Pistol Caliber Carbine - Suggestions Needed

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This weekend I'm going to a gun show to search for a pistol caliber carbine. There are a few models which I know of off the top of my head, and I'd like to know what you all think of them.


  • Kel-Tec Sub 2000. This seems like the most likely candidate. I've heard of some people having trouble with them, but I've also heard that Kel-Tec is really good about fixing their problems.
  • Ruger PC4. I hear they're well made, but Ruger also is still behaving badly regarding the magazine capacity issue.
  • Marlin Camp Carbine. Since they don't make them any more I don't know if I'll encounter one or not.
  • Hi-Point Carbine. They're hideous, but I hear they're reliable. Plus they're cheap. There are also magazine capacity issues.
  • Marlin 1894C. It doesn't seem to be getting the attention that they others are.
  • The CX4 looks to be outside my price range.
 
You see, your problem is that you need to increase your price range!

I bit the bullet (so to speak) and bought a CX4 when it was still fairly new. I took it out on the range with a friend of mine and got a disparaging comment from his father about the thing (expensive silly plastic canoli shooter - let's see if it melts after two magazines, &c...) and promptly shut him up by sticking the first three rounds through the same hole at about 20 yards with the stock iron sights. Sights shot a little low out of the box, but windage was dead on and the thing was scarily, eerily accurate.

The only complaint I have about it is that the magazine insertion is 'funny', for lack of a better word. The angle at which you need to insert the magazine isn't readily apparent and if you do it wrong it tends to bind, but maybe that's because mine was new and I hadn't worn it in or something.

I've since bought an aftermarket 50 (!) round magazine for it off of Cheaper than Dirt (this was a while ago, before the AWB expired, so it was a big deal then!) and failed to melt the gun with it and the two stock ten rounders (and the two free fifteeners I got via the coupon that came with the gun) as predicted.

The Storm is beautifully built, highly accurate, fits and points really well, and takes regular M92 magainzes (which can be a plus or a minus, depending on what your sidearm is). Interesting tidbit is that magazine adapters are out there for it that run about 15 bucks and will let you load Cougar mags into it if you like (also the mags for the new PX4).

Interesting that this topic comes up, as I should be getting my Storm back from the police ( :fire: ) this Friday.

I handled a bunch of other carbines before I bought that thing including the Kel-Tec and the Hy-point 9mm carbine, and neither impressed me. The Hy-point (is that how you spell it?) just didn't seem to shoulder right and the construction was very squeaky. The stock and foregrip flexed and audibly squeaked when handling the gun. It felt like it should be a cheap airsoft rifle or something.

And the Kel-Tec didn't seem well enough built to justify the price next to the Storm, though I hear it's a very nice gun in and of itself. And the folding feature was sort of nifty and almost sold me on it. Also, it takes plain jane Glock mags which you can buy by the bucketfull these days, including high caps.
 
My first choice would clearly be the Beretta. No surprise there, as it's a quality firearm: the rail, common mag usability, simplicity of the action, sight/dot/scope options, etc, all are great features.

Second would be the PC Carbines. Same quality, sight/dot/scope options, etc,
and is generally a good platform.

Third, is the Keltec. It's not as flexible as far as mounted accessories (as shipped) but the glock/SW/Sig mag use, the ability to fold, light in weight,
and simplicity is a plus.

I don't know if I'd trust a hi-point. Not a bash, but If I can have a Keltec for
$150 more, I'd rather have that.
 
I've put at least 1,000 rnds through my hi-point 9mm rifle without a single jam. I rarely clean it, just to see if it will start malfunctioning. It's really ugly and the stock feels like a child's toy. It also is as accurate as I can be, freestanding with a pistol caliber rifle. If you're just looking for something cheap to play with, then I'd give it serious thought.

If you're looking for something for a more substantial reason, like self-defense or pistol caliber carbine matches, then something like the Beretta is more in order. I know two people with them, and they really enjoy them.

If you search rifle country for the marlin 1894, you'll find volumes of info. The consensus is vastly positive and people love them. The 1894C in .357 has been on my wishlist for quite a long time.

I think consciously listing your requirements for the role the rifle is to fill would narrow down your choices significantly.
 
I mainly shoot because it amuses me, but I like to have guns which could reliably be used for personal defense if necessary. I also like the idea of the thing still working twenty years down the road.
 
Get a lever gun

You can pick up a nice used Puma (Win '92 clone) in .357, 44 mag or 45 Colt for under $350 in most places. They hold 10+ rounds in the tube and are reliable to a fault.

Oh, they are a lot of fun to shoot and tend to attract people when they see you shooting one at the range. You can add to the "fun" factor with a large loop lever and some semi buckhorn sights.

Then you can learn the "twirl" and get bruises on your shoulder, like the rest of us.

Find one with out the stupid safety they put on the bolt recently.
 
How about that Taurus Thunderbolt pump rifle in 45LC that just came out. It looks interesting.
 
I vote for the Kel-Tec because of its versatility. It folds down to little over 16", so it's stowable in a backpack, under a car seat, anywhere you might need or want a long gun without it bumping against your back all day.

I don't personally see any reason why the Beretta would be any better than the Kel-Tec for personal defense, other than that it's more expensive and "if it costs more, it must be better!", aka Kimber's marketing mantra. :neener:
 
My vote here goes to KelTec. It may not look as nice as some of the other carbines listed but it does work, and work well. I have well over 3000 rounds through mine since I got it. It's two biggest short comings are a heavy trigger and mounting optics. The trigger is really no worse than a NY Glock and it just takes some shopping on eBay to get the optics mounted.

kts2k.jpg


Glock mags are cheap again and work. For the price of a Storm you can have two S2k's with extras. It shoots well enough to stay on an IDPA target to the limit of the calibers effective range. It's rock simple. What more could you want?
 
First, my take on your selection.

Kel-Tec Sub 2000 -
Pro: Reliable. Compact. Reasonably priced. Can be had in multiple variations that use common magazines (Beretta 92, SIG P226, Glock 17, S&W, etc..)
Con: Ugly. Not suitable for left-handed shooters.

Ruger PC4
Pro: Extremely reliable. Attractive.
Con: Somewhat pricy. Long. Ruger politics.

Marlin Camp Carbine.
Pro: Attractive. Uses commonly available S&W or 1911 mags (depending on variant). Good reputation.
Con: No longer manufactured. In demand and therefore costs more than many are willing to pay.

Hi-Point Carbine.
Pro: Reliable. Accurate. Very inexpensive.
Con: Ugly as sin. Feels cheap. Magazine capacity.

Marlin 1894C.
Pro: Accurate. Reliable. Attractive. Powerful round (.357)
Con: Can be somewhat pricy. Tube mag instead of box.


Personally I own a Marlin 1894C and I love it. Of the options you have selected I would say the Ruger wins for attractiveness, but then I like wood. For practicality I'd say the Kel Tec wins and I've considered buying one many times. The Hi Point gets a bad rap, but they're son inexpensive I keep coming close to buying one anyway. Especially now that you can buy a third-party stock replacement that looks much better. (Gee, I wonder what they used as a model ... )

hipoint_orig.jpg
 
I've got a Sub2000 in 9mm with the Glock19 mag well. Even with the factory irons (really plastics) it will consistantly shoot 2" or so at 50 yards. And what more do you want from a folding 9mm carbine. You can get a short rail that mounts under the forearm, I've mounted one with a flashlight installed but you could also mount a laser. Mine has been completely reliable for the past two years, no complaints at all. With the 31 round mags you can have a lot of fun at the range, it also works great on possums and racoons.

I've been waiting for the Tarus pump to show up so I can see if I want one of theose too.
 
Uzi Model B made by IMI. No sweeter pistol caliber carbine has ever been made. Price is probably considerably higher than you are willing to spend though.
 
It's hard to go wrong with a Marlin 1894C.

Light, flexible, accurate, politically correct, can be used to hunt deer, relatively inexpensive (especially if you live near a Big 5 Sporting Goods store).
 
My digital camera is HORRIBLE. I could take a picture of Jessica Alba and people would STILL say.. eww.

but this is the best I could do. It's a picture of my Hi-Point. which I've fired countless rounds thru, and have never ONCE had a jam, FTF, FTE etc...

It's simple, cheap, and (I know this has been said before) more accurate than it has any business being.


Lets hope this works.
 

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The Storm and The Kel tec have some chintzy looking plastic sights... I'm told they work just fine. If I was to buy a Kel-Tec I'd go for the SU-16 though. Storm and Su-16 have no problems with magazine availability.

The Marlin 1894: no problems, esp in .44 mag, though it doesn't look like an 'assault' rifle.

Marlin Camp Guns: never seen one for sale at a gun show EVER. Lots of magazines available.

Hi-Point: Fugly but it works.

Ruger: pricey-ish for a pistol cal rifle but magazines are abundant.
 
What pistol calibers do you shoot the most? And why do you want the carbine? Getting a carbine in a caliber you don't have pistols in doesn't make much sense. If you're looking for more performance, sometimes it works, sometimes not.

Due to the fast powders used, autoloader rounds don't gain much from a carbine-length barrel. The longer sight radius and better support will, of course, improve accuracy.

Magnum revolver rounds, OTOH, are a completely different story. 180 grains at 1700+ fps, and 158s over 2k are common from .357 leverguns... That's low-end .30-30 territory. 44s and hot 45s show similar gains, with correspondingly heavier bullets.

I've got a .357 1894C, and I love it.

--Shannon
 
I shoot .357 and .40S&W. What ever I get will be in either of those. I buy ammo in bulk. It's more economical that way.
 
I own a Hi-Point and Kel-Tec 9mm and like them both, but if I had to choose one it would be the High-point. Rock solid, accurate, dependable, what more can I say. OH, Yeah, cheap too, lots more cash for ammo. GUN TESTS just recently did a head to head test between the HI-Point and the Beretta and the Hi-Point came out ahead. Factory service and warranty is outstanding on either the kel-Tec or the Hi-point.
 
For the .357, that's a no-brainer. Get the Marlin. You'll love it. For the .40, someone else will have to chime in, as I'm not a brass-chucker fan, except for .22s.

If you can live with the lower-grade wood, which isn't bad, the Big 5 version of the 1894 is an absolute steal when they go on sale for $299. The only downside is the rate at which they consume ammo. .38s shoot like a 22LR. Even full-house .357 hunting loads are easy on the shoulder, if not the wallet.

There aren't really that many things that we do with our guns that can't be handled with a 4" .357 wheelgun and a matching Marlin 1894. The best choices for everything? Not by a long shot, and clearly the wrong choice for some things. But you'd be surprised how wide a range can be covered with just those 2 firearms and 2 cartridges.

--Shannon
 
The Storm and The Kel tec have some chintzy looking plastic sights...

Erm. Wot?

The sights on my Storm are metal, front and rear. The hoods that go over them are plastic, of course.
 
There's just something about that Marlin lever gun.
Quick handling. Accurate to a fault. Dependable.

Don't just buy the 1894C. Buy it AND the 1894S (.44 Magnum.) You won't regret it!!!!!
 
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