Over & Under Shot Guns & Reloading

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djwalker60

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Greetings:

This is a two part thread / Question... Getting more into Trap and looking to get an over and under shot gun. I can see there is a lot of them, but I do have a budget of under $1,400.00 So for this money, any recommendations?

Also, I do reload for my 9mm, .223 and 45 ACP.. But now I am looking at getting into reloading for my 12guage. Where to find the best "recipes" for this? Meaning:

  • What Powder to use?
  • What shot to use and how much per load?
  • Hulls ?
  • Primers?

Did I leave anything out? We'll that's it in a nut shell.. Any good advice would greatly be appreciated.

Thanks
Dan in Seattle
 
You'll need a different machine to reload shotgun shells. MEC makes a Jr. single stage that you can find used for about $75.00

Both Alliant and Hodgdon have recipes for target loads.

Follow them for what primers and wads to use with which hulls

Components are not always interchangeable and there are clone wads from other makers that can be used

For trap, a light 7/8 or 1oz load is all you need to break targets, even at the furthest distances - shooting light loads will save your shoulder over the length of a shoot and will be cheaper to reload than 1-1/8oz loads

As for guns - find a nice used target gun - look at your local club bulletin board - there is always someone stopping shooting or upgrading. You really do not want the field version of a gun as they are typically 1 pound or more lighter. In target shooting weight is your friend

Go to your club, explain what you are attempting to do and borrow/rent as many guns as you can. Most shooters will let you try their gun for some shots or even a round.

Your budget will dictate something in the Browning, Beretta, SKB line used - typically, if the Browning fits, the Beretta will not - not better or worse, just different - FIT is critical
 
I would look for a used Browning BT-99, about the most reasonably priced dedicated trap gun out there.
As far as reloading, I would start with a Mec 600jr single stage. They aren't too expensive new, and there are lots of used ones for sale from guys who have moved up to a progressive. To be honest though, for the casual trap shooter you aren't going to save a lot of money reloading 12ga. The cheap promo loads from Federal, Remington, Rio, etc will do just fine for 16yd trap.
 
Keep in mind that reloading for shotguns is quite different than reloading for centerfire pistol and rifle cartridges. You need a manual from a reliable source and need to follow it to the letter. With shotgun reloading substituting primers, wads, powder, shot, and hulls is a no no. You must use the specific components listed in the manuals, much like a cookbook, or risk some highly undesirable consequences.
 
Thank You for the reply's. I do not shoot that much, I figure about less than 400 rounds per month on a good month. Sometimes less, sometimes more. So as I did research before I started to reload for my pistols. I needed to see if it was worth the money. Also know others who I load for too. But when it comes to the shotgun, again my brother shoots too. I also realize that it is not always about saving for reloading. But for the statisfaction of reloading, the hobby and knowing that you are reloading good loads.

I've been done reading about the MEC series of loaders and so far I like the SizeMaster.. I have a Hornady LNL Progressive for my pistol and rifle, but it was not cheap and not looking to spend that much on reloading equipment for the shotgun. We'll many things to think about.. Thank you again for the responses.

Dan
 
The issue with the wally world promo loads is that they are 1-1/8 oz loads - and after a while they begin to beat you to death. By reloading, and when you decide on a recipe, buying components in bulk, you can reload a box for about $3.50 per box - compared to the promo loads at 5.50 AND you get to tailor a load to your gun.

Certain substitutions are acceptable in shotgun reloading - example - ALL Remington hulls and Winchester AA hulls can use the same data. Claybuster, Downrange and others make "clone wads of the Winchester and Remington ones - they use the exact recipe but cost about half. Winchester 209, Remington 209, Fiocchi 616, NobelSport 209 primers can be used interchangeably

There are two basic style of hulls - tapered and straight-walled Federal and the Euro ones are straight-walled, Remington and Winchester are the tapered.

While the Lyman shotgun manual is a good one, the latest recipes will be found on the Hodgdon and Alliant websites.

For basic 16 yard trap you will want a load no faster than 1200 fps (rules say so), shot no larger than 7-1/2 (although the smaller 8s work really well) and no shot charge greater than 1-1/8 oz, but 1 oz and even 7/8 do as good a job with less cost and less recoil
'
Clay targets, whether trap, skeet, 5-stand, sporting or FITASC, are a lot of fun. You will soon find that buying a good gun in the beginning, no matter how expensive, will have its cost soon eclipsed by the cost of ammo and targets
 
I've been looking at the Browning Citoria line... Seems under my $1400 budget.. Or there around. I am also going to get the carlson 12 gauge PORTED Sporting Clays Choke Tubes. Tomorrow is shopping day, not a lot of shopping choices in the Seattle Area. I'll be going to cabela's as they seem to have the biggest choice.

Thanks Again
Dan
 
>>I would look for a used Browning BT-99<<

The problem here is being limited to a single shot, and when he realizes that sporting clays is more fun than trap he'll be in a pickle. :p Plus, most of the used BT-99s I've seen out there have a million rounds through them.
 
I use a Browning Citori XT Trap Special. Good gun for Trap, but it is nowhere near $1400 new. You might find one used for $1400, but I have not.

BT-99 is a good Trap gun for Singles and Handicap, but lacks a second barrel for Doubles.

One of the common auto-loading or pump guns can be made useful for Trap by adding a replacement barrel. It should be 28-32 inches, have a raised rib with a "mid bead", and ideally have screw in chokes. (modified, improved modified, and full). Add a cheek pad to raise your eye to the rib. (Trap guns should pattern at least 60% over point of aim, since you are shooting a rising target.)

Any pump or auto needs a shell catcher to avoid beaning the adjacent shooter with hulls.

If you need cheap factory loads for Trap, consider the Remington Gun Club 1oz 2-3/4 dram loads, or the Winchester Super Target 1oz loads. Both can be found as low as ~$6.00 ~$6.50 for a box of 25. (#7-1/2 or #8 shot)

Mec Grabber is a good progressive shotshell loader.
 
Citori Trap will have a different stock, higher comp, longer, compared to a field or sporting clays gun. Trap guns are to be mounted/brought to the shoulder before calling for the bird.
 
I am also going to get the carlson 12 gauge PORTED Sporting Clays Choke Tubes.
Click to expand...
If you're on a tight budget I'd skip the Carlson ported chokes. Brownings come with decent chokes and porting whether on the barrel or choke doesn't do all that much other than make them harder to clean. Put the money into your gun first.

Are you absolutely set on an o/u? In your price category I'd suggest a Beretta 391 Parallel Target. Good for trap and all the other games if you decide to try something new. Trap is a "gateway game" IMO. Sporting clays is the true addiction.:)
 
when he realizes that sporting clays is more fun than trap
Click to expand...
Trap is a "gateway game" IMO. Sporting clays is the true addiction.
Click to expand...

Well....opinions. No doubt that SCs is a fun game.....but Trap shooting......Trap is sublime.

Pete
 
No doubt that SCs is a fun game.....but Trap shooting......Trap is sublime.
Click to expand...

"sublime" is PC for "boring"................ ;)....:D

trap is about not missing any, same as skeet...........sporting is about trying to hit as many as you can - a slight, but significant difference
 
The true trap gun looks something like this.

http://www.herosarms.com/trap_guns.htm

The serious ones get the adjustable cheek piece and and adjustable butt plate. The trap stock needs to be straight rather than a dropped heel as in a field gun. The adjustable stock lets you fit the gun to you. Matters if you are left handed or right handed. Oneounceload can explain that.

The field gun looks like this.

http://www.remington.com/products/archived/shotguns/over-and-under/premier-competition-sts.aspx

You had better read up on the "trap gun" as opposed to the others. I did a lot of research before i bought my trap combo and an O/U.

And take heed to the relaoding advice.
 
Sporting clays when I can't find a FITASC field for clay targets; otherwise, give me covey after covey of wild quail and a dog with a good nose and a mild temperament!...... ;)
 
Quite a number of years ago, we had about eight individual coveys of "in the wild" quail. If we wanted to travel a little more to some farmlands, we were guaranteed a number of coveys. We would thin ours a little and wait until the next year.
I raised a shorthair pointer (Sadie) and, later, and English Pointer.

Yes, I agree. Watching the dog cast and obey you hand signals; priceless. The downing of the quail was a little ani-climatic except for "DEAD BIRD, DEAD BIRD".

I used an 1148 with an improved cylinder. Still have it. I can remember getting three on a rise. If John Donegan is till alive he can prove it.

Memories.
 
We'll I am sure that I will hear from some nay-Sayers. But........ I bought a Ruger Red Label Over and Undershot gun. Have not shot it yet, but will over this coming weekend. I did a lot of reading and with the budget I had, it was at the top of it. Yes it was highly suggested to get the Citoria, but price point and availability of used one's was just not there. I looked at the Winchester model 101 field Over and Under, but still didn't like that one either. So, in the end it was the Ruger Red Label.

look here if you are curious. http://www.ruger.com/products/redLabel12Gauge/index.html.

Dan
 
If your Ruger works for you, great!. I had one of theirs in 28 gauge - let's just say it had less than stellar performance and eventually went away. Ruger's shotgun quality has been like Huglu's though - ones that are good are decent, and the ones that aren't, are crap. If it is a bad one, Ruger will continuously try to fix for free, that's a nice thing
 
I Do hope it is a good one. Yes, it would have been nice to get the Browning Citori But..... It is what it is... So time will tell.. :)
 
I am shooting a SKB O/U with 1oz loads.

Remingon gun club or Nitro 27 hulls, Win 209 primers, Red Dot powder and Claybuster wads work well for me. Costs me less than $4.00 to load compared to $5.25 or more and cheaper if I use reclaimed shot.
 
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