to do your thing, you either adapt, or lose. This is not a socialist country, I don't have an obligation to support outdated methodology, and I can shop where I choose. End of article.

I had a gun store for 8 years before I retired and started to trivial with my wife. YES 35% will keep the door open! If you think you can get by for less then OPEN your own dam store and see how longer you keep it up and make a living out of it!! Factory suggest a 50% mark up. So I can see that you have never own your own business.