POLL: Handgun Accidental & Negligent Discharges

[larryh1108]

I had one I voted as an AD. I was working on an extraction issue of a 1911 type SA pistol. It was a .22LR and the empty casing would not always extract. Of course, I was working on the extractor. When I was checking the function, I would hand cycle live ammo thru the gun. I was not comfortable with this so I removed the firing pin to cycle the rounds. I would aggressively pull the slide back and release it to simulate the auto cycle. My finger never tounched the trigger during this process. So, on the 4th or 5th round from the magazine the gun fired a round into the floor (no finger on the trigger, pointed in a safe direction, firing pin removed). I was dumbfounded. No one else was in the house and the 2 dogs looked at me like I was some kind of idiot. However, to this day I have no idea how the round was fired but I did come up with a pretty good theory. It's all I have but it makes sense to me. Can anyone else come up with a way this gun fired? I still call it an AD since there was nothing negligent about it.

 

[bigfatdave]

the extractor trainwrecked into a live round it had just failed to extract, crushing the rim and lighting it off?

 

[GLOOB]

Yes, it's not a good idea to cycle live 22 RF ammo. Aside from a faulty extractor possibly igniting it, the EJECTOR could possibly light one off on the way out, if you rack hard enough. I wonder if you checked the empty case for markings?

 

[GLOOB]

I've got no answers to this point, just speculation. Flail away...

Personally, I'm not surprised at all by the results. I think bad handling is the cause of nearly all ND's, and the lighter the trigger, the less likely you'll get away with it. So SA revolvers and SA autos are going to suffer from ND's due to a light trigger pull. Manual safeties have nothing to add, because people don't put their finger in the trigger guard without flicking off the safety first. I mean, other than that 1 in a thousand times where they forgot, and so the manual safety prevented an ID (intended discharge). OTOH, who unknowingly keeps their finger on the trigger when they're done shooting? A lot of people. Just look around next time you're at the range. I watched a guy run 30 feet between shooting stages with his finger on the trigger of his 1911 at a comp, once, and no one called it.

But the ND's we read about and make a fuss over tend to be the weird one-in-a-millions where something else is (arguably) to blame. To be blunt I don't even believe most of the "[strap/shirt/string] must have gotten in the triggerguard" stories I've heard. I'd say most of 'em are just plain CYA and outright lies by people who have every reason to. If your job and family's welfare is on the line, then it's understandable. Say what ya gots to. I won't think less of you. But I'm not going to pretend to believe it. People have been creatively diverting blame ever since the lie was invented.

I agree with other that have mentioned this poll really shows what type of action is more popular, in some respects. But it's interesting to note that in the actual posts, there's not 1 (that I've seen, yet) AD/ND that would have been stopped by a manual safety, and at least 1 where a manual safety prevented an ID (intended discharge) before indirectly causing an AD.


This gives me an idea for a new thread. "Have you ever had a handgun ND that would have been prevented by a manual safety?" I think the list would be very short.

 

[paintballdude902]

mine was a some what ND.... i had put brass in to dry fire on... and one happened to still have the primer but no powder or projectile. scared the piss out of me

 

[doc2rn]

When qualifying for a Armored Car Permit I saw a guy drop an old S&W 64 which did go off. Evidently the older hammers where just that. Also didnt help that he clearly missed the holster. I remember grabbing the young lady beside me and backing off as we saw the RO come running down from the overwatch. Evidently this was a retired LEO because they where on a first name basis, and a heated exchange insued.

 

[makarovnik]

I once owned an Auto Ordnance 1911A1, Sometimes the trigger pull was 6#, sometimes 1/2#. It sent a few down range before I got rid of it. It was brand new but had a multitude of problems.

 

[larryh1108]

It seemed to me that the extractor did not extract the live round but the slide still stripped off the next round, pushing it into the round still in the chamber. That seemed to ignite the round still in the chamber. There was no mark of any kind on the round that fired but that is the only conclusion I came up with that made any sense.

 

[henry-ctc]

My pre-b CZ75 got dropped from my hands with a full mag and a around in the chamber. It went bang. The bullet hit two walls and ended up making a nice hole in the ceiling. It´s still there to remind me not to load THAT gun untill I reach the range. And of course never think about carrying a gun that lacks firing pin safety.

 

[wlewisiii]

Single action auto ND - Colt M1911A1's in both cases. One was a Lt clearing a pistol in my arms room while BSing with another LT. The other case was an over tired Cpt who shot himself in the hand while clearing a pistol.

Once was a AD from a broken disconnector on a M1911A1 - top half sheared off and he had a seven round slam fire string. A good soldier, he kept all 7 on target. I gave him an SMG qual badge as a joke a few days later.

I do not miss the 1911.

 

[TXSWFAN]

My one and only AD/ND. Stock Colt 70 Series. Slam fire when I hit the slide release. I did have the gun pointed down, so no one got shot.

 

[exavid]

Accidental discharge with a Taurus 740 Slim. When shooting at the range the pistol emptied the magazine firing in full automatic after firing the first round. Amazingly fast cycle rate too, sounded like a wound up two stroke engine not a submachine gun. Those .40s going off in a rapid sequence made the gun push back in the hand like a fire hose, controllable but it would have been difficult to keep the gun from rising if the magazine had more rounds.

 

[Chindo18Z]

Bump. Poll is open until 12 DEC.

 

[Chindo18Z]

Another shameless bump. Poll open until 12 DEC.

I've noticed a couple of threads on very recent NDs. I hope those folks will note their experience and vote.

High volume 1911s AD/ND numbers for the win...