huntsman
Member
^ I get the .45acp Fed aluminum at WW for $16.00, Herter's .45C $28.00 and American Eagle for $38.00 so for me buying local the acp is a savings.
+P .45 Colt... what's the benefit?
- Thread starter Pokajabba
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For what it's worth, some of these guns don't have to be painful to fire. Sure there are gonna be some guns that are gonna hurt no matter what like a scandium .44 mag, but a .44 mag or .45 Colt in the mid-40oz range can be fine to fire for an extended range session. A lot of it just comes down to the gun's grip, your grip, and your technique. My Bisley grips took two rounds of sanding and refinishing to get rid of sharp angles, high spots, and to smooth out the curves, but shooting it with good technique doesn't hurt at all. Similar story with a Freedom Arms 97 though it is a good bit lighter and still can get pretty fierce with the right loads. It did take time and effort to get it down though. Similarly, with a X-frame Hogue grip on my 6" S&W29 doesn't cause any pain though the rubber texture can give bare skin blisters after awhile. About the only thing that hurts on either of these anymore is when I get sloppy with my trigger press and the sharp corners of the triggers get a hold of my finger.
Anyway, just wanted to point out that it doesn't have to be a tough guy thing or an exercise in masochism. If you put in the time and practice, many could master it, but I'm sure even something as common as arthritis could make it very painful for lots of folks. It isn't for everyone but it also isn't limited to macho men.
Anyway, just wanted to point out that it doesn't have to be a tough guy thing or an exercise in masochism. If you put in the time and practice, many could master it, but I'm sure even something as common as arthritis could make it very painful for lots of folks. It isn't for everyone but it also isn't limited to macho men.
Salmoneye
Member
Bob Wright said:
First time I can remember ever questioning one of Mr Wright's posts...
You sure that bullet was for .45-70 (.458") and then you worked up a load for Colt .45 (.452")?
That's a lot of sizing...
BobWright
Member
Salmoneye said:
I bought those bullets from a local caster here in Tennessee. The bullets were 350 gr. flat nosed bullets intended for the .45-70. However that supplier offered custom sizing and they did size them to .452"
As I remember that firm was Tennessee Valley Bullets, would have to look their company up again to be sure.
Bob Wright
P.S. Just looked them up, it was indeed Tennessee Valley Bullets, at Scott's Hill, Tennessee. Jesse Clark is the owner.
P.P. S. Here is an old photo of a target fired with the 350 grainers, 20.0 grs. H4227:
I bought those bullets from a local caster here in Tennessee. The bullets were 350 gr. flat nosed bullets intended for the .45-70. However that supplier offered custom sizing and they did size them to .452"
As I remember that firm was Tennessee Valley Bullets, would have to look their company up again to be sure.
Bob Wright
P.S. Just looked them up, it was indeed Tennessee Valley Bullets, at Scott's Hill, Tennessee. Jesse Clark is the owner.
P.P. S. Here is an old photo of a target fired with the 350 grainers, 20.0 grs. H4227:
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midland man
Member
bobwright I size my bullets at .457 and wow they shoot very tight groups in my rossi 92 16in barrel using 6.8grs greendot casting my bullet outta a lyman 454190 singlecavity they don't make anymore but only in a double cavity mold now! but shoots extremely tight groups and I have lower pressure than with using either .454 or .452 in which is strange to me?? also in my heritage big bore 45c, it loves this much fatter bullet as well and with this same load it plays very well in this pistol! 
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Yep, I've bought a bunch of bullets from Tennessee Valley.
ArchAngelCD
Member.
Jessie Clark is an online friend if mine and I have spoken to him on occasion on the phone. He makes great bullets and will never cheat you. Great bullets...
I would say for target shooting and self defense, no. For hunting purposes, absolutely. I've been a HUGE .45 Colt fan for years and std. pressure might shoot a 250gr to 900 (adhering to it's VERY low PSI rating) but the heavy loads are a lot more powerful. I've shot 330gr casts to over 1300 fps in a 4 5/8" Blackhawk.
Pokajabba
member
Reading through and DPris is basically telling me "You don't need Ruger only .45 Colt"
You're probably right. Whatever benefit the hot .45 Colt stuff can do probably isn't a benefit to me.
huntsman said if I'm looking for ultimate utility and versatility, then the .45 Convertible Blackhawk is the way to go.
I don't doubt that the Blackhawk is extremely adaptable and a strong gun, but the basis of my question is if hot .45 Colt has a benefit and trying to determine if it has a benefit for what I'm looking for. I think Denis is right and that standard pressure is all I need. Now the question comes to what .45 revolver should I look at that shoots .45 ACP. There are a couple options out there for a .45 ACP revolver, but the convertible Blackhawk's seem to be the best value all things considered.
You're probably right. Whatever benefit the hot .45 Colt stuff can do probably isn't a benefit to me.
huntsman said if I'm looking for ultimate utility and versatility, then the .45 Convertible Blackhawk is the way to go.
I don't doubt that the Blackhawk is extremely adaptable and a strong gun, but the basis of my question is if hot .45 Colt has a benefit and trying to determine if it has a benefit for what I'm looking for. I think Denis is right and that standard pressure is all I need. Now the question comes to what .45 revolver should I look at that shoots .45 ACP. There are a couple options out there for a .45 ACP revolver, but the convertible Blackhawk's seem to be the best value all things considered.
I'm just basing my commentary on the limited info you've given.
You still have not said WHAT you want to hunt with a .45 Colt.
If deer, you don't need hot.
If polar bear, you do.
Otherwise, if you're now talking about ONLY ACP, you have several choices.
The most practical in either DA or SA would have adjustable sights to mate load to gun & distance.
The Blackhawk is an excellent candidate.
Any of S&W's ACP DAs with at least a 4-inch barrel.
Colt's New Frontier.
In the Ruger convertible Red, ACP is a secondary caliber, not a primary.
Accuracy can be highly variable between loads.
With the right one, it can shoot decently, but as a hunting proposition it's heavier than you need to lug around for deer & underpowered (for the most part) for moose.
For defense against humans, perfectly adequate.
You still need to clearly define for yourself WHAT you want the gun to do for you.
Those are the top tier options.
You'd need to decide how much you want to spend & whether new or used.
And also keep in mind that if using a dual-cylindered Blackhawk, switching cylinders/calibers will almost certainly shoot to a different point of impact, necessitating a rear sight change of setting.
Denis
You still have not said WHAT you want to hunt with a .45 Colt.
If deer, you don't need hot.
If polar bear, you do.
Otherwise, if you're now talking about ONLY ACP, you have several choices.
The most practical in either DA or SA would have adjustable sights to mate load to gun & distance.
The Blackhawk is an excellent candidate.
Any of S&W's ACP DAs with at least a 4-inch barrel.
Colt's New Frontier.
In the Ruger convertible Red, ACP is a secondary caliber, not a primary.
Accuracy can be highly variable between loads.
With the right one, it can shoot decently, but as a hunting proposition it's heavier than you need to lug around for deer & underpowered (for the most part) for moose.
For defense against humans, perfectly adequate.
You still need to clearly define for yourself WHAT you want the gun to do for you.
Those are the top tier options.
You'd need to decide how much you want to spend & whether new or used.
And also keep in mind that if using a dual-cylindered Blackhawk, switching cylinders/calibers will almost certainly shoot to a different point of impact, necessitating a rear sight change of setting.
Denis
Pokajabba
member
Yeah, it would just be deer for hunting. Bear would be for defense, NOT hunting.
The .45 ACP is basically the 800 lb gorilla here; I would like a handgun that shoots .45 ACP, but I don't care for .45 in a semi auto pistol, I think it's great for a revolver. Thus, I'd like the .45 ACP to shoot really well and not have it's performance be diminished because it's really just added on as an afterthought.
However, If I can have a .45 Colt to go with the .45 ACP, great. If it can be able to shoot the hot stuff, even though I may never use it, that's nice to have.
From what you've said and some others have, it would seem the Blackhawk is the way to go and I don't care about the different POI's. I expect that with any gun that has a dual role be it a Blackhawk, a .22LR/.22 Mag revolver, a converted Glock, etc. That's part of the joy of shooting is finding out how much a difference the POI's are.
The .45 ACP is basically the 800 lb gorilla here; I would like a handgun that shoots .45 ACP, but I don't care for .45 in a semi auto pistol, I think it's great for a revolver. Thus, I'd like the .45 ACP to shoot really well and not have it's performance be diminished because it's really just added on as an afterthought.
However, If I can have a .45 Colt to go with the .45 ACP, great. If it can be able to shoot the hot stuff, even though I may never use it, that's nice to have.
From what you've said and some others have, it would seem the Blackhawk is the way to go and I don't care about the different POI's. I expect that with any gun that has a dual role be it a Blackhawk, a .22LR/.22 Mag revolver, a converted Glock, etc. That's part of the joy of shooting is finding out how much a difference the POI's are.
I'd get a Blackhawk or Bisley convertible if you want to shoot .45ACP. They include a second cylinder specifically for ACP. The Redhawk has you shooting ACP out of a .45 Colt cylinder which is not ideal since the Colt chamber is close to 3/8" longer.
If you think you might like to dabble in the hot stuff, the Bisley grip is more comfortable for many people with heavy recoiling loads. Here is a distributer exclusive that is a Bisley convertible.
http://www.ruger.com/products/newModelBlackhawkConvertible/specSheets/0472.html
If you think you might like to dabble in the hot stuff, the Bisley grip is more comfortable for many people with heavy recoiling loads. Here is a distributer exclusive that is a Bisley convertible.
http://www.ruger.com/products/newModelBlackhawkConvertible/specSheets/0472.html
Salmoneye
Member
Thanks, Mr Wright...
As always, your posts are informative, and educational...
As always, your posts are informative, and educational...
The Blackhawk convertible would be a great choice. If you will hunt deer and simultaneously use the gun for bear defense, you will want to load it hotter than the 14,000 psi SAAMI maximum. Again, not advocating turning your .45 Colt into a .454 Casull, but you can run it a bit warmer and it still won't be unpleasant to shoot.
huntsman
Member
Well there's always .45acp+p
BB sells a 255gr HC, just another option.For me the Blackhawk was the correct answer because it got me into a cartridge that would match the .44mag I had to sell. For you it might not be, me I like options and I don't see the need to have multiple guns when one will do and I can spend that saved money on ammo.
midland man
Member
kinda like me buyin this heritage 22lr/22mag convertible I really like it!
dh1633pm
Contributing Member
This is a good debate. I have two rifles in 45 LC. I load them both about in the middle between hot and old. I see no problem with both opinions. If you want, and you take care that the firearm your holding can handle it without unnecessarily parting your hair, then why not.
It is more powerful than .45ACP. Corbon used to load JHPs with higher velocity.
Pokajabba
member
Since it looks like the Blackhawk is going to be the choice, which is a better choice: the 4-5/8" or 5.5" barrel?
The longer sight radius could help slightly in accuracy, the longer barrel could help slightly in recoil/muzzle rise, the longer barrel could help slightly in velocity.
Emphasize SLIGHTLY in all three areas.
There is no "better" choice, it depends entirely on you.
Denis
Emphasize SLIGHTLY in all three areas.
There is no "better" choice, it depends entirely on you.
Denis
rswartsell
Member
In younger days I hunted white tail and a very few feral hogs with a handgun and tried to mate with a lever action of the same caliber. Because I did not want to appear foolish, or in any way inferior I would argue the effectiveness of my favorite cartridge (.357 mag.) for this purpose.
In truth all of the folks screaming that this was in fact marginal were correct and as my eyes and legs aged, I discovered .45 Colt and it's amazing range and versatility (my most potent argument for .357).
The true king of versatility is the 19th century .45 Colt, given todays boutique ammo manufacturers and modern steel firearms available. Many states that would not allow rifle hunting now allow "straight wall" cartridge hunting and as Craig C has observed, bullet weight and metplat dimensions are true qualifiers for medium game in a "handgun" cartridge.
The Ruger Blackhawk and (in my case) a Miroku 1892 chambered in .45 Colt allow a truly broad expanse of possible loads.
The Buffalo Bore 325gr. hard cast are truly effective on contiguous 48 game for both firearms. You may find better .44 mag. performers, but you won't miss them a bit until you get to moose (yes even with a 5" handgun, but you will need to be at breath smelling range) in my experience. Not meaning to venture into a caliber war I will simply state that we are fortunate enough to live in an age where either can be pressed very effectively into lower 48 hunting as a matched revolver lever-action pair.
This is one true benefit from .45 Colt +P loads. The 1873 SAA version of this cartridge could never have imagined this kind of performance or usefulness. Time marches on.
Regards.
In truth all of the folks screaming that this was in fact marginal were correct and as my eyes and legs aged, I discovered .45 Colt and it's amazing range and versatility (my most potent argument for .357).
The true king of versatility is the 19th century .45 Colt, given todays boutique ammo manufacturers and modern steel firearms available. Many states that would not allow rifle hunting now allow "straight wall" cartridge hunting and as Craig C has observed, bullet weight and metplat dimensions are true qualifiers for medium game in a "handgun" cartridge.
The Ruger Blackhawk and (in my case) a Miroku 1892 chambered in .45 Colt allow a truly broad expanse of possible loads.
The Buffalo Bore 325gr. hard cast are truly effective on contiguous 48 game for both firearms. You may find better .44 mag. performers, but you won't miss them a bit until you get to moose (yes even with a 5" handgun, but you will need to be at breath smelling range) in my experience. Not meaning to venture into a caliber war I will simply state that we are fortunate enough to live in an age where either can be pressed very effectively into lower 48 hunting as a matched revolver lever-action pair.
This is one true benefit from .45 Colt +P loads. The 1873 SAA version of this cartridge could never have imagined this kind of performance or usefulness. Time marches on.
Regards.
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Vern Humphrey
Member
Standard .45 Colt loads seem to be what you want, along with a revolver capable of either switching cylinders (such as the Ruger Blackhawk) or one cut for moon clips.
ljnowell
Member
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