Paper Cartridges - What Kind of Accuracy Are You Getting?

Status
Not open for further replies.

carbine85

Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2007
Messages
2,402
Location
Southwest, Ohio
I'm experimenting with 2 different revolvers and various loads.
The accuracy just isn't there for me. The .44 Pietta Sheriff model doesn't like the paper cartridges at all. The .44 Uberti 1860 is okay but shoots notably better without paper cartridges.
I just tried some with a non lubricated felt wad added and that didn't go well at all.
I know I have to get thinner papers
Should I expect less accuracy?
What's your formula?
 
I get surprisingly good accuracy when using period correct paper cartridges in my .54 caliber horse pistol. Last time I tried them it was under 2" at 10 yards, that's with a smoothbore mind you. I was quite happy with them, but haven't made any in a while since they are rather tedious to made.
 
I've made period incorrect paper cartridges using American Spirits papers and there was no noticeable difference with conicals. This is two-handed offhand shooting at 15 yds.
 
Just wondering how the method of delivering powder into the chambers would affect accuracy. The only thing I would think would be erratic ignition and burn. I gave up on paper cartridges when I begin to find paper debris in the bottom of the chambers whilst cleaning after a range session, that and the tedium of making the cartridge in the first place. Of course to some the cartridge making is an activity unto its self.
 
Just wondering how the method of delivering powder into the chambers would affect accuracy. The only thing I would think would be erratic ignition and burn. I gave up on paper cartridges when I begin to find paper debris in the bottom of the chambers whilst cleaning after a range session, that and the tedium of making the cartridge in the first place. Of course to some the cartridge making is an activity unto its self.
I'm finding left over paper myself. I found some Zigzag Ultra thin papers so I'm going to try those.
I'm also going to use some corn meal for filler.
 
I, too, found small paper shards often enough. I had a small pair of needle nose pliers to pull them out but decided to see what happened if I left them. I fired 3 cylinders full without an issue. Not much of an experiment as I ran out of cartridges by that time.

I did enjoy making cartridges at home, and it certainly gave me more actual shooting time while at the range. I had decided to try making them due to friends losing interest in the time to load and then reload compared to their modern pistols.

Another thing about paper cartridges (or the rubber reloading tubes I also have) is that it would make loading in the field much easier, especially if it were breezy, but also in that I wouldn't need a flask and powder measure. Plus I could weigh the charges if I really wanted consistency.

These are the rubber tubes I bought:

http://winchestersutler.com/ShotLoad.html#QCTube

They had a static to them that held a few grains of powder but I was told washing them or rubbing them with a dryer sheet will take care of that.
 
Paper cartridges themselves, as opposed to loose powder in the chamber, really ought not impact accuracy, unless they are not igniting. Ball seating depth may be an issue. The sweet spot for accuracy and reasonable velocity with ball tends to be in the 23 - 28 grs 3F range, although full 30 grain loads can also work well in many revolvers. In my experience, for CAS, Bugler cigarette papers filled 21 grs 3F topped up with corn meal, covered with a thin card wad and a dab of lube such that the ball seats 1/8" - 1/10th" below the chamber mouth works just fine. During a session where I may shoot 6-7 cylinders in each pistol, I find there will indeed be unburnt paper in the cylinders, but I have never had a failure to ignite due to paper residue. Every 2-3 cylinders when loading the next, a 45 cal bronze brush down the cylinder before popping in the next paper cartridge suffices to get it out.

The issue that many seem to have is that they fold the bottom of the cartridge or leave a tail. This creates a substantial barrier between nipple and powder inhibiting ignition. There are two ways to avoid this. First, by using a tapered dowel that is undersized relative to the nipple end of the chamber, when the ball and cartridge are rammed home, the cartridge will rupture, leaving loose powder open to cap ignition. However, if one is using a fold or leaving a tail, there will be a build up of unburnt paper in front of the cap. To avoid this, after twisting the bottom of the cartridge shut, the trick is to cut the tail off close to the twist, but not so close that it untwists. The bottom of the cartridge is then rather fragile. To protect the end, with the paper still on the dowel, push it into a spent 45acp case and slide the empty paper cartridge off the dowel such that the paper tube is now sitting in the 45 acp case. Fill with powder, filler, card wad, dollop of lube, twist top shut and cut off tail. You now have a paper cartridge with a fragile base protected by the 45 acp brass in which it is conveniently and securely stored. At loading, simply lift out and drop into chamber. As it is seated, along with the ball, the fragile base will rupture, exposing powder directly to the nipple entrance to the chamber, ensuring ignition and avoiding paper build up in front of the flash hole.

Use of the 45 acp brass to hold the cartridges is convenient, keeps them secure, and greatly facilitates loading. A full tray of paper tubes seated in 45 acp brass simply wants the appropriate dipper of powder and filler (if used) dropped in, a card popped on top and pushed in with the dowel (a .450" card should do nicely), and then a dollop of lube, twist the top and clip the tail.
 
Cutting the tail close is what I initially did, which worked fine. Later I folded the end and used a glue stick, which also worked fine for me. My dowel is also undersized.
 
How are you loading the paper cartridges into the revolvers? As I see it, there are two ways of doing this: either you can rip the paper open and pour the loose powder into the chamber (followed by the bullet and the paper as a sort of top wadding), or else you can ram the entire cartridge, intact, into the chamber. I believe the second way was how it was done originally during the Civil War, but then they used combustible paper. It seems like you would get the best ignition with loose powder in the chamber.
 
How are you loading the paper cartridges into the revolvers? As I see it, there are two ways of doing this: either you can rip the paper open and pour the loose powder into the chamber (followed by the bullet and the paper as a sort of top wadding), or else you can ram the entire cartridge, intact, into the chamber. I believe the second way was how it was done originally during the Civil War, but then they used combustible paper. It seems like you would get the best ignition with loose powder in the chamber.
I drop in the whole cartridge without ripping the paper.
 
I don't rip the paper either and never had ignition problems with either of my two revolvers.
 
I don't rip the paper either and never had ignition problems with either of my two revolvers.
Combustible paper? I believe Dixie Gun Works used to sell (or maybe still sells) combustible paper for making pistol and carbine cartridges. My experience with this was that it was fairly thick and would not tear easily. Someone should do a study comparing the various means of loading cap-and-ball revolvers.
 
Try those curler papers sold at beauty supply shops. I've had great luck and they're cheap.
 
Combustible paper? I believe Dixie Gun Works used to sell (or maybe still sells) combustible paper for making pistol and carbine cartridges. My experience with this was that it was fairly thick and would not tear easily. Someone should do a study comparing the various means of loading cap-and-ball revolvers.

No. American Spirits papers. They're made of flax and are fairly thin.
 
I've also read several people state that curling papers work well and are very cheap.
 
be careful with unburnt paper left in the chambers, don't want an ember in there to ignite your next load, which if you are loading a full paper cartridge already has your projectile on the powder you are putting in there. If you had an ember and were just pouring powder in from a measure you will get a blast for sure and probably some burns but you won't get a ball blasting out. You are also reloading faster since you have these cartridges already made up, so in addition to the paper making embers more likely, you also have less time for any embers to burn out. perhaps a section of drinking straw or one of those air blast canisters should be used to blow out the chambers before you reload. I think this problem is a bit more prevalient with rifles and single shot pistols, as you would be almost instantly reloading the chamber you just fired as you have only 1 and a deep one where embers might burn longer to boot. Revolvers this risk may be less since the chambers are much more open to the air and you arent necessary reloading the just fired chamber straight away. Perhaps overly cautious, but it only has to happen once.
 
Hoi,

I'm like a lot of people in here: the accuracy does not change when using paper cartidges..
I don't use cigarette paper but the bits of nitrated wrap paper used for my Sharps, the accuracy is for me a bit less obvious when I'm using Lee 450-200 1R bullet than a round ball.
I'm allways shooting at 25 meters (we can't shoot 10m in the country I live: it's prohibited) and with 15gn of swiss black powder FFFg granullation is no difference with the bulk powder and .454 RB of pure lead...

Perhaps something wrong in the making, paper, filler or nitration if you don't use cigarettes paper. Personally I do not like this kind of paper (cigarettes paper) but it is a choice and the fully nitrated wrap paper seems better may be because this gives more oxygen when burning...

May be a way that needs to be explored too...

Have a nice day everybody.
 
Hoi,

I'm like a lot of people in here: the accuracy does not change when using paper cartidges..
I don't use cigarette paper but the bits of nitrated wrap paper used for my Sharps, the accuracy is for me a bit less obvious when I'm using Lee 450-200 1R bullet than a round ball.
I'm allways shooting at 25 meters (we can't shoot 10m in the country I live: it's prohibited) and with 15gn of swiss black powder FFFg granullation is no difference with the bulk powder and .454 RB of pure lead...

Perhaps something wrong in the making, paper, filler or nitration if you don't use cigarettes paper. Personally I do not like this kind of paper (cigarettes paper) but it is a choice and the fully nitrated wrap paper seems better may be because this gives more oxygen when burning...

May be a way that needs to be explored too...

Have a nice day everybody.

Do you make your own nitrated paper - if so how? If bought - who is the manufacturer?

Edited to add: Sorry - googled it and found that Buffalo Arms sells nitrated paper.
https://www.buffaloarms.com/nitrate...idges-8-1-2x11-10-sheets-per-package-usa20745

Also seeing some youtube vids on making it. Will post a good one if I find it.
 
Last edited:
Hoi,

.
I'm allways shooting at 25 meters (we can't shoot 10m in the country I live: it's prohibited) and with 15gn of swiss black powder FFFg granullation is no difference with the bulk powder and .454 RB of pure lead...


Now there's a new one, wonder what's the rational behind that one..............................
 
I.

Another thing about paper cartridges (or the rubber reloading tubes I also have) is that it would make loading in the field much easier, especially if it were breezy, but also in that I wouldn't need a flask and powder measure. Plus I could weigh the charges if I really wanted consistency.

These are the rubber tubes I bought:

http://winchestersutler.com/ShotLoad.html#QCTube

They had a static to them that held a few grains of powder but I was told washing them or rubbing them with a dryer sheet will take care of that.

I've gotten into the habit of flicking the back of the tube with my finger and then returning the tube to the holding tray upside-down. This came about when I noticed an inconsistent sound between rounds. Not only was not all the powder being dumped enough was remaining to increase the charge when next the tube was re-charged.
 
Do you make your own nitrated paper - if so how? If bought - who is the manufacturer?

Edited to add: Sorry - googled it and found that Buffalo Arms sells nitrated paper.
https://www.buffaloarms.com/nitrate...idges-8-1-2x11-10-sheets-per-package-usa20745

Also seeing some youtube vids on making it. Will post a good one if I find it.

I tried nitrating my rolling papers. It's easy but messy.

I bought stump remover. I heated water and placed it into a small bowl. I poured stump remover and stirred until it no longer dissolved (complete saturation). I dipped the unglued portion in the liquid and placed them on an old barbecue rack to dry. It leaves this white crystalline substance that flakes off and it's easy to get in your mouth when you lick the glue strip. I lost interest quickly.

I had also taken a small paint brush and applied it to premade cartridges. I never tried them again and it may not work as well or it may be a nice way to do it. Not sure. But it also may only work with real BP as it may ruin a substitute powder.
 
I tried nitrating my rolling papers. It's easy but messy.

I bought stump remover. I heated water and placed it into a small bowl. I poured stump remover and stirred until it no longer dissolved (complete saturation). I dipped the unglued portion in the liquid and placed them on an old barbecue rack to dry. It leaves this white crystalline substance that flakes off and it's easy to get in your mouth when you lick the glue strip. I lost interest quickly.

I had also taken a small paint brush and applied it to premade cartridges. I never tried them again and it may not work as well or it may be a nice way to do it. Not sure. But it also may only work with real BP as it may ruin a substitute powder.

Don't want to eat to much saltpeter!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top