Police raid high school; place kids on floor at gunpoint.

[Mike Irwin]

Good overview page...

http://www.ncrel.org/sdrs/areas/issues/envrnmnt/drugfree/sa2lk13.htm


Interesting page...

http://www.landmarkcases.org/newjersey/compare.html

 

[Oleg Volk]

As for warrantless searches, I'm not sure, but I seem to recall a Supreme Court ruling some years ago that allows locker searches sans warrants as long as a school administrator gives permission (guardian ad litem, or something like that), and also gives police and school administrators BROAD discretionary & search powers while the students are on school property.

May be legal but still wrong. Another argument for home schooling.

 

[jimpeel]

Sir Robert Peel, The Founder of Modern Policing

http://civilliberty.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://www.newwestpolice.org/peel.html

SIR ROBERT PEEL'S NINE PRINCIPLES

The basic mission for which the police exist is to prevent crime and disorder.

The courts have absolved the police of this function and the police have willing acceded to it.

The ability of the police to perform their duties is dependent upon public approval of police actions.

More and more the public is becoming more disapproving of the actions of the police as the laws creep further and further into everyone's lives.

Police must secure the willing co-operation of the public in voluntary observance of the law to be able to secure and maintain the respect of the public.

The problem is that there are more and more prior restraint laws that make nearly everyone a criminal and take to task those who are in no way in favor of the violation of the law.

The degree of co-operation of the public that can be secured diminishes proportionately to the necessity of the use of physical force.

Note this principal especially as it regards this thread.

Police seek and preserve public favour not by catering to public opinion but by constantly demonstrating absolute impartial service to the law.

The problem is that the police are now driven by public opinion to the extent that they are unable to effectively enforce the laws.

Police use physical force to the extent necessary to secure observance of the law or to restore order only when the exercise of persuasion, advice and warning is found to be insufficient.

Hah!

Police, at all times, should maintain a relationship with the public that gives reality to the historic tradition that the police are the public and the public are the police; the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full-time attention to duties which are incumbent on every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence.

The problem here is that the police, through militarization of the forces, have forgotten their roots.

Police should always direct their action strictly towards their functions and never appear to usurp the powers of the judiciary.

The police these days act in a manner that jumps to a conclusion of guilt of the accused rather than acting in the interest of justice. The attitude of "everyone is guilty of something" is becoming pervasive.

The test of police efficiency is the absence of crime and disorder, not the visible evidence of police action in dealing with it.

This is the exact opposite of the showboating that goes on today; Waco being the best example.

 

[Augustwest]

And that sort of situation has stopped OTHER drug dealers/users from opening fire in similar situations how?

Dunno, I'm kinda sheltered, but I've never heard of a case of a pothead shooting a cop in a room full of people with other cops around. I'm willing to be corrected about that, but I've never heard of it.

but I seem to recall a Supreme Court ruling some years ago that allows locker searches sans warrants as long as a school administrator gives permission (guardian ad litem, or something like that), and also gives police and school administrators BROAD discretionary & search powers while the students are on school property.

The state compells kids to show up to get indoctr...er...educated, and when they comply, the courts have decided that they forfeit their rights for having done so. Makes as much sense to me as, say, Miller or Dred Scott.

People's hysterical fears of guns, drugs, or different looking people don't justify usurpation of their rights, whether a few political appointees in robes think so or not.

 

[jimpeel]

Sportcat

Where's does it say the cops went "running through the school?"

Nowhere. I was not quoting the story. I was posing a question.

Perhaps one of the below would suffice:

Do you still want cops with drawn firearms wandering through your child's school?

Do you still want cops with drawn firearms walking through your child's school?

Do you still want cops with drawn firearms meandering through your child's school?

Do you still want cops with drawn firearms roaming through your child's school?

Do you still want cops with drawn firearms ambulating through your child's school?

 

[jimpeel]

winstonsmith

If you can't blame guns for killing, then you can't blame violence on drugs. Or rap music, or tv, or video games, or anything.

I am not blaming drugs for violence. I am blaming the drug trade for the violence that is born of prohibition.

 

[Carlos]

I just saw the video and my take is that cops' conduct was outrageous.

In a facility, locked down, no escape, and running around with weapons drawn like they're raiding the crack house down the street.

I'm with you on this one, Jimpeel, all the way. Morons.

Heads need to roll.

 

[Pilgrim]

I watched the video. There was an officer with a "High-and-Tight" haircut who continually walked about with his weapon aimed at students.

I think the episode was a bit heavy handed and designed to intimidate.

It will be interesting to see if the principal keeps his job for being so supportive of the evolution.

 

[Sportcat]

Jim,

The cops were in a specific hallway, with a specific mission, and some had guns drawn.

As I stated earlier, this was not a campus-wide "assualt."

I can almost 100% guarantee that no guns were drawn until they reached the hall.

 

[cordex]

Jim,
More to the point:
"Do you want police drawing their firearms in school around children without cause at all?"

 

[Sportcat]

Video link somewhere?

 

[jimpeel]

Sportcat

Do you mean warrantless... not having a warrant, or

warrantless... nothing "warranted" a search

The cops had no lawfully issued warrant to search these kid's belongings; but the courts have held that none is needed on school property so the kids surrender their rights at the schoolhouse door -- ALL OF THEIR RIGHTS.

To take a group of people into custody on the off chance there might be a perpetrator among them is antithetical to the Constitution as written. The problem is too many people ignore the Constitution as written and simply use their own interpretation.

Is this any different than the Nazis herding people on the street aside in search of anyone who might possibly be a Jew?

Remember this: Hitler never did anything that was against the law.

 

[jimpeel]

Sportcat

I can almost 100% guarantee that no guns were drawn until they reached the hall.

And that is significant ... how? Read the posts of those who have seen the video.

 

[Sportcat]

And at Columbine a few years ago... none of those innocent kids should have been forced to leave the building with their hands-up and searched?

 

[jimpeel]

cordex

Jim,
More to the point:
"Do you want police drawing their firearms in school around children without cause at all?"

Ambiguous question. Please post something more specfic.

This sounds like you think I want the cops walking into any school they happen to enter with their firearms at low ready even if it is to deliver their child's absence note.

I know you mean otherwise but don't know what otherwise you mean.

J

 

[Augustwest]

And at Columbine a few years ago... none of those innocent kids should have been forced to leave the building with their hands-up and searched?

Since when do we equate kids selling pot with mass murder?

 

[jimpeel]

Sportcat

And at Columbine a few years ago... none of those innocent kids should have been forced to leave the building with their hands-up and searched?

Specious post.

Columbine was so very different I don't know where to begin.

At Columbine, there were bullets in the air.

The cops didn't know who was doing the shooting nor who their cohorts were.

The cops quite possibly shot Daniel Rohrbaugh to death by accident thinking he was one of the shooters. That case is still pending.

 

[cordex]

sportcat,
You don't see a difference between active shooters and some people who might have some illegal plant matter in their backpack?

FYI,

Video can be found here, I think:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/11/07/national/main582492.shtml

 

[jimpeel]

The officer at the left of the above picture has his firearm pointed at one of the students. The two at center rear and center near have theirs at low ready.

So when I say "gunpoint" I mean "GUNPOINT". Thank you officer left.

 

[jimpeel]

All

I have tried to do my duty to monitor and respond to a thread I started. I have to go for several hours to do work around here but I will be back to counter jibes and answer questions later. Not ducking the issue.

J

 

[Sportcat]

Jim,

Sir, you are correct - Officer Left has a drawn weapon pointed at a student. Perhaps Officer Left should be reprimanded? Let's not bash all cops and law enforcement for this incident.

Also, could possibly some of the student's actions warrant an officer to suspect something, and cause them to draw their weapons. Could be.

 

[Mike Irwin]

"but the courts have held that none is needed on school property so the kids surrender their rights at the schoolhouse door -- ALL OF THEIR RIGHTS."


WRONG.

There are limitations on the exercise of rights, but students are not fully stripped of their rights. You know that.


Since you're so agrieved by all of this, what have you done today to CHANGE what you perceive to be the wrongs committed?

 

[cordex]

Since you're so agrieved by all of this, what have you done today to CHANGE what you perceive to be the wrongs committed?

For one, he's tried to convince a few pseudo-statists on an online forum.

 

[Oleg Volk]

Someday (I can only hope), the images like the one above would be viewed the same way that pictures of OGPU or NKVD actions are now viewed in Russia. I can only wonder what would be reaction of a parent who'd walk in on this scene and find someone holding his kid at gunpoint. I know my first reaction would be to try to hit the "off switch" inside the perpetrator's head.

 

[KMKeller]

I watched the video. I saw a kid being spun and thrown to the ground at gunpoint. Virtually every officer save those in the middle of the hall, had his weapon trained on the kids. This is wrong. VERY wrong.