PG Only Shotguns and Hip Shooting 101...

[AWKIII]

I am a cop. My primary duty weapon is a 1911. Riding next to me in the seat is my Remington 870 with full length stock. I live in the country. Hanging by my front door is my pgo Mossberg. When someone knocks on my door at unusual hours, they are greeted with the pgo. Big target close range. No matter how specialized it may be, all guns have a purpose. Anyone can become proficient with any weapon given enough time to practice. If you are comfortable using a pgo, use it. It is better than answering the door with a baseball bat.

Silly arguments and pissing matches, like the last seven pages really upset me. I am a God fearing gun loving American, and I figure the PGO fans are to. As long as they believe in Liberty and Freedom I will stand beside them with their pgo and fight any day.

Lets quit arguing over petty differences and unite to fight abouth SH%T that really matterS.

CERTA BONUM CERTAMEN FIDEI

 

[Southern Rebel]

The point is that in this thread, it's already a given that we all possess the proper mindset to defend ourselves. There's fundamentally no reason to even breach the subject in this thread, except to make a dig at those who disagree with you.

That is exactly the "given" that my uncle was trying to get across to me - it isn't a given. What I was trying to say was that we shouldn't get so bogged down as to what is "best" because if a person can effectively handle the weapon he has at the moment of conflict, his survival will be determined by the two other factors. (By the way, as to "digs", you drew first blood , but I am ok with that.)

His advice was based on his actual combat in Korea where he killed his first Chinese soldier when he was not yet 18 yrs old. His unit was part of the group that were involved in the last-minute evacuation by sea. His description of climbing the ice-coated rigging was a tribute to his overcoming fear. He noted that the Commanding Officer warned them if they fell into the sea, they were dead men because there wouldn't be time to rescue them. He said he saw several of his unit become frozen by fear and just clung until fatigue forced them to turn loose to their death.

I have remembered that advice for many years and try to practice what he preached. I will be sure that when I pick up a gun, I can be proficient enough by my own standards to use it. That choice and measurement will be mine to make. But I also believe that the ultimate determination of proficient use will largely be determined by the two other factors mentioned and my belief is that we really won't know until the situation arises. And even then, different situations might evoke different responses.

My hope for all of us is that our future will contain only battles with paper. Just maybe our survival battles will be waged within these forums with only hypothetical and theoretical encounters, weapons, and strategies. I guess in that scenario, we will all be forum Ninja warriors. Now, I guess we all need to put up our toy soldiers for the night.

 

[Robert]

How one reacts when bullets are being fired at you with deadly intent has very little to do with the willingness and mindset to defend oneself stated boldly before it ever happens.

Absolutely wrong. Ones training and mind set, when I was in training it was called the warrior mind set, has everything to do with the way you will react in a life or death situation. But only if one posses the correct training and mind set. I am prepared to win, and live, at any cost. I will not stop and I will not back down till I am killed. That is my mind set. And it has everything to do with winning any conflict. My training dictates how my body will react. How I move, look for cover and or concealment, reload my weapon, advance, retreat and every other physical aspect of a fight are determined by my training. Sure there are some things that you just can not train for and so you adjust on the fly. I am not talking about shooting holes in targets from a bench on a sunny Saturday afternoon. I am talking about fighting your way free of an attacker who is doing his best to choke you out(or at least make you believe that is what is happening), breaking contact and employing your weapon. I compete in two different shooting sports and find them to be great fun and some decent training as well. So yes, training and mind set have everything in the world to do with how I react when bullets start flying. I will win.
I do not disagree that the PGO shotgun in very close quarters would be a devastating weapon, but it does nothing better or faster than my full stock shotgun. And as I have stated before my full stock shotgun does them all better.

 

[amd6547]

Yes, of course mindset and willingness to defend oneself are important components, yet during WWII, when our troops were one of the best trained and equipped armies in the world, SLA Marshal found:
Marshall was a U.S. Army historian in the Pacific theater during World War II and later became the official U.S. historian of the European theater of operations. He had a team of historians working for him, and they based their findings on individual and mass interviews with thousands of soldiers in more than 400 infantry companies immediately after they had been in close combat with German or Japanese troops. The results were consistently the same: Only 15 to 20 percent of the American riflemen in combat during World War II would fire at the enemy. Those who would not fire did not run or hide—in many cases they were willing to risk greater danger to rescue comrades, get ammunition, or run messages. They simply would not fire their weapons at the enemy, even when faced with repeated waves of banzai charges.

Why did these men fail to fire? As a historian, psychologist, and soldier, I examined this question and studied the process of killing in combat. I have realized that there was one major factor missing from the common understanding of this process, a factor that answers this question and more: the simple and demonstrable fact that there is, within most men and women, an intense resistance to killing other people. A resistance so strong that, in many circumstances, soldiers on the battlefield will die before they can overcome it.
When the games and training turn into reality, nothing can predict how an individual will perform.

 

[Justin]

You know, if you're going to quote Lt. Col. Dave Grossman verbatim, perhaps it would be a good idea to cite him.

 

[Robert]

And the biggest problem you have in a draft military vs a volunteer military is that so many people only do what they need to do stay out of trouble. They do not want to be there and as such only do what needs to be done to fly under the radar. I am not in any way shape or form try to dishonor our fighting forces then or now. But the simple fact remain that some people will only do the bare minimum to get by. We have all known or seen these people in our various training environments.

Plagiarism, wow that is a nice touch. Very classy.

 

[rbernie]

We're just talking past each other, and way afield from the OP - it's probably time to close thie one out. Anyone wandering in to read the thread probably stopped reading about fifty posts ago, anyway.