+P .45 Colt... what's the benefit?

[Pokajabba]

I can see the result of added velocity when fired from a rifle, but from a revolver with a 4 or 5 inch barrel, I'm left wondering if it's any better than standard pressure .45 Colt. Does hot, "Ruger only" .45 Colt perform better than standard pressure for a variety of applications such as target shooting, hunting, and self defense?

 

[ljnowell]

Obviously it does. The increased pressure equals increased velocity.


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[BobWright]

I'm not even aware of the "+P .45 Colt" pressure range, if in fact there are any set standards.

But yes, in a stout revolver such as the Ruger Blackhawk, high performance ammunition is practical. The factory standard .45 Colt drives a 250 ~ 255 grain bullet at 870 f.p.s. Not a bad load up close, but lacking as the range increases.

With judicious handloading, velocities in the neighborhood of 1400 fps can be obtained. And some have pushed 300 ~350 grain bullets to around 1300 fps. I developed a load years ago using 350 gr. RNFP bullets (originally for the .45-70) to just over 1200 f.p.s. with extremely good accuracy.

The whole point in high performance is not to increase "killing power" but to insure that "killing power" is delivered downrange. And to do this while getting the bullet to the target in the shortest possible time.

Bob Wright

 

[45 Dragoon]

Of course!
That's why .44 mags, .357 mags, .454 Casull etc exist!!

.45C "Ruger only" is for bragging rights ! LOL!! (And, rightly so!!!)


Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

I'm not even aware of the "+P .45 Colt" pressure range, if in fact there are any set standards.

Howdy

Unlike 38 Special, which has official +P specifications listed with the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers Institute (SAAMI), there are no official SAAMI +P specifications for 45 Colt. The pressure will be whatever each manufacturer decides.

There are also no official specifications for so called Ruger Only loads.

And contrary to popular belief, not all the ammunition manufactured by Buffalo Bore exceeds standard SAAMI Max pressure specifications. One has to read the specifics of each product to determine whether it can or cannot be fired in standard firearms.

Getting back to the original question, the higher pressure stuff is designed for hunting and self defense, not target shooting.

 

[DPris]

Carefully developed hot .45 Colt loads can & do exceed .44 Magnum power levels, through a handgun.
That should tell you something.
Denis

 

[Duvel]

Because it makes bigger, tougher skinned, more far away, things... Deader.

I've got a New Vaquero, and while it's rated at Tier 2, I keep my loadings within the original spec. That said, I've been on the lookout for a used Blackhawk

 

[Pokajabba]

Yeah, it tells me that it's better than .44 Magnum, which makes sense seeing it's a larger bullet.

I know there's no official SAAMI spec for "+P .45 Colt" but I wanted to make the title shorter and people know that I'm talking about HOT .45 Colt.

I also know that the velocity, energy, and range increases with hot .45 Colt, I'm just trying to determine it's worth getting into or if I'd rather get a revolver that can only handle standard pressure, basically an SAA clone.

I am interested in getting a revolver that's .45 ACP capable and two that I'm mulling over are the Ruger Blackhawk and Redhawk, both obviously capable of the Ruger only loads. I also like the versatility of being able to handle pretty much any .45 Colt or +P .45 ACP thrown into it.

 

[Archie]

The standard pressure loads for .45 Colt seem to be suited for the design purpose of the original revolver: rendering a human adversary incapable of further hostile activity. (At least for the immediate future.)

I've got a .44 Magnum handgun with which to hunt deer or something similar. I see no point to purchase another revolver to do the same.

I have a .45 Colt revolver. It is one of the Italian made clones of the Colt SAA and as such, will probably not successfully withstand 'heavy' or +p loads.

Therefore, I see no reason to attempt it. Nor would I recommend it to anyone who already has a .44 Magnum revolver OR a standard pressure .45 Colt.

 

[Slamfire]

Does hot, "Ruger only" .45 Colt perform better than standard pressure for a variety of applications such as target shooting, hunting, and self defense?

Not for target shooting. The more blast and recoil, the sooner I start to flinch. Target shooters try to find the best combination of low recoil, low muzzle blast, and excellent accuracy.

Hunting, well, I am not exponent of using a handgun to kill animals if a rifle is available. Rifles are more powerful, and more importantly, more likely to place the bullet where you want. I have been shooting Small Bore prone for years now and just picked up Bullseye Pistol. At fifty yards, when things are well, I can keep all my shots inside a dime at 50 yards with a rifle.









With a handgun, not nearly as tight groups. My Bullseye pistol goals are to firstly keep all rounds on the 50 yard repair center, never mind in the black. I have not done that to date. In fact, I still miss the 50 yard target completely. Just last week went out and practiced, missed the 50 yard target a bunch of times.

So, when you are dealing with the pain and suffering of an animal, I consider it better practice to place your shot as best you can, and that is with a rifle.

In terms of people, people are not that tough from what I have read. The standard 45 LC was considered an excellent self defense round from the day it was made. I consider pistols spitting distance weapons anyway. I used to shoot IPSC, tried a 44 Mag for the fun of it, recovery was slow. At close distance, I want to get back on target as fast as possible. Power and speed are a tradeoff and I think the standard 45 LC is a well balanced round for self defense.

 

[DPris]

Your "Location" descriptor's useless in telling anybody where you are, don't even know if you're in the US.

Given that, hard to address your decision about whether or not you want to stay with standard .45 Colt loads or go hotter.

What's your intended use?
Self-defense?
Against what, people or animals?

Hunting?
Targets?

You won't want hot .45s for much target use, neither fun nor pleasant for most people.
The ability to use both .45 rounds, long & short, will be better realized in a Blackhawk with TWO cylinders. More accurate with ACP, using a dedicated ACP cylinder.

The convertible Red has its deficiencies in variable ACP accuracy through one dual-caliber cylinder.

The hot .45 Colt is only "better" than a .44 Mag if you need more steam than a .44 Mag can typically give.
The downside there is you either reload your own or buy expensive specialty ammunition.
That stuff can literally be painful to shoot, at its most extreme power levels, and in the convertible Red with round gripframe.
It is NOT target or range ammunition.

Again- what do you want the gun to do?
Denis

 

[Pokajabba]

Denis, I'm looking for it to be versatile. Good for both defense against man and beast, be an adequate hunting revolver out to 25-35 yards without a scope, be fun to shoot for plinking, and shoot .45 ACP as well as possible.

I have no doubts that you're correct on the Blackhawk being able to shoot ACP better than the Redhawk as it uses a sole cylinder meant only for .45 ACP. Also, the hot .45 Colt doesn't need to be "better" than .44 Magnum, just as good as .44 Mag.

But all of that comes down to whether or not hot .45 Colt is what I want. If I have no reason or desire to use hot .45 Colt, then I might as well just go for a .45 ACP only revolver.

 

[the Black Spot]

Self defense against man is defenitely not in the +p category! You dont want a pass through to injure innocent by stander.
What you describe for hunting(deer size game) out to 30 yds could be accomplished with a 250 gr bullet going 700-750 fps. Hollow point version would work for self defense at those velocities as well.
My carry arm is a 4.75 inch saa 45 colt oaded with 250 gr backed by 35 gr of blackpowder. I dont feel under gunned going by my testing shooting into wet paper

 

[eldon519]

For .45 Colt, I shoot almost exclusively Ruger loads with H110/W296 or WC297. Honestly I just like it and think it's fun. All I do is slowfire target, usually with a Ruger Bisley. I don't find it objectionable. Usually do around 150rds in a range visit. I like the added challenge and mental games of dealing with the blast and recoil, and I like that since I am proficient with the gun and loads at these levels, I could responsibly hunt with it. At least for me, my findings through the years have been that practicing marksmanship with small calibers like a .22 or even 9mm didn't really translate to accuracy with bigger calibers. Unless I was shooting the bigger calibers alongside the smaller ones, I'd usually just start flinching when I went back from the smaller rounds to the bigger ones. I also find smaller round target practice kind of boring.

But to answer the question more directly, yes, it does increase the lethality of the round, mainly for hunting bigger animals.

 

[MaxP]

I shoot .45 Colt +P loads almost exclusively through my .454 Bisley. Much warmer than the 14,000 psi Colt loads, but not nearly as obnoxious (and loud!) as typical .454 Casull loads. I've shot some pretty big game with +P .45 loads and they work exceedingly well.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

In the United States it seems shooters are obsessed with high velocities. They have been brainwashed they need excessive velocities to expand HP or they will be killed by a bad guy. Well, when a bullet starts out at .452" that's fairly big to start.

The +P designation is a marketing gimmic to make money. (IMO of course)

 

[CraigC]

The additional pressure allowed in "Ruger only" loads does not only allow greater velocity. It allows far greater bullet weights and that is where the .45 (and all other magnum revolver cartridges) excels. Yes, standard pressure loads are potent but they are limited. A 270-280gr bullet is about all you can get to a meaningful velocity. That velocity does serve a purpose. For a 1200-1300fps load is much easier to stretch to 100yds than a 900fps load.

The .45Colt loaded to 32,000psi is equal to the .44Mag, it does not exceed its potential. Both cartridges can utilize the same weight bullets, right up to the maximum practical weight of 350-360gr. The .44 may enjoy a slight but irrelevant velocity advantage.

The .45 is not universally "bigger" than the .44. The overall bullet diameter is meaningless. The operative dimension is the meplat diameter, as that is what creates the wound channel. As such, sometimes it's bigger, sometimes it isn't.

In my penetration testing, the .44 was decidedly the better penetrator.

So, when you are dealing with the pain and suffering of an animal, I consider it better practice to place your shot as best you can, and that is with a rifle.

What a man hunts with is his own choice but the notion that a properly loaded big bore revolver is inadequate for big game is patently false. Perhaps your own handgun skill is not up to the task but do not judge others by your own shortcomings.

 

[MaxP]

The +P designation is a marketing gimmic to make money. (IMO of course)

I would make this argument perhaps about the .460 Smith & Wesson or the .454 Casull, but +P .45 Colt loads aren't typically loaded that hot. As Craig mentioned, they allow for heavy bullets to be pushed at moderate velocities. I prefer +P .45s to the .454 Casull, personally.

So, when you are dealing with the pain and suffering of an animal, I consider it better practice to place your shot as best you can, and that is with a rifle.

I disagree with this statement. The handgun hunter, like any hunter, needs to practice to be proficient with his/her chosen firearm -- irrespective of that firearm having a shoulder stock or not. There are plenty of rifle hunters who don't place their shots with much accuracy, but all of the handgun hunters I know take their craft pretty seriously and recognize that it is a more difficult discipline.

 

[DPris]

You don't need or want hot .45 Colt loads for defense against people.
Overpowered, unnecessary, the standard .45 Colt stuff with a good bullet more than does the job.

I deliberately said the hot .45 is not pleasant for MOST people, because I knew somebody'd jump on & say they do it all the time & love it.
There are also people who enjoy hitting themselves in the head with a hammer, but they don't constitute the majority.

I've worked with hot .45s through Rugers, both single & double action, in both Red & Black, and I've worked with .460 & .454 Casull, so I do have a frame of reference.
I did not enjoy the Mammoth-Killers in .45 Colt through the round-butt Red.
Even with a bigger Hogue grip installed.

I'm not knocking the Pain Junkies (term used affectionately & with the utmost respect ), but if you don't NEED the extra power & expense to put a BIG animal down, either hunting or defensively, you probably don't want the hot .45.

Standard .45 will do against a deer-sized critter out to 35 yards just as well, the key there isn't the "magnum" .45, it's the ability of the GUN & user to deliver.
The hot .45 stuff isn't necessarily any more accurate at that distance & standard has all the power you'd need, again with an appropriate bullet.

Denis

 

[MaxP]

Denis, the last animal I killed with a .45 Colt weighed 2,000-lbs.

I don't use my .45 Colts for personal defense and agree even in it's original load levels it is more than adequate. I do, however, use my various .45 Colts for big-game hunting, and this is where I like the +P loadings. They have served me well!

 

[farm23]

For 20+ years I have only hunted with a hand gun and for most of the time with either a 45 or 454. The 45 loads are what would be considered 45+P and they work great for almost anything with 4 legs but they are too much for self defense. The over penetration could be a problem and the standard 45 load would get the job done. I do not target shoot but if I did I would not want to shoot a steady diet of 45+P.

 

[DPris]

Max,
Considering one of the factors involved in original Cavalry acceptance of the .45 Colt was an ability to bring a horse down, I'm very much aware that it can go far bigger than a deer.

I'm dealing with the parameters that Poka's mentioning, which are sketchy.
Since deer is a commonly hunted species & he didn't specify what he wants to hunt, I used that for his 35-yard post.

If he wants to be more specific, responses can be adjusted.

The choice of guns is as important as the ammunition. If he wants to hit reliably & precisely at 35 yards, adjustable sights on a Ruger or Smith, for example, would have a better chance than something like a typical out-of-the-box Uberti Peacemaker clone.
Denis

 

[PapaG]

Never felt the need to make any of my 45s into magnums since I also have a pair of 44s, one Smith, one Ruger. That said, I have pepped my 45 Colt blackhawk up a little with the RCBS 45-255KT bullet over a moderate dose of 2400. Gets me around 1100 fps and has shown full penetration on deer through the front shoulders. We always manage to find at least one carcass on our property that someone failed to follow up. Usually too far gone to eat but fine for penetration testing and using for Yote bait.

 

[huntsman]

Denis, I'm looking for it to be versatile. Good for both defense against man and beast, be an adequate hunting revolver out to 25-35 yards without a scope, be fun to shoot for plinking, and shoot .45 ACP as well as possible.

I have no doubts that you're correct on the Blackhawk being able to shoot ACP better than the Redhawk as it uses a sole cylinder meant only for .45 ACP. Also, the hot .45 Colt doesn't need to be "better" than .44 Magnum, just as good as .44 Mag.

But all of that comes down to whether or not hot .45 Colt is what I want. If I have no reason or desire to use hot .45 Colt, then I might as well just go for a .45 ACP only revolver.

If one's goal is ultimate utility in a single handgun then a .45Blackhawk convertible is way to go. As to .45C+p I bought a couple of boxes of BB shot some then carried them hunting. .45acp is cheaper than .45C for plinking but for a versatile woods carry I'll load 4 .45C 225gr American Eagle and 2 BB 325gr HC.

 

[yugorpk]

45 ACP isnt much cheaper than 45 Colt if you shop around. $20 a box of 50 for HSM 200 grain. Thats about what I pay for Winchester white box at wal mart. You can pay more but theres no need to. I buy the HSM to plink and then use the starline brass for reloading.