Police raid wrong house...

[Gunpacker]

These guys need search lessons.

quote: "They weren't looking for "guns in the house," they were looking for a man with a gun. The Dep. Police Chief said, "Our suspect had the weapon." unquote.

quote: "Officers kicked it in and leveled guns at him and his wife, he said. For the next two hours, the Grangers, an adult son and three teenage grandsons sat handcuffed while their home was searched, Frank Granger said."

Now maybe the PD is telling the truth, maybe not. However, I get kinda suspicious that they may have gone beyond the limits of a search warrant for "a person" when the clearing of a house takes TWO HOURS.
Seems like they may have some wrongdoing on the part of the LEOs there, even if the original address was "an honest mistake".

 

[PPGMD]

Ahh the good old "War on Drugs" or in my case the "War on teenagers with piliot licenses that flew close to the ground so they must be running drugs".

They never really buggered me when I went looking for gators in a Cessna.

Anyways this looks like a lawsuit waiting to happen. Sue the heck out of them, first to get their house in the shape that it was before it was raided and then for emotional trauma. Police departments should be discouraged from using no knock raids unless absolutely needed.

What if that old guy had a gun and shot back at the police who didn't identify themselves? To him they looked like a group of thugs trying to rob him.

 

[buzz_knox]

What if that old guy had a gun and shot back at the police who didn't identify themselves? To him they looked like a group of thugs trying to rob him.

You mean like what happened in Atlanta, when cops obtained a warrant through perjury (according to the "confidential informant" and at least one of the officers) and ended up killing an innocent elderly woman who thought she was getting robbed again?

Or the incident in Nashville, when they mistakenly raided an elderly gentleman's house and ended up killing him because he raised a shotgun (or was that just a cane) in their direction?

 

[TexasRifleman]

They never really buggered me when I went looking for gators in a Cessna.

Well I was just outside Mercedes, TX which is maybe 5 miles from Mexico.

The nice officers with the MP5Ks told me later that all they saw was me heading north, 5 miles from Mexico, 50 feet off the ground, going 150mph.

Apparantly that looks suspicious.

 

[PPGMD]

The nice officers with the MP5Ks told me later that all they saw was me heading north, 5 miles from Mexico, 50 feet off the ground, going 150mph.

Yeah that would tip them off. If you want to fly low do it further from the Mexican border or leave your transponder on, most controllers don't care if you fly low, as long as you don't get them in trouble.

Anyways back on topic.

You mean like what happened in Atlanta, when cops obtained a warrant through perjury (according to the "confidential informant" and at least one of the officers) and ended up killing an innocent elderly woman who thought she was getting robbed again?

Or the incident in Nashville, when they mistakenly raided an elderly gentleman's house and ended up killing him because he raised a shotgun (or was that just a cane) in their direction?

Those were the incidents that I was thinking of.

 

[BobCav]

Pretty soon they'll be searching for banned BOOKS!!!

The the firemen will come and burn down your house...


This is nothing but jackbooted fascism....

 

[LT1coupe]

My image of it happening to us would wind up with a dead or wounded police officer or two & dead home owners.
Door kicked in, alarm goes off, dog goes nuts, I grab the 870,the 45 & start shooting intruders with buckshot that are approaching the bedroom door until I'm dead or empty, shots are being returned, total chaos......
With the jolt of awaking to the door being breached, alarm sounding & dogs barking I can't imagine anyone being able to effectively communicate to me that they are the police.
Would anyone be suprised to hear a kick burgular yell "Police!" as he entered your home?
LEO's please be sure, I try to prepare to stop intruders, as a law abiding citizen, anyone kicking in my door I assume is a BG & I'd hate to force you to shoot me

 

[WeThePeople]

LT1:

I stand with you.

My family is ready for an unlawful entry into my house. Because I know that I have broken no laws, any such intrusion into my house would be unlawful.

 

[oobray]

Incredible quandry...

This is a horrible problem. One with concerns on both sides. Yes, there are many instances where police would put themselvs in danger by announcing thier presence. Yes, if someone burst in to my house with weapons my first instinct would be to defend myself. It's a horrible problem.
I will say this, a "no knock warrant" should never be issued so that "evidence can be saved". This is a horrible reason. So a drug dealer flushed some coke down the toilet. There have been many cases where PO's were able to get that out of the pipes. And I'm quite sure that most PD budgets would be able to swing the little tool from the hardware store that turns off the water at the curb. I also think that confidential informants have a bad enough track record in LE history that a dynamic entry warrant should never be given on thier say alone. There must be some corroberating evidence proving what the CI said is true. Even then, if they were looking for a man with a gun, the best thing would have probably been to surround the house, and let negotiators do thier thing. I know Dallas PD SWAT does this quite often.

 

[gm]

Is this what is known as an "oops" moment?


What price does one put on such "oops" moments?fixing up the damage to the house is a start and how does one fix having a loaded gun put to their head in the course of a raid,a hundred dollars,a thousand dollars?The people that experienced this must be forgiving,I would not be.

 

[ShelleyB.]

There should be SWIFT condemnation of this illegal criminal activity on the part of the "police" by the people of Elgin. Hell should be raised over this!

These misfit commandos are itching to use these tactics and it's obvious that's it has happened in too many cities, more than one too many time.

I'm afraid irresponsible actions like this will be more commonplace.

It also seems to me that in their determined search for the ghost suspect that a lot of unnecessary property damage was done.

 

[Zero_DgZ]

I agree. If the homeowners won't take it up themselves, someone nearby needs to take it up for them.

The cops that pulled off this raid should be fired. The cop that took the "tip" should be fired. The judge who signed the no-knock warrant should be fired, arrested, and imprisoned.

 

[Cesiumsponge]

From the tone and layout of the article, it is apparent that the homeowner encountered police and ran off to barracade himself again because he still thought they were invaders. That would show police never announced themselves as police.

That seems to be the case in tons of these other stories where the police swear they announced themselves before and during entry. For contrast, every family and homeowner in such a situation provides a contrary position that masked men entered without identifying themselves as police.

Then...you have the cases where armed homeowners successfully shoot some of these invading non-announcing police members, miraculously live through the event, and get charged with homocide afterwards. The last thing I expect as a law abiding citizen in the middle of the night is a SWAT team raiding me because I've done absolutely nothing wrong. First thing that would pop into anyone's mind is "holy crap, we're being robbed!"

 

[Kael]

More and more, I'm thinking the solution (as a citizen) is to make your house as hardened as possible. If they can't get in to surprise you in the first place, you have more options (and time to ID them as police).

my two cents.

 

[glockman19]

Most here have guns for HS/SD and I believe that if I heard my windows being broken & doors being kicked in the first thing I would do is grab my gun or two from the night stand and investigate. I probabaly would have been shot for exercizing not just my constitutional right but my state right to defend my home while inside from intruders.

They didn't say if they had a warrant. It sounds like they made little or no attempt to contact the owners or announce themselves as LEO. Also, Why were they searching for "GUNS" are they ilegal where this happened? Definatetly a 2A violation. Imagine if I had time to get my M1A or 870? Dead police and no more me. Scary Situation. .308 rounds can go through any vest.

 

[Sniper X]

I'm sorry, a no knock SWAT raid for "a guy with A gun?" Whats wrondg with the polic departments story? EVERYTHING!!!

 

[m44rifle]

When did judges start giving search warrants with out good evidence? Wait there was no mention of a warrant. $$$ sounds like someone hit the lottery. They can kick my door down with that kind of info, I need the retirement cash

 

[Autolycus]

I will try to find updates on this.

Remember this is an isolated incident.

 

[Art Eatman]

I have great difficulty with all this official excitement about firearms. I'd imagine that if you asked any LEO in Texas, he'd allow as how he takes it for granted that any house you go to, there's at least one gun inside.

And I regularly read about how some suspect--who's armed--is arrested peaceably and while out in public.

Sure, we have SWAT teams. Yeah, we have bad guys who seem willing to shoot. What we don't seem to have is all this irrational official worry about possession of firearms by "just us folks".

Too many nut cases being elected to public office, and appointed to high bureaucratic positions. I guess.

Art

 

[torpid]

"Some other poor guy could have had a heart attack and died because my heart about jumped out of my chest," he said. "I got a chance to see what a real criminal feels like."

No, you experienced what a law abiding citizen being aggressively treated like a criminal in his own home feels like.

 

[romma]

Remember this is an isolated incident

If I were web-site savy, I'd create a web-site called www.noknockisolatedincident.com I bet it would be loaded down...

 

[Deanimator]

I have a hard and fast rule: If you break into my home by force, I shoot you until you stop resisting. Since I keep an AR carbine [among other things] for that purpose, I probably won't know who you are until I check out your body while I'm calling the cops. If you ARE the cops and didn't ID yourself properly, shame on you.

You know what they say; it's all about staying home alive at the end of the day. "Citizen safety"...

 

[buzz_knox]

The issue of raids on innocent citizens is important enough not be derailed by discussions of how we are going to deal with home invaders of any type. Doing so will only rapidly cause this to be construed as "cop bashing" and shut down.

 

[EricTheBarbarian]

That would show police never announced themselves as police.

how do you know someone breaking in your house to kill you or otherwise isnt just yelling "police"

 

[Deanimator]

how do you know someone breaking in your house to kill you or otherwise isnt just yelling "police"

You DON'T, and that's what's wrong with the reckless overuse of no-knock warrants. It puts the victim of police error, nevermind misconduct, in a situation where he has to make the same sort of split second decisions that cops claim they have to make. The alternative is what you have in Chicago, where people who do not illegally possess guns for self-defense are passive victims of anyone who chooses to break down their doors, be they criminals, cops, criminals posing as cops, or cops behaving criminally.