Ok so I'm looking to buy a new 9mm as a range or occasional carry gun. I thought i had it narrowed down between a Sig P226 and CZ75B. But while talking to a guy at my local gun shop today I was recommended a 92FS and Glock 17. I am drawn to the price, ease of modification, and price on the Glock. Really hate to drop $800 on the Sig but I love those guns (great crisp trigger). Really like the feel of the CZ though. Too many decision. Hoping some opinions could help me make up my mind. Accuracy and a good trigger are what I value the most with comfortability and ease of operation being close third. Appreciate it guys.
Opinions on a 9mm range gun
- Thread starter redsox55
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All are excellent pistols, but I'm a Cz-75 fan over any of the others listed. The only reason I don't own one is because I can't find one in the configuration and/or finish I like.
EDIT: Also, you'll probably get better baseline accuracy from the Cz because of the way it's constructed (interior slide). People compete with Cz-75s right out of the box.
EDIT: Also, you'll probably get better baseline accuracy from the Cz because of the way it's constructed (interior slide). People compete with Cz-75s right out of the box.
sigarms228
Member
Have you actually tried any of those pistols yet??
All the pistols you mention are mechanically very accurate with maybe slightly more accuracy with the P226.
What matters most is how accurate the pistol is in your hand and that can vary quite a bit from pistol to pistol based on several factors including weight, balance, grip size and feel, grip angle, trigger action quality, perceived recoil, sights, your reach to trigger/finger trigger postition, and of course your skill level. Each person is different so there is obviously no one ideal pistol for everyone and what works great for one person may not so much for the next though as skill level increases one should be able to be pretty competent with most any pistol though may still have a certain one that works best. Also what feels best in your hand may not translate to what you actually shoot best.
In the end the cost of the pistol will be very small when you take in to account range rental fees, possible training fees, driving to and from range, and especially ammo costs so I would NOT base your decision on the price of the gun if at all possible but instead what works best for you.
I would be sure to try out the S&W M&P, the Springfield XDm, the Walther P99 AS, the Walther PPQ, and the H&K P30 while you are at it if possible.
All the pistols you mention are mechanically very accurate with maybe slightly more accuracy with the P226.
What matters most is how accurate the pistol is in your hand and that can vary quite a bit from pistol to pistol based on several factors including weight, balance, grip size and feel, grip angle, trigger action quality, perceived recoil, sights, your reach to trigger/finger trigger postition, and of course your skill level. Each person is different so there is obviously no one ideal pistol for everyone and what works great for one person may not so much for the next though as skill level increases one should be able to be pretty competent with most any pistol though may still have a certain one that works best. Also what feels best in your hand may not translate to what you actually shoot best.
In the end the cost of the pistol will be very small when you take in to account range rental fees, possible training fees, driving to and from range, and especially ammo costs so I would NOT base your decision on the price of the gun if at all possible but instead what works best for you.
I would be sure to try out the S&W M&P, the Springfield XDm, the Walther P99 AS, the Walther PPQ, and the H&K P30 while you are at it if possible.
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Jenrick
Member
In terms of accuracy the Beretta is beast, it has a long barrel and long sigh radius compared to almost all other service pistols. If you find one with a good trigger they are serious shooters, plus 15 rounds of 9mm is great for SD carry.
The 226 is great gun, and so is the Glock. You might check out the G34 (long slide 9mm) they are serious shooters, and Dave Sevigny has pretty much won everything you can win shooting a box stock (or dang close to it) G34. I have all three guns I've mentioned and all are great shooters.
-Jenrick
The 226 is great gun, and so is the Glock. You might check out the G34 (long slide 9mm) they are serious shooters, and Dave Sevigny has pretty much won everything you can win shooting a box stock (or dang close to it) G34. I have all three guns I've mentioned and all are great shooters.
-Jenrick
helitack32f1
Member
As a self described Glock fan, I wholeheartedly recommend a Gen 4 Glock 17. That being said, it sounds like you are open to different possibilities. A couple of amazing guns you haven't mentioned are the Ruger SR-9 and the Springfield XD-M line of pistols.
If you want a good, reliable gun with a trigger that feels better than the Glock IMO and is also less expensive than all you have mentioned, give the Ruger a real good look.
If you want an extremely high quality, accurate and very high capacity 9mm, check out the new XD-M 5.25. It is less expensive than the $800 Sig you were talking about but not by much and it is really too big for consistent concealed carry.
Out of the Guns you mention, I would choose the Glock first, Sig, then the Beretta, and the CZ would fit in there anywhere because I have no experience with them but I hear they are very good.
Using your criteria of "Accuracy and a good trigger are what I value the most with comfortability and ease of operation being close third." I would pick a Gen 4 Glock 17. They have average to above average accuracy, trigger is also average to above average for striker fired pistols, it can be configured to fit your hand with the backstraps, and ease of use is second to none. Reliability is excellent but I would recommend making sure any Gen 4 G17 you buy has the most recent recoil spring in it.
For what it is worth, today I was playing with the XD-M 5.25 and a Ruger SR-9C and the Ruger has the best trigger of any striker fired pistol I have tried. For some reason that trigger does not seem to translate to the full size SR-9, though it is ok too.
Hope that all muddies it up for you some more! If you get a chance, find a place where you can fire all those you are interested in to see which feels better, fits better and works better for you.
Edit: I forgot to mention the Walther PPQ. Everyone I have heard from, raves about the trigger on that thing. As the guys above mentioned, there is a gigantic plethora of guns out there that are all so good, it comes down to personal preference and what works best for you.
If you want a good, reliable gun with a trigger that feels better than the Glock IMO and is also less expensive than all you have mentioned, give the Ruger a real good look.
If you want an extremely high quality, accurate and very high capacity 9mm, check out the new XD-M 5.25. It is less expensive than the $800 Sig you were talking about but not by much and it is really too big for consistent concealed carry.
Out of the Guns you mention, I would choose the Glock first, Sig, then the Beretta, and the CZ would fit in there anywhere because I have no experience with them but I hear they are very good.
Using your criteria of "Accuracy and a good trigger are what I value the most with comfortability and ease of operation being close third." I would pick a Gen 4 Glock 17. They have average to above average accuracy, trigger is also average to above average for striker fired pistols, it can be configured to fit your hand with the backstraps, and ease of use is second to none. Reliability is excellent but I would recommend making sure any Gen 4 G17 you buy has the most recent recoil spring in it.
For what it is worth, today I was playing with the XD-M 5.25 and a Ruger SR-9C and the Ruger has the best trigger of any striker fired pistol I have tried. For some reason that trigger does not seem to translate to the full size SR-9, though it is ok too.
Hope that all muddies it up for you some more! If you get a chance, find a place where you can fire all those you are interested in to see which feels better, fits better and works better for you.
Edit: I forgot to mention the Walther PPQ. Everyone I have heard from, raves about the trigger on that thing. As the guys above mentioned, there is a gigantic plethora of guns out there that are all so good, it comes down to personal preference and what works best for you.
bigfatdave
Member
obviously you need a Springfield Armory XD9sc
crazysccrmd
Member
Can I throw the Hi-Power into this mess?
LiveLife
Member
Best recommendation I can give is:
Handle as many pistols as you can and range test them all. Choose the one that you can shoot the most accurate and fast.
On a personal note, I have shot all 4 mentioned pistols in the OP and can tell you they each have their individual characteristics in regards to recoil and trigger feel whether they are metal framed or have hammer/striker. For me, one of 4 shot more accurate than others and one of 4 shot faster than others (and it is not the same pistol).
That's why you really need to range test them.
I went through a similar exercise when I needed an accurate range 1911 to do load development work. Since it was a range gun only, I didn't need to sacrifice anything in terms of size/weight/features. I shot well over 10 different 1911s and settled on one based on accuracy.
Holes on target speak volumes.
Handle as many pistols as you can and range test them all. Choose the one that you can shoot the most accurate and fast.
On a personal note, I have shot all 4 mentioned pistols in the OP and can tell you they each have their individual characteristics in regards to recoil and trigger feel whether they are metal framed or have hammer/striker. For me, one of 4 shot more accurate than others and one of 4 shot faster than others (and it is not the same pistol).
That's why you really need to range test them. I went through a similar exercise when I needed an accurate range 1911 to do load development work. Since it was a range gun only, I didn't need to sacrifice anything in terms of size/weight/features. I shot well over 10 different 1911s and settled on one based on accuracy.
Holes on target speak volumes.
Capt. Ct.
Member
Just what I was going to say. Don't forget the Browning Hi-Power! As good a range gun as you can get. Then there is also the FN 9mm. Very smooth.
red rick
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If you don't already have a carry gun. I would get 2 guns. A sub compact or compact for carry and a heavier longer sight radius pistol for the range. Start with one, that is the best for you, at it's purpose.
I like the CZ 75 Target or 75SA for a range gun and Walther PPS 9mm for carry. You will soon forget the few hundred dollars more you spent if you get what you want.
If I had to compromise a CZ 75 Compact or G19.
I like the CZ 75 Target or 75SA for a range gun and Walther PPS 9mm for carry. You will soon forget the few hundred dollars more you spent if you get what you want.
If I had to compromise a CZ 75 Compact or G19.
tjbeck
Member
You're going to get a hundred different recommendations from a hundred different people. Everything from Hipoint to Dan Wesson...
Like bds said, handle as many as you can and if you're lucky enough to have a range that rents them near you shoot as many as you can before making your choice. Of the ones you listed I have shot all of them and they are all very good. I don't think you can make a bad decision out of those. If it is going to be strictly a range gun all I think would work well. If you want to carry it as well I would think Rick is right and you should go with one of the 'compact' models CZ 75 Compact or G19. I sometimes Carry my G19. I still think it is a little thick and heavy and normally carry a Kahr P9.
Good Luck
Like bds said, handle as many as you can and if you're lucky enough to have a range that rents them near you shoot as many as you can before making your choice. Of the ones you listed I have shot all of them and they are all very good. I don't think you can make a bad decision out of those. If it is going to be strictly a range gun all I think would work well. If you want to carry it as well I would think Rick is right and you should go with one of the 'compact' models CZ 75 Compact or G19. I sometimes Carry my G19. I still think it is a little thick and heavy and normally carry a Kahr P9.
Good Luck
Tomac
Member
As already mentioned above, try as many as you can first before making a decision.
With that being said, also consider the S&W M&P9c. Interchangeable backstraps make for a semi-customizeable grip, 12rd mag (flat base or pinky extension), removeable thumb safety if desired and APEX parts for a superb trigger if you don't like the factory trigger. I carry mine CCW and shoot it better than any other pistol I've owned.
HTH...
Tomac
With that being said, also consider the S&W M&P9c. Interchangeable backstraps make for a semi-customizeable grip, 12rd mag (flat base or pinky extension), removeable thumb safety if desired and APEX parts for a superb trigger if you don't like the factory trigger. I carry mine CCW and shoot it better than any other pistol I've owned.
HTH...
Tomac
Thompsoncustom
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For a great trigger and accuracy I would pick the CZ 75 SA. I have done a lot of trigger work to my CZ 75b and love the fell and break of it, out of the box it wasn't the best but that seems to be more of a DA/SA thing with CZ then the SA only guns. There are a lot of products out there to tune the trigger pull to your liking and I see no reason that you couldn't have an outstanding 1911 like trigger and great accuracy.
3KillerBs
Member
A 92 is my dream range gun. It fits my hand like it was born there and is the easiest to run of any gun I've ever picked up/fired (I like the safety placement on the Taurus better than the one on the Beretta). Alas, a high-capacity range-only gun is far, far down our budget priority list.
It is entirely possible that when you pick one up it will prove to be the worst-fitting gun you've ever handled. There's just no knowing until you handle it.
92's are also so big that I can't imagine concealing one under anything short of a hoop skirt or a parka. LOL
It is entirely possible that when you pick one up it will prove to be the worst-fitting gun you've ever handled. There's just no knowing until you handle it.
92's are also so big that I can't imagine concealing one under anything short of a hoop skirt or a parka. LOL
longhair75
Member
I love my Beretta M9. The fit and finish of this handgun is excellent. The ergonomics are, at least for my hand. perfect. I was amazed by it's out of the box accuracy.
The only real drawback seems to be the fact that the 1911 fans can never forgive Beretta for replacing the 1911 for military use.
The only real drawback seems to be the fact that the 1911 fans can never forgive Beretta for replacing the 1911 for military use.
SpentCasing
Member
Lets see, out of what you have listed here is my experiences.
Beretta 92- One of ,if not, my favorite 9mm combat pistols. Very comfortable, accurate, and a very decent trigger can be had for about $5 and 20min of honest work with some sandpaper.
Sig226- Have much experience with 40cal version as well as 9mm E2 model. My Beretta trigger is lighter and smoother but the half-cock reset on Sigs are nice. My preference is with the E2 models but I also feel Sigs are way overpriced.
Glock- This weekend I purchased a Gen 4 19 for CCW use. Perfect gun for that role IMO. Size, weight, and reliability are perfect. Trigger is enjoyable and Medium backstrap really makes the gun fit me well. The grip angle still needs some getting used to.
CZ- Another great nine. For me, out of the choices, I have the least experience with them
compared to the others. I have shot them before and remember them being comfortable but VERY accurate.
Out of your choices I would recommend the Beretta. Its my favorite shooter for range/IDPA/ going out with noobs as well as price is certainly the most reasonable. Slide feels like 2 well oiled pices of glass sliding against each other. All others feels clunky in comparison. It just feels and shoots quality. YMMV.
Beretta 92- One of ,if not, my favorite 9mm combat pistols. Very comfortable, accurate, and a very decent trigger can be had for about $5 and 20min of honest work with some sandpaper.
Sig226- Have much experience with 40cal version as well as 9mm E2 model. My Beretta trigger is lighter and smoother but the half-cock reset on Sigs are nice. My preference is with the E2 models but I also feel Sigs are way overpriced.
Glock- This weekend I purchased a Gen 4 19 for CCW use. Perfect gun for that role IMO. Size, weight, and reliability are perfect. Trigger is enjoyable and Medium backstrap really makes the gun fit me well. The grip angle still needs some getting used to.
CZ- Another great nine. For me, out of the choices, I have the least experience with them
compared to the others. I have shot them before and remember them being comfortable but VERY accurate.
Out of your choices I would recommend the Beretta. Its my favorite shooter for range/IDPA/ going out with noobs as well as price is certainly the most reasonable. Slide feels like 2 well oiled pices of glass sliding against each other. All others feels clunky in comparison. It just feels and shoots quality. YMMV.
Furncliff
Member
CZ75b. When ever I can, I let strangers shoot mine. The most common comment is that it feels god in the hand. I agree, It's accurate and reliable as well. I have other 9's but the CZ has spoiled me. Most likely the trigger on a new one will need some work, but it's worth it.
The_Armed_Therapist
Member
This may have been mentioned already, but I don't have the time to read all the posts.
If you like Sig, you don't have to spend $800. You can get the SP2022 for well under $500. I know a place where you can get one for about $415 OTD. They are very nice!
If you like Sig, you don't have to spend $800. You can get the SP2022 for well under $500. I know a place where you can get one for about $415 OTD. They are very nice!
helitack32f1
Member
A Godly 9mm in the hand? Seriously though, with all the talk of CZ in this thread, i'm gonna have to check them out a bit more seriously.
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buckhorn_cortez
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Range use / carry (concealment ability) are nearly diametrically opposed requirements. If you go for a short barreled gun for carry, then that reduces the functionality at the range. Likewise, the longer barrel of a true range gun makes it difficult to carry and conceal.
There are two range 9mm's that are standouts above the rest: from the CZ Custom Shop - CZ 75 Shadow, or Target; and from Springfield Armory - the XDm 5.25 Comp Series. Both guns are built for range use, and the triggers can be readily tuned for competition. For carry, neither would be easy to conceal as they're big and heavy.
Range + carry? Hmmmm....well, you certainly can shoot any carry gun at the range, and as long as you don't care about being competitive with other people/guns that are built for range use, you should be happy.
How do you plan on carrying the gun? My wife has an FNX-9 and, like any gun with a 4-inch barrel, it is servicable and even semi-competitive at the range, but it would be difficult to conceal mostly because of the double-stack width of the receiver coupled with hand grip length that gives 17 round capacity. That's the problem you're going to have with any 9mm with a full size grip.
In a near 4-inch barrel gun, the Glock 19, Springfield XDm Compact, CZ-75 Compact, CZ-P01, or the S&W M&P Compact would allow for carry/concealment and would work fairly well at the range.
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sigarms228
Member
I agree with this. I have a SP2022 in 9MM and has been a flawless operating gun and extremely accurate.
There are also CPO, factory Certified Pre Owned, and a lot of great condition used SIGs on the market because they are so extremely popular. I have 2 fabulous P226s and I paid less than $500 for each that were as new inside and out when I purchased each. SIGS are also easy to work on and have a wide availablility of parts.
All will be more accurate than their shooter. It's all about how the gun feels in your hand. Comfortable gun = better results. CZs fit me like a glove. I use both a stock CZ SP-01 and CZ 75B in Action Pistol shooting and love them. Some complain about the trigger, but it smoothes out after a couple hundred rounds.
If you get the 75B, buy the CZ factory rubber grips. They are $25 at czcustom.com . They are superb. I actually recommend getting the SP-01. It's a little more than the 75B, but you get a rail, night sights, rubber grips, and a full dust cover. The full dust cover adds weight up front, reducing muzzle flip to negligible levels. Follow up shots are the fastest that I've ever experienced with a service caliber pistol. Stick with the safety version of any CZ model, as the triggers are better than the decocker versions. They have less creep.
If you get the 75B, buy the CZ factory rubber grips. They are $25 at czcustom.com . They are superb. I actually recommend getting the SP-01. It's a little more than the 75B, but you get a rail, night sights, rubber grips, and a full dust cover. The full dust cover adds weight up front, reducing muzzle flip to negligible levels. Follow up shots are the fastest that I've ever experienced with a service caliber pistol. Stick with the safety version of any CZ model, as the triggers are better than the decocker versions. They have less creep.
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greyling22
Member
I don't know about you guys, but I've never felt a trigger on a striker or double action gun I thought were very good for target or range guns. Good trigger for me starts and stops at single action guns, and in that category, you've got:
*revolvers
* there were a few single action beretta 92's I believe.
*9mm 1911's (not all that terribly comfortable in my hands)
*hi-power (neds a lot of work out of the box, but can be quite nice)
*some cz75 models (tac sport, SA target if you have the money, 75sa or witness elite match if you're on a budget)
*an expensive sig (I forget the model #) that I don't know much about.
good range guns do not generally make good concealed carry guns. if you want one of those, a baby eagle semi-compact or a glock 19 sized striker gun is a decent compromise, but like any good compromise, it doesn't do anything real well. or you can just buy a ketec for carry. around $250.
and yes, I know some people like and shoot striker and sa/da guns very well, good for ya'll, but the long takeup and mushy creep on a lot of them just turn me off.
*revolvers
* there were a few single action beretta 92's I believe.
*9mm 1911's (not all that terribly comfortable in my hands)
*hi-power (neds a lot of work out of the box, but can be quite nice)
*some cz75 models (tac sport, SA target if you have the money, 75sa or witness elite match if you're on a budget)
*an expensive sig (I forget the model #) that I don't know much about.
good range guns do not generally make good concealed carry guns. if you want one of those, a baby eagle semi-compact or a glock 19 sized striker gun is a decent compromise, but like any good compromise, it doesn't do anything real well. or you can just buy a ketec for carry. around $250.
and yes, I know some people like and shoot striker and sa/da guns very well, good for ya'll, but the long takeup and mushy creep on a lot of them just turn me off.
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