MCgunner
Member
I thought about the 280 when I bought the 7 mag. I figured I could always load DOWN to 280 ballistics. Same rifle (2" more barrel), same price, I got the mag.
Opinions: Have .30-06, buy 7mm RemMag?
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MCgunner
Member
Well, I like the 280 a lot and sorta for the same reason, it's not one everyone pounces on, low in popularity, yet high in performance. I've always liked the .41 mag for the same reason. But, it just came down to logic for me at the time. I'm glad I got the 7 mag 'cause I later got the .308. I'd be in a real quandary trying to decide whether to carry a .280 or the .308. LOL Since I got it, I've used nothing else but that .308. It's a fine caliber, too. 
DKA
Member
Have both and like them a lot. You should keep your 06 and get the 7MM Mag.
gyp_c2
Member
Dude!
...save the money and buy more .30 ammo!
...save the money and buy more .30 ammo!
lefteyedom
Member
The 257 Weatherby, your 30.06 and a 338 Win Mag you would have the perfect North American three gun set up.
The 7 are great but the Big 7s, 7 Rem Mag, 7 STW, 7 Weatherby all try to burn way too much powder in a small tube. 7-08, 7X57, and 280 Rem are all better balanced cartridges and able to handle any game in north America short of Big Bears.
The 7 are great but the Big 7s, 7 Rem Mag, 7 STW, 7 Weatherby all try to burn way too much powder in a small tube. 7-08, 7X57, and 280 Rem are all better balanced cartridges and able to handle any game in north America short of Big Bears.
Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
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Well, let's not kid ourselves - MC Gunner has it right when he says it DOES have a significant amount of more flat shooting performance - but ONLY at looooong ranges (out at 350 or 400 yards plus). But few people live in the desert-y areas where you can see that far (little or no forest canopy), and even fewer live in those areas AND are willing to do what it takes to accurize the rifle AND utilize extensive solid field rests in order to actually make hits at those ranges. Yes, I know there's long range hunters that shoot at 600-1000 yards, but those guys really really know what they're doing, and are using essentially benchrest guns ON benches with serious optics, to do their "hunting".
There are many areas here where you can see, and could theoretically shoot, a lot farther -- both in sage desert and in the mountains in steep terrain.
My practice so far has led me to this set of guidelines:
Offhand, standing, 150 yards max with hasty sling.
Seated, 250 yards max with elbows supported.
Using shooting sticks, seated, 350 yards max (so far -- some refinement still left to do).
Those are the maximum distances where I can pop balloons. I did pop a couple standing offhand at 300 yards, but if I can't pop them ALL, I don't think I should hunt that way.
I MIGHT be able to pull off a 400 yard shot with sticks. I'm going to do some more field practice and see. Even from a solid machine rest, though, a good 3/4 MOA rifle would shoot no better than 3" groups in dead-still air.
I figure 400 is right about where a .30-06 really starts to tail off, even with good polymer-tipped bullets, good loads, etc. If I don't plan to shoot any farther, it should hold its own. In the real world, with wind, imperfect rests, adrenaline, etc., I really don't think that I could call anything past 400 an ethical shot, at least for me. Probably closer to 300, and not just a quick offhand shot, either.
I figure I should practice FARTHER away than I would shoot while hunting, not just practice at 100 yards and pray that my rifle and I will hit something at 4 times that distance when the chips are down.
The 7mm Rem Mag's numbers do look pretty good. If I didn't already have a rifle...
So, I'm sort of back to my original thought -- a serious elk rifle like a .338 or even a tad bigger, and a crazy flat shooter like a .257 Wby for antelope and the like, might be worth adding, with the .30-06 to fill in the middle of the spectrum, act as a backup rifle, etc.
Thanks!
My practice so far has led me to this set of guidelines:
Offhand, standing, 150 yards max with hasty sling.
Seated, 250 yards max with elbows supported.
Using shooting sticks, seated, 350 yards max (so far -- some refinement still left to do).
Those are the maximum distances where I can pop balloons. I did pop a couple standing offhand at 300 yards, but if I can't pop them ALL, I don't think I should hunt that way.
I MIGHT be able to pull off a 400 yard shot with sticks. I'm going to do some more field practice and see. Even from a solid machine rest, though, a good 3/4 MOA rifle would shoot no better than 3" groups in dead-still air.
I figure 400 is right about where a .30-06 really starts to tail off, even with good polymer-tipped bullets, good loads, etc. If I don't plan to shoot any farther, it should hold its own. In the real world, with wind, imperfect rests, adrenaline, etc., I really don't think that I could call anything past 400 an ethical shot, at least for me. Probably closer to 300, and not just a quick offhand shot, either.
I figure I should practice FARTHER away than I would shoot while hunting, not just practice at 100 yards and pray that my rifle and I will hit something at 4 times that distance when the chips are down.
The 7mm Rem Mag's numbers do look pretty good. If I didn't already have a rifle...
So, I'm sort of back to my original thought -- a serious elk rifle like a .338 or even a tad bigger, and a crazy flat shooter like a .257 Wby for antelope and the like, might be worth adding, with the .30-06 to fill in the middle of the spectrum, act as a backup rifle, etc.
Thanks!
jpwilly
Member
I've looked over a number of ballistics charts. The 150gr and 165gr bullets from the 30-06 are within 2" to 3" of the 7mm Rem Mag at 400yards with very similar energy.
For flat shooting the .270 would be one of the best with 130gr bullets.
For flat shooting the .270 would be one of the best with 130gr bullets.
If you look at the hotter loads such as Hornady light magnums you will find the standard calibers such as 270,280,30-06 will hang with the magnums at long range pretty well. A hot loaded 140 grain 280 will be within 150 foot pounds of energy and only drop 2" more than a 150 grain 300win mag at 500 yards. With heavier bullets you can get more energy out of the 300, but with more drop. With todays better bullets I do not think it would matter a bit to anything you hit at those ranges whether it was a 180 grain 30cal or 140 grain 284 cal.
I have not looked closeley at the 270 or 30-06 but expect them to be pretty close as well.
I have not looked closeley at the 270 or 30-06 but expect them to be pretty close as well.
If you were thinking about starting from scratch there might be something to talk about, but I suspect in the end the 30-06 would win out anyway. Get some Light Magnum 150 grain loads for long shots.
Since you already own a 30-06 you're happy with, there is no point in even thinking about a 7mm Mag.
Since you already own a 30-06 you're happy with, there is no point in even thinking about a 7mm Mag.
Arkel23
Member
Get a .300 win or wby mag or a .300wsm and call it a day. Edit: There is a difference between the 7mm rem mag and 30-06 the 7mm rem mag is push a 150 gr at 3,000 fp/s+ while the 30-06 doesn't break that barrier. I have to lengthen this 4 more characters.
Uncle Mike
Member
I'd get the .257 WBY-
You have everything else covered....Honestly, how many 400y or even 300y shots have you made on game....
Your ol' 30-06 will do you just fine for the most part, the .257WBY is different enough to offer you some fun, and it will do nicely at range on the appropriately sized game.
You have everything else covered....Honestly, how many 400y or even 300y shots have you made on game....
Your ol' 30-06 will do you just fine for the most part, the .257WBY is different enough to offer you some fun, and it will do nicely at range on the appropriately sized game.
usmc1371
Member
I hunt in pretty much the same kind of terrain so I know your pain.
I started out with the 30-06 and it worked just fine for years, the only reason I switched to the 300 wm was a little more range and energy but so far I haven't needed it. My little bro swears by his 338-378 weatherby cause it shoots flatter and carries WAY more energy than the 300's and the sevens don't even compare But its expensive to shoot, heavy to carry, and Very NOT fun to shoot with out the muzzle break. I have never seen much diffarence in the 7mag and 06 I think you have a couple choices: 1 get a rifle that shoots a larger/heavier bullet for elk like 338wm :2 get something that shoots way flatter than the 06 like 270 weatherby, 7mm stw both of wich will work fine for elk but with light bullets shoot laser flat and would be sweet speed goat rounds.
All that being said my longest shot at any game animal was a 340yd shot at a bull elk in the saw tooth Mtns in your neck of the woods. Steep down hill, elk facing almost away, last day, glad I had the 300wm but I don't think the elk would have known the dif if I had been packing my 06. My next rifle will be a Light Weight prob in 30-06 since I notice I seem to carry my hunting rifles way more than I shoot them. Hope some of this long windedness helps.
I started out with the 30-06 and it worked just fine for years, the only reason I switched to the 300 wm was a little more range and energy but so far I haven't needed it. My little bro swears by his 338-378 weatherby cause it shoots flatter and carries WAY more energy than the 300's and the sevens don't even compare But its expensive to shoot, heavy to carry, and Very NOT fun to shoot with out the muzzle break. I have never seen much diffarence in the 7mag and 06 I think you have a couple choices: 1 get a rifle that shoots a larger/heavier bullet for elk like 338wm :2 get something that shoots way flatter than the 06 like 270 weatherby, 7mm stw both of wich will work fine for elk but with light bullets shoot laser flat and would be sweet speed goat rounds.
All that being said my longest shot at any game animal was a 340yd shot at a bull elk in the saw tooth Mtns in your neck of the woods. Steep down hill, elk facing almost away, last day, glad I had the 300wm but I don't think the elk would have known the dif if I had been packing my 06. My next rifle will be a Light Weight prob in 30-06 since I notice I seem to carry my hunting rifles way more than I shoot them. Hope some of this long windedness helps.
Quote:
"Get a .300 win or wby mag or a .300wsm and call it a day. Edit: There is a difference between the 7mm rem mag and 30-06 the 7mm rem mag is push a 150 gr at 3,000 fp/s+ while the 30-06 doesn't break that barrier. I have to lengthen this 4 more characters."
This is not true. Hornady lists factory loads showing the 150 grain 30-06 at 3100fps. Even the 165 is listed at 3015fps.
My reloading manuals show more 150 grain 30-06 loadings at 3000+ fps than 150 grain 7mm Rem mag loads.
"Get a .300 win or wby mag or a .300wsm and call it a day. Edit: There is a difference between the 7mm rem mag and 30-06 the 7mm rem mag is push a 150 gr at 3,000 fp/s+ while the 30-06 doesn't break that barrier. I have to lengthen this 4 more characters."
This is not true. Hornady lists factory loads showing the 150 grain 30-06 at 3100fps. Even the 165 is listed at 3015fps.
My reloading manuals show more 150 grain 30-06 loadings at 3000+ fps than 150 grain 7mm Rem mag loads.
From www.hornady.com
.30-06 Sprg., 150 gr. IB 85199
Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)
Muzzle 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd 400 yd 500 yd
3100/3200 2867/2736 2645/2330 2434/1973 2233/1660 2041/1387
Trajectory (inches)
Muzzle 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd 400 yd 500 yd
-1.50 1.40 0.00 -6.40 -18.60 -37
.30-06 Sprg., 150 gr. IB 85199
Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)
Muzzle 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd 400 yd 500 yd
3100/3200 2867/2736 2645/2330 2434/1973 2233/1660 2041/1387
Trajectory (inches)
Muzzle 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd 400 yd 500 yd
-1.50 1.40 0.00 -6.40 -18.60 -37
MCgunner
Member
Hmm, I've seen the 7mm STW mentioned once or twice in this thread. It was all the hot stuff in the rags 2 decades ago for just that sort of long range stuff. It's pushing several hundred FPS faster than the 7mm Rem Mag. I've never felt the need, just sayin'.
.257 Weatherby would be THE gun for those pronghorns, very flat shooting and light on the shoulder. But, the STW might work pretty well and can shoot elk across those canyons, too. Might could find an STW in a M70 classic. I think Winchester chambered it and it was pretty popular due to all the hype at the time.
Sorry if I'm sounding expensive. I never really care if it ain't my wallet. LOL!
.257 Weatherby would be THE gun for those pronghorns, very flat shooting and light on the shoulder. But, the STW might work pretty well and can shoot elk across those canyons, too. Might could find an STW in a M70 classic. I think Winchester chambered it and it was pretty popular due to all the hype at the time.
Sorry if I'm sounding expensive. I never really care if it ain't my wallet. LOL!
RonE
Member
What difference does it make what cartridge will do what? 7mm Mag and 30-06 are not in the same class. The '06 is much more versitle insofar as bullet selection but the 7mm Mag is faster and flatter.
The real questions are: Do I need another rifle? Do I need 7mm Rem Mag? Is 7mm Rem Mag better than 30-06? Should I get rid of my '06?
The answers are: Yes, always. Yes, of course. Who cares? No, never!
What is the next question?
The real questions are: Do I need another rifle? Do I need 7mm Rem Mag? Is 7mm Rem Mag better than 30-06? Should I get rid of my '06?
The answers are: Yes, always. Yes, of course. Who cares? No, never!
What is the next question?
BENELLIMONTE
member
ARMED'
I am currently looking at Bob Forkers "AMMO & Ballistics2".
When comparing the '06 Federal165gr SierraGameKing load vs the 7mm Rem mag Federal165gr Sierra GameKing it lists the following: '06 with a BC of .470 vs 7mm of .616;
'06 muzzle velocity @ 2800fps vs 7mm @ 2950, 06 muzzle energy @ 2870 ft-lbs vs 7mm@3190,
06 drop @ 300yds when zeroed @ 200yds 7.8"
7mm drop@300yds when zeroed@200yds 6.4
06 energy @ 300yds 1840ft-lbs
7mm energy@ 300yds 2300ft-lbs.
Hope this helps,
'MONTE
I am currently looking at Bob Forkers "AMMO & Ballistics2".
When comparing the '06 Federal165gr SierraGameKing load vs the 7mm Rem mag Federal165gr Sierra GameKing it lists the following: '06 with a BC of .470 vs 7mm of .616;
'06 muzzle velocity @ 2800fps vs 7mm @ 2950, 06 muzzle energy @ 2870 ft-lbs vs 7mm@3190,
06 drop @ 300yds when zeroed @ 200yds 7.8"
7mm drop@300yds when zeroed@200yds 6.4
06 energy @ 300yds 1840ft-lbs
7mm energy@ 300yds 2300ft-lbs.
Hope this helps,
'MONTE
Uncle Mike
Member
As was said... use the Hornady Light Magnum 165gr SST at 3015fps (30-06)..
300y drop with a 200y zero is but 6.7" I think, don't hold me to that.
That mirrors the 7 mag trajectory(160gr) out to say... 400y, give or take a smidge.
Approaches the 300 Win Mag terminals....
So, you can be VERY versatile with the 30-06 just by changing ammo loadings.(assuming factory loads)
Sounds like you want a NEW toy... nothing wrong with that... now to decide which caliber you want, since the majority of them will do what you want and still have some left over... why don't you read up on all the different calibers/loadings, history, et cetera and use something you find that perks your interest concerning that particular cartridge to make your decision.
You might like the 257 because of its design history... or the 284 because of its use of the magical 6.5mm bullet...the 260 because it's yet another 308 based cartridge... who knows, but most of em' will do you just fine in your quest for a speed goat rifle.
Keep in mind... what's the BEST rifle/cartridge combo for one guy just plain ol' sux for the next guy...!
300y drop with a 200y zero is but 6.7" I think, don't hold me to that.
That mirrors the 7 mag trajectory(160gr) out to say... 400y, give or take a smidge.
Approaches the 300 Win Mag terminals....
So, you can be VERY versatile with the 30-06 just by changing ammo loadings.(assuming factory loads)
Sounds like you want a NEW toy... nothing wrong with that... now to decide which caliber you want, since the majority of them will do what you want and still have some left over... why don't you read up on all the different calibers/loadings, history, et cetera and use something you find that perks your interest concerning that particular cartridge to make your decision.
You might like the 257 because of its design history... or the 284 because of its use of the magical 6.5mm bullet...the 260 because it's yet another 308 based cartridge... who knows, but most of em' will do you just fine in your quest for a speed goat rifle.
Keep in mind... what's the BEST rifle/cartridge combo for one guy just plain ol' sux for the next guy...!
Ben Shepherd
Member
Or you could do what I do-
Zero your '06 with your most commonly used 165 grain load. Then just change slug construction for the game being pursued, while staying with the 165 weight. If your really going to limit your range to between 3-350 yards you'll never even really have to re-zero.(ALWAYS fire a few at targets first to verify of course). So far this has worked for me, I haven't tested any that shifted over an inch at 100 yards.
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