http://pistol-grip-only-shotgun-technique.4t.com/Pistol_Grip_Only_Shotgun_Technique.html
A good article. Might open some eyes.
r
A good article. Might open some eyes.
r
Pistol grip shotguns... pointless or practical?
- Thread starter Extremely Pro Gun
- Start date
- Status
Colton White
Member
almost worthless mabey i can see that they would be nice for a car to save room and i have heard that people like them to take on a road trip they ride the duffel bag to the room so they are perty concealable but shooting?? my brother has one and just shooting half a box of bird shot will make the hand a lil sore and mabey tear a lil skin. if u have to shoot one from the hip shoot it with a level fore arm level to the ground and at your side allow ur arm to take the shock and swing back.
Grunt
Member
Again, this is where I can see the advantage of a folding stock. Fold it for compact storage or discrete carry but when you get to where you're going, unfold it and use it as a conventional pistol grip buttstock shotgun.
Extremely Pro Gun
Member
I plan on getting 4 or 5 Mossberg 88 Mavericks now and setting one up with a Hogue Tamer pistol grip for truck duty. I guess it will pay to have a bunch of good defense shotguns around the house. This will be my last gun purchase for a while.
EmGeeGeorge
Member
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2005
- Messages
- 806
This is a fresh topic... if you like them buy one... if you don't then thats yours to decide... I have one in 20 gauge I love... feels completely adequate for HD...
Others on here will poop their pants and issue challenges over "My Full Stock 870 Vs your PGO shottie" and lecture(rant)...
Others on here will poop their pants and issue challenges over "My Full Stock 870 Vs your PGO shottie" and lecture(rant)...
Dave McCracken
Moderator In Memoriam
"Feels completely adequate for HD".
Matthew, have you SHOT that thing?
And how close are you to MD?
In other words, put up or.....
Matthew, have you SHOT that thing?
And how close are you to MD?
In other words, put up or.....
I'll simply note that you don't see people shooting them at shotgun courses. You don't see instructors recommending them. You don't see them being used in 3 gun. You don't see them being used by serious users (outside of a few very specific roles).
As for size and manuverability. First I have never met a person with quality formal training that thinks a PGO gives them some great advantage over a stocked gun in manuverability. For the sake of argument lets say it does. I would take a SBS over a PGO to get the desired increase in maneuverability. As for size concerns I again would either opt for a folding stock or an SBS. Give me one of the below any day over a PGO.
I am yet to meet a person that can shoot a PGO as well as a gun with a stock. I am also yet to meet an advocate of PGOs that has real training in the defensive use of a shotgun. In all these threads no one has ever "put up."
As for size and manuverability. First I have never met a person with quality formal training that thinks a PGO gives them some great advantage over a stocked gun in manuverability. For the sake of argument lets say it does. I would take a SBS over a PGO to get the desired increase in maneuverability. As for size concerns I again would either opt for a folding stock or an SBS. Give me one of the below any day over a PGO.
I am yet to meet a person that can shoot a PGO as well as a gun with a stock. I am also yet to meet an advocate of PGOs that has real training in the defensive use of a shotgun. In all these threads no one has ever "put up."
maskedman504
Member
Girodin said:
You clearly have not seen Terminator 2: Judgement Day.
evan price
Member
maskedman504 said:
Well, yeah, but Arnold could also shoot a GE Minigun one handed. Like to see ya try that!
earlthegoat2
Member
Pointless, no.
Practical, not really either.
Learning curve is too steep and even after 100,000 thousand rounds someone with minimal practice could still pick up a full stocked shotgun and hit the target better.
I do that everyday because I am also a cyborg.
Practical, not really either.
Learning curve is too steep and even after 100,000 thousand rounds someone with minimal practice could still pick up a full stocked shotgun and hit the target better.
I do that everyday because I am also a cyborg.
THE DARK KNIGHT
Member
I'm no fan of PGO but I do gotta chime in again.
They ARE fun for laughs and such, a lot of people get wrapped up in all the gun forum talk, and tend to forget that some guns are just for fun. I see a PGO as one of those. For serious SD? No.
Not every gun and round of ammo is the latest and greatest tactical home defense tool recommended by the latest and greatest instructor to fend off the horde of zombie meth head cracked out 250lb pirate ninjas that seem seem to be wreaking havoc on every town in the country except mine.
They ARE fun for laughs and such, a lot of people get wrapped up in all the gun forum talk, and tend to forget that some guns are just for fun. I see a PGO as one of those. For serious SD? No.
Not every gun and round of ammo is the latest and greatest tactical home defense tool recommended by the latest and greatest instructor to fend off the horde of zombie meth head cracked out 250lb pirate ninjas that seem seem to be wreaking havoc on every town in the country except mine.
CajunBass
Member
My son got one of those kits once. He fired one round through it. He put the regular stock back on.
amd6547
Member
This is so pointless. That New York storeowner showed that the PG shotgun is both practical and usable. Are they fun to shoot at the range? No. Are they superior to a stocked shotgun for competition, trap shooting, or general purpose use? No. Can they be fired effectively in a close range SD encounter? YES.
BADUNAME37
Member
- Joined
- Aug 10, 2008
- Messages
- 4,434
I had a Mossberg in that configuration. I went out and shot some 12 gauge 2 3/4" loads and had to really hold on! Then 3" magnums and it came back and hit me in the jaw. A bit further over and I might be missing a few teeth.
That pistol-grip was short-lived.
I can see if you are large and heavy enough to handle it, and in tight situations like in and out of a car, under a raincoat, in tight quarters, etc. For all intents and purposes, that was not for me.
Choate makes a nice stock that has spacers at the recoil pad that you add or remove to adjust the length of pull to suit your body.
That pistol-grip was short-lived.
I can see if you are large and heavy enough to handle it, and in tight situations like in and out of a car, under a raincoat, in tight quarters, etc. For all intents and purposes, that was not for me.
Choate makes a nice stock that has spacers at the recoil pad that you add or remove to adjust the length of pull to suit your body.
snooperman
Member
- Joined
- May 4, 2009
- Messages
- 2,143
The real question..
Is not whether a few people like them , think they are cool, or attempt to explain why they have them , but rather what is the best way to employ the shotgun in a defensive manner to have the best chance of winning the fight decisively. The overwhelming majority of research data is based on sound judgement by those who do the hard work in training ; which favors a shotgun with a shoulder stock. As a retired science teacher I value sound data from testing and will gladly take the advice of those who have spent many years in their area of expertise. That said, I will not spend my money on something that has not been proven to be effective. And for a truck gun , I will take my old Ruger speed six in .357 magnum , thank you. My 2 cents.
Is not whether a few people like them , think they are cool, or attempt to explain why they have them , but rather what is the best way to employ the shotgun in a defensive manner to have the best chance of winning the fight decisively. The overwhelming majority of research data is based on sound judgement by those who do the hard work in training ; which favors a shotgun with a shoulder stock. As a retired science teacher I value sound data from testing and will gladly take the advice of those who have spent many years in their area of expertise. That said, I will not spend my money on something that has not been proven to be effective. And for a truck gun , I will take my old Ruger speed six in .357 magnum , thank you. My 2 cents.
snooperman
Member
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- May 4, 2009
- Messages
- 2,143
Amd 6547 you are wrong
They can not be fired effectively by the vast majority of those who try to employ them. There is reseach data thet refutes what you are sayiing. Before you do so you need to do YOUR HOMEWORK. No offense , just get your facts and data right.
They can not be fired effectively by the vast majority of those who try to employ them. There is reseach data thet refutes what you are sayiing. Before you do so you need to do YOUR HOMEWORK. No offense , just get your facts and data right.
snooperman
Member
- Joined
- May 4, 2009
- Messages
- 2,143
Facts
Yes , one person may get lucky with one shot but that is not what the probability will show in countless experimemtation at ranges etc.
Yes , one person may get lucky with one shot but that is not what the probability will show in countless experimemtation at ranges etc.
MCgunner
Member
In New York, he'd probably be hung for owning a handgun. In Texas, I'll use one of my .357s or my .45ACP. or one of my 9x19s or one of my .38s for such encounters. I'm much more accurate with a PISTOL than a PGO.
MCgunner
Member
Well, I DO have one.....
Justin
Moderator Emeritus
No one ever said they couldn't be used at contact distances as a defensive weapon, only that they were generally a poor choice.
He did what he could with what was at hand, and came out on top. But it's ridiculous to hang your love of PGO shotguns as a defensive weapon on one, or even a handful of events, especially when all practical evidence shows that they are slower to use, harder to aim, and generally an all around inferior choice to a shotgun with a stock.
I think of it like this...
Any energy, time and thought you dedicate towards managing the weapon is diverted from self-defense (this is also true of hunting, competition, etc.).
In some situations, you might have enough left to win over an attacker. The more energy, time and thought you can dedicate to self-defense, the more likely you are to have the edge in a given situation.
Excessive recoil, poor ergonomics, limited pointing/aiming options, poor controls, lack of familiarity, etc. all detract from a firearm's utility, especially under stress. The fact that, somewhere, at some time, a given firearm still was effective enough to be useful in a given situation, does not mean that it's the best choice if you have another choice.
Any energy, time and thought you dedicate towards managing the weapon is diverted from self-defense (this is also true of hunting, competition, etc.).
In some situations, you might have enough left to win over an attacker. The more energy, time and thought you can dedicate to self-defense, the more likely you are to have the edge in a given situation.
Excessive recoil, poor ergonomics, limited pointing/aiming options, poor controls, lack of familiarity, etc. all detract from a firearm's utility, especially under stress. The fact that, somewhere, at some time, a given firearm still was effective enough to be useful in a given situation, does not mean that it's the best choice if you have another choice.
amd6547
Member
I don't "love" PG shotguns, nor do I hang my opinion on a single occaision of succesful use recently in the news. I hang my opinion on several decades of shooting PG shotguns with four different pistol grips (Choate, pachmayr, Mossberg OEM, SpeedFeed chickenhead). The chickenhead grip is the best of the bunch, and a completely different story from the standard 90 degree PG.
In those decades of shooting, I have hit what I aimed at, and never came close to taking a recoil hit to the face (but then, I was never stupid enough to hold it in front of my face), Nor have I experienced excessive or even noticeable hand or wrist pain (using full power 00 buck or slug). And no, I am not a huge muscle man specimen. I am 5'11", and weigh about 195lbs.
If you don't like them, don't use them. They can certainly be employed succesfully across a room (note...not "contact distance").
As I pointed out in the previous thread on this subject, my primary HD weapons are the pistol, and the M1 carbine. I do keep the PG Mossberg, and a Remington Model 11 semi auto riot gun (full stock) for special occaisions.
In those decades of shooting, I have hit what I aimed at, and never came close to taking a recoil hit to the face (but then, I was never stupid enough to hold it in front of my face), Nor have I experienced excessive or even noticeable hand or wrist pain (using full power 00 buck or slug). And no, I am not a huge muscle man specimen. I am 5'11", and weigh about 195lbs.
If you don't like them, don't use them. They can certainly be employed succesfully across a room (note...not "contact distance").
As I pointed out in the previous thread on this subject, my primary HD weapons are the pistol, and the M1 carbine. I do keep the PG Mossberg, and a Remington Model 11 semi auto riot gun (full stock) for special occaisions.
oneounceload
member
As someone, who back in my youth eons ago, bought the Mossberg cruiser that came with a PGO, I can say that hitting effectively with it is not easily attainable. After trying, I added the regular stock - works much better, stands up in the corner a lot easier also.........
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