P365XL Arrived - Review of problems
- Thread starter Alllen Bundy
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Alllen Bundy
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And I'd agree with anyone that says Sigs are overpriced. But sometimes you are paying for the design and not the cost of manufacture. The P365 and P365XL cost more than I wanted to pay. But in the end I received something that I was able to tailor to my needs.
I am considering the possibility of using a P365-X Macro grip module with replaceable backstraps that might better fit my XL sized hands. But I want to use 12 rd XL magazines. It may be possible to remove some of the bottom of the grip module to allow 12 rd XL magazines to fit. But that is an $80 experiment that will have to wait, as I have a new pocket holster design that I want to make first. Sometimes you cannot buy exactly what you want and you need to modify it or make it yourself.
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Buckeye63
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As mentioned the SIG P365 series prices are high.. but they are the leaders of the pack in tbe micro-9 world .. They picked up a P11 and totally ran with it ..and changed the gun industry
Im interested in seeing what’s coming out in the next few years …
Im interested in seeing what’s coming out in the next few years …
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Alllen Bundy
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I'll probably buy a P365 used when they're not the newest hottest thing anymore.
They aren't. The Hellcat and a number of others are giving it very good competition. But it's fair to say that the P365 series is in the top 5 of micro compact pistols. But it's true that Sig seems to be always coming up with their new expensive P365 flavor of the month. As far as fit and finish goes the P365 series a VW Beetle, NOT a Porsche Turbo Carrera.
But beware of the older versions of the P365 that do not have the chisel tip striker and have the old extractor design. The striker can easily be replaced, but the slide with the old extractor would require machining to adapt it to use the newer extractor design. You would also want to replace the disconnector with the newer design.
1-cavediver
Member
For me personally, I’m done with SIG for good. My last three SIG purchases that include a .308 Cross, P320 and a P322 have all had factory defects that required them to be sent back for repair. The Cross and P322 were at SIG for over 2 months each. They use their customers for BETA testing which is totally unacceptable.
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Alllen Bundy
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I absolutely agree. I've worked in product design and development where I spent countless hours doing performance testing, reliability testing, and UL Safety Testing of products. Sig should have caught most of these problems before the product was ever released.
But I'm also not going to cut off my nose to spite my face. I'll let Sig work most of the bugs out of a product before I will buy it if it will suit my needs.
Glock has used plastic guide rods that cracked. I don't trust any manufacturer. So I'll carefully evaluate a product before I use it.
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Alllen Bundy
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For those that have never taken their FCU apart, here is a photo showing the rough edge of the trigger bar that contacts the sear and the striker safety lever:
As you can see the trigger bar is made from a piece of stamped steel which as a rough edge because of the stamping process. Sig does NOT bother to smooth out the rough surface on the edge that contacts the sear and striker safety lever. This is typically what causes the trigger to feel gritty. A few minutes of carefully hand honing this edge with a diamond whetstone can make your trigger feel smoother.
As you can see the trigger bar is made from a piece of stamped steel which as a rough edge because of the stamping process. Sig does NOT bother to smooth out the rough surface on the edge that contacts the sear and striker safety lever. This is typically what causes the trigger to feel gritty. A few minutes of carefully hand honing this edge with a diamond whetstone can make your trigger feel smoother.
Ehh, having owned several Porsches I can tell you first hand that the fit and finish isn't always perfect.
Like anything else, if a human was involved.. What stopped me from buying more Sig stuff was when I ordered a part for a 1911. The Sig part had "Made in India" on the bag it came in. It should be no secret they make their products as cheaply as possible, but people see the name and think it's top shelf. My newest 365X w/ the new optic cut seems decent, the trigger is 5.1 lbs on average and it has a wonderfully crisp break. I find it more perplexing that my P322 with a really really low serial hasn't had a bobble, shoots straight and hasn't caused me any concern, yet it seems like many newer P322s have all sorts of issues.
That's why the 365 series is all I have left, and if it wasn't for the changeability I'd probably still have a Glock.
Had two Glock plastic guide rods crack, a Gen 2 G19 and a Gen3 G22 .40. Both with countless rounds through them. It didn't matter much, they still functioned perfectly.
That's one reason I still appreciate Glocks, they're like McDonald's burgers...they're all made exactly the same..over and over again. I just wish they'd fix the grip angle
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This thread sort of amuses me. I have 8 p365XL pistols (one SPectre) and 4 p365 pistols (ons SAS). I generally shoot 100 - 200 rds per week through several of them each and have no trouble with 2" 10 shot groups as 25 feet. No malfunctions of any kind over the last 4 years of weekly shooting. We also shoot Taurus TX22 at about the same rate to save money and we have the occasional Taurus malfunction FTF, FTE, etc. I would the reliability of the Sig pistols as Excellent - bet-your-life-on-it. I would rate the TX22 as a fun practice pistol whose reliability does not interfere with practice. We shoot the cheapest low ball ammo we can buy and lots of it.
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Alllen Bundy
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I just looked at my spare parts and 5 Sig parts bags indicated "Made in USA" and the other 5 had no country of origin listed.
I'm assuming that you have the flat trigger. FYI, the P365, P365X, and P365XL will all have the same trigger pull force requirement at the end of the trigger. The only difference is that the curved trigger keeps your finger in the middle of the trigger and the flat trigger allows you to squeeze further outward on the trigger giving you more leverage. If you measure the trigger pull force in the middle of the flat trigger it will be nearly identical to the curved trigger and be about 7 lbs.
There shouldn't be any real difference in the break between the P365, P365X, and the P365XL as they all use the same FCU parts.
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Alllen Bundy
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The finishing inside my new P365XL appears to be much better than my P365 that I bought in 2020. A big issue with my P365 was that it was very difficult to retract the slide over a 12 rd magazine loaded to capacity. Polishing the stripper rail cured the problem. My P365XL wasn't any where near as difficult to retract the slide over a 12 rd magazine loaded to capacity and the stripper rail didn't seem as rough. My P365 had black Nitron finish on the stripper rail that wore off quickly with use. My P365XL looks like the stripper rail had the Nitron coating over the stripper rail, but that it was either ground or sanded off at the factory and the stripper rail was not as rough as my P365.
I removed the recoil spring assembly, the barrel, the striker assembly, and the disconnector and took measurements of how much force was required to rack the slide over a 12 rd magazine loaded to capacity. I then wet sanded the stripper rail from 400 grit to 1,500 grit. I remeasured the slide retraction force. It required 22% more force to retract the slide with an unpolished stripper rail. After you factor in the drag caused by the disconnector, the striker, and the recoil spring, it amounted to about 8% more total force to retract the slide with an unpolished stripper rail. It is still an improvement, but not the huge improvement that polishing the stripper rail made on my P365.
Also, the finish on the breechface and left adjacent wall to the breechface on my new P365XL is smoother than my P365 was. I don't know if this is the normal variation in quality control, or if Sig has improved their quality.
I polished the rough edge of the trigger bar where it contacts the sear and striker safety lever. Most of the new trigger grittiness is caused by the rough edge of the trigger bar. I also replaced the flat trigger with the curved trigger. The trigger pull is now almost as smooth as my P365. A little bit of dry firing should smooth out the sear.
I removed the recoil spring assembly, the barrel, the striker assembly, and the disconnector and took measurements of how much force was required to rack the slide over a 12 rd magazine loaded to capacity. I then wet sanded the stripper rail from 400 grit to 1,500 grit. I remeasured the slide retraction force. It required 22% more force to retract the slide with an unpolished stripper rail. After you factor in the drag caused by the disconnector, the striker, and the recoil spring, it amounted to about 8% more total force to retract the slide with an unpolished stripper rail. It is still an improvement, but not the huge improvement that polishing the stripper rail made on my P365.
Also, the finish on the breechface and left adjacent wall to the breechface on my new P365XL is smoother than my P365 was. I don't know if this is the normal variation in quality control, or if Sig has improved their quality.
I polished the rough edge of the trigger bar where it contacts the sear and striker safety lever. Most of the new trigger grittiness is caused by the rough edge of the trigger bar. I also replaced the flat trigger with the curved trigger. The trigger pull is now almost as smooth as my P365. A little bit of dry firing should smooth out the sear.
That's extremely impressive. I have known a few people who could shoot that well, but none of them were so good that they would say they could do it with no trouble.
Also very impressive for the pistols and ammo. The reviews I've seen seldom produce groups that small at 25 yards, even shooting rested from the bench.
I meant 25 feet. sorry. edited.
Yukon_Cola
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I tried my buddy's after hearing people rave about them and didn't like it at all. They are over hyped and over priced IMO.
Homerboy
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Too much tinkering for me. I trust the companies who invested millions in design and development to create their product over a kitchen table gunsmith.
The OP is clearly a handy guy, but I think he gets more enjoyment in tinkering with his guns than shooting them. Nothing wrong with that. They’re his property. But I wouldn’t carry a weapon that was so heavily tinkered with. About as far as I’ve ever done is changing a plastic guide rod to metal, polishing a feed ramp, and installing Wolff magazine and recoil springs.
The OP is clearly a handy guy, but I think he gets more enjoyment in tinkering with his guns than shooting them. Nothing wrong with that. They’re his property. But I wouldn’t carry a weapon that was so heavily tinkered with. About as far as I’ve ever done is changing a plastic guide rod to metal, polishing a feed ramp, and installing Wolff magazine and recoil springs.
Nope. Minimum of 5 pulls - from the middle of the flat trigger - on an unfired gun for that matter - my new 365X averages 5.1 lbs on a Lyman trigger gauge. My old 365X was 5.5, XL was 5.8 and my first batch 365 from 2018 was 5.0. Further, my Staccato C2 DPO measures 4.3 on average and a friends' identical model C2 within three numbers of each other measures 4.1. No two are the same.
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Alllen Bundy
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That seems like an excessive amount of variation. Between my P365 and P365XL I've got 6 trigger springs and 5 sear springs to measure. I'll see how much variation in trigger force they cause. I'll be measuring from both the tip of the trigger and the middle of the curved trigger. I may also measure from the tip of the flat trigger. I seriously doubt that there will be any significant difference between the trigger force of the curved and flat triggers when pulled from the tip of the triggers.
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Alllen Bundy
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You are way too trusting, especially considering that Sig actually released a pistol that was NOT drop safe. I've worked for a dozen different manufacturers and I would only consider one of them to be ethical. One company actually asked me to FALSIFY a UL Safety Testing Report, which I REFUSED to do! I have VERY LITTLE trust in manufacturers.
I shoot as much as I have time for and can afford to. If you want to donate to my ammunition and range time fund I could shoot more often.
And just what "tinkering" that I have done would cause a reliability problem?
Here is my list of what I do to a new P365 series pistol to get it ready for use.
Reliability improvements:
Polish the Stripper Rail.
Polish the Breechface.
Polish the Left Adjacent Wall to the Breechface.
Polish the underside of the Extractor Claw.
Polish the Beveled Edge of the Extractor Claw.
Polish the very rough edge of the Trigger Bar where it contacts the Sear and Striker Safety Lever.
Polish the rough edge of the Striker Safety Lever.
Polish the guide rod.
Solvent clean and relubricate the Return Spring Assembly after break-in.
ALL of these polished areas would normally become smoother after use anyway. I just greatly sped of the break-in period from requiring tens of thousands of rounds to being almost completely broken-in before I fire the first round.
Actual modifications:
Mildly radius the Corners of the Beavertail so my hand can't catch on it during a draw.
Extend the Magazine Release Button with JB Weld Epoxy.
Add Weight to the inside of the rear of the Grip.
Cut off the Right Side Manual Trigger Safety Lever.
Smooth out the Molding seams on the Trigger Guard.
Radius the sharp angles at the underside of the Grip by the Magwell.
Add a MagGuts Spring Kit to increase the magazine capacity by 2 rounds and also reduce the necessary racking force.
Deburr the Sharp edges of the Magazine Spring.
Reshape and Radius the outside edges of the MagGuts Floorplate for greater comfort.
Homerboy
Member
I don’t buy brand new model guns. Let the bugs be worked first.
I’ve been buying and shooting guns for 30 years. Guns of all makes and models. They’ve all operated as they should and went bang every time. I don’t need to radius and deburr things like you do.
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Alllen Bundy
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That is all well and good if all you ever do is shoot your guns at the range. But what if you need to operate your gun in an adverse condition and it fails? That is when the extra finishing steps that I take pay off. Plus, I don't need much time for my gun to break in before it is operating at peak efficiency.
Ks5shooter
Contributing Member
I'll probably buy a P365 used when they're not the newest hottest thing anymore.
this^^^^^^^^^^^Just like the M&P Shield you can now get them used in gun stores for 200 bucks(one at my local gunshop right now ,mint condition).When a market floods and guns go upgrades to different versions/variations 2.0 etc prices fall in the used market.
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Alllen Bundy
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The rough trigger bar is the main reason for a gritty trigger on a new Sig P365 series pistol. Here are the photos of the trigger bar where it contacts the sear and the striker safety lever before and after being polished. I initially used a diamond whetstone to perform the hand grinding, and then I wet sanded with silicon carbide sandpaper to smooth out the grinding marks.
Can you say SMOOOOTH trigger? I thought you could.
Can you say SMOOOOTH trigger? I thought you could.
Ks5shooter
Contributing Member
I want to love the 365 but removing the back sight to add red dot,cant do it.Ill stick with my Glock MOS and co-witness..
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Alllen Bundy
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Whatchu Talkin' 'Bout Willis?
There is no need to remove the rear sight from the new P365XL and P365X slides to add an RDS.
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