Powder for Cartridge Blk Powder Guns

[Driftwood Johnson]

I'm surprised you never have used fillers before. I use Cream of Wheat. For something like .45 Colt, I fill with 30 grains of powder and top off with Cream of Wheat and a grease cookie, such that you "hear the CRUNCH".

I did not say I have never used fillers. I said I used them a long time ago.

I was trying to reduce my 45 Colt loads for shooting in my 1858 Remingtons with their cartridge conversion cylinders.

The grip shape of the 1858 Remington is just different enough from the grip of a Colt that recoil with a full load of Black Powder under a 250 grain bullet was a little bit unpleasant.






And the frame where the loading lever pokes through is very thin. It concerned me running full power BP loads that might damage the frame at that weak spot.






So I experimented for a while putting a little bit of corn meal on top of my reduced powder charge in my BP 45s for the Remmie.

I also messed with lube cookies under the bullet at this time. I found that without a card between the bullet and the soft lube the lube would get glued to the base of the bullet. Then the bullet would fly like a lopsided dart, ruining accuracy. So I wound up putting in the powder, then a card to separate the lube from the powder, then the lube, then another card to separate the bullet from the lube. Way too much work! It was about this time that I discovered the Big Lube series of bullets. They carry so much soft lube on them that any of that extra stuff is not necessary. I just pour in the powder then seat the Big Lube bullet on top and compress it a little bit. So much simpler.



Fine tuning my BP loads for my Remmie also led to the development of the Big Lube J/P 45-200 bullet. I designed this bullet with the help of another Cowboy Shooter. At the time, only a 250 grain Big Lube bullet was available for 45 Colt. I designed the 200 grain bullet for loading into 45 Schofield cases. With their smaller powder capacity, only about 28.5 grains of Schuetzen FFg, and the lighter bullet, my BP Schofield loads became very comfortable to shoot in my pair of cartridge conversion Remmies.

 

[PapaG]

I've got some handguns on the cusp of the black powder era, and to be safe I'd like to load to blk powder pressures. What's a good clean modern powder?

I thought of Trail Boss, but despite it's low velocities, it seems to have smokeless pressures. The worst of both worlds.

Blackhorn 209 seems good and clean, but hard to ignite. Triple 7 is easy to light up, but dirtier. Same for Pyrodex.

What's the main thought here?

Joe

Trail Boss is NOT a bp substitute. Period. You can forget safety if you use it in a bp gun

 

[.38 Special]

Lol "Use of corrosive primates" lol just messin. .

Monkey around with guns long enough and you'll see all sorts of crazy things.

 

[.38 Special]

From Post #29, Driftwood Johnson states:

"Magnum primers are absolutely not necessary with Black Powder. I have always used standard primers for 20 years now. Black Powder ignites more easily than Smokeless powder and regular strength primers light it off just fine."

Thank you for addressing this! Any ideas where the myth that magnum primers need to be used with black powder? I have found this not to be the case for the following reasons:

1. "Black powder ignites more easily than smokeless powder", as you state. So, why should there be a need for a magnum primer to begin with?

2. When I started loading black powder rounds about 10 years ago, it was for firearms that should not require a magnum primer; in fact, I never even considered using a magnum primer, and had every single round I loaded fire properly without using a magnum primer. It was only after I had been loading black powder rounds for some time (over a year, maybe more), that I read somewhere that magnum primers should be used. No sense changing something that seems to be working, plus I have thousands of standard primers at home and no magnum primers, so why take the time and expense to purchase magnum primers, especially since the few firearms I still own modern enough to shoot smokeless powder do not require a magnum primer?

BPCR competitors found that magnum primers tend to give more consistent velocities. Mike Venturino is probably the one most responsible for popularizing the idea. It obviously doesn't make a difference in handguns, but with accurate rifles at long range, magnum primers tend to reduce vertical stringing.

 

[.38 Special]

The post, above, #41, states the following: "...real black powder was impossible to find and if you did find it there was only Goex available."

Not sure why there is a general prejudice against Goex. I have used both Goex and Old Eynsford, and I cannot discern a difference.

The important thing is at least it's black powder.

OE gives higher velocity, volume-for-volume, than Goex, at least in my Gibbs rifle. It also gives more consistent velocity for me. Swiss is better still, on both counts. Again, though, I think the value of the more expensive powders is gun-dependent. I can't think of any reason to use them in revolvers and smoothbores, for instance.

 

[sign216]

Let me bring this around to my original question. I've got several old revolvers (S+W, Hopkins, etc) that do not disassemble easily. I'm concerned about the BP residue collecting inside the mechanism, never to be cleaned, and just waiting to either corrode or gum things up.

Is BP really the best over a non-corrosive alternative, like Blackhorn209?

Joe

 

[TheOutlawKid]

Ive always wondered if they could make a black powder sub like 777, black mz, or APP without the smoke. Dont get me wrong i love the smoke and boom...but some may not like it due to not being able to shoot at most indoor ranges or hunters who can lose the direction their kill ran off too due to the cloud of smoke after taking the shot. Im really suprised someone hasnt made that type of bp sub. All the perks of low pressure and safety in antique guns etc ....just without the smoke for a smokeless powder experience.

 

[woodnbow]

Let me bring this around to my original question. I've got several old revolvers (S+W, Hopkins, etc) that do not disassemble easily. I'm concerned about the BP residue collecting inside the mechanism, never to be cleaned, and just waiting to either corrode or gum things up.

Is BP really the best over a non-corrosive alternative, like Blackhorn209?

Joe

I used to tear revolvers down to the components every time I shot them and then one day I didn’t. I just applied CLP to the mechanism through the windows for trigger, hand, and hammer. Some time later, with trembling fingers I disassembled the gun. Nothing, no rust, just black goo inside the works... Emboldened I pressed on, I didn’t strip them for many consecutive days, just cleaning the cylinders and barrels, finishing with a squirt of CLP into the works and a wipe with a CLP laden rag. I’ve been following this procedure for many years although now I pump white lithium grease in there. I may clean the guts once a year, but I may not too and I’m not concerned in the slightest.

 

[orpington]

I've pulled apart antique firearms with much black grime within. I have no way of proving that grime was black powder residue, but whatever the black grime was, it was not corrosive.

My guess is storing in a gun case or holster, especially if damp or if blood on the gun has led to more pitting than black powder ever did.

 

[sign216]

Wood and Orpington,
Thanks for letting me know your experience. Sounds like my fear is unfounded. Those H+R revolvers (etc) are hard to tear down, but sound like they might be okay w BP if treated w a spray lube.
Joe

 

[Old Stumpy]

My guess is storing in a gun case or holster, especially if damp or if blood on the gun has led to more pitting than black powder ever did.

A lot of old firearms did experience pitting in a holster over many years.
Blood rust is pure mythology though.
Why would a pistol be bloody?
Why would any owner not simply wipe off anything slopped on the gun?

 

[woodnbow]

Pitting from blood rust sounds a hell of a lot more romantic than plain old forgot to clean it...

 

[.38 Special]

I once managed to get a bit of cat urine into a foam-lined gun case without knowing it. There was no way in hell I was going to tell anyone the resultant rust spot was because my wife's cat whizzed on my gun. The story was much better when I changed "pee" to "blood" and "Fluffy" to "that mountain lion that walked through our camp".

 

[Old Stumpy]

I once managed to get a bit of cat urine into a foam-lined gun case without knowing it. There was no way in hell I was going to tell anyone the resultant rust spot was because my wife's cat whizzed on my gun. The story was much better when I changed "pee" to "blood" and "Fluffy" to "that mountain lion that walked through our camp".

Did you have any trouble explaining the sudden demise of the family cat?

 

[.38 Special]

Did you have any trouble explaining the sudden demise of the family cat?

Ha! I grumped about it a bit and my wife's response was "Well, you've got so many damned guns laying around it's a wonder any of us can pee without getting it on one!"

 

[Dustbowl]

I have learned so much from this thread. This makes me want to grab my flintlock and burn a full pound of holy black at the squirrels behind my house, just so I can clean it and apply my newfound knowledge.