PPQ v. VP9: what's the difference?

[Control]

HKGuns, please don't use the PPQ pictured to "defend your life." The spare mag seems a little off to me.

I'll agree that we have a room for improvement on poly striker fired pistol triggers. The PPQ is a serious attempt in my opinion. I just wish it had a tad heavier pull or a thumb safety. And a lower bore axis.

 

[Louca]

The only thing I wanted to add to what others have said is my experience with the triggers on the VP9 and PPQ. In short, the VP9 trigger caused pain on my finger when firing it and the PPQ did not.

A friend has a VP9 and I shot several rounds through it, trying different side and rear panels, and it consistently hurt my index finger. Some claim the trigger guard is the problem and scooping it out a little with a Dremel would fix it. I couldn't see buying a $600+ gun and immediately grinding away on it so I could shoot it. I REALLY wanted the VP9 to work for me. I own an HK 45C and love the paddle trigger release, much better than a button release. So I was gung-ho GO all the way for another HK. But my finger told me to look around at other possibilities.

I looked into a PPQ and saw the magazine release was a button, but that was on the current-production PPQ M2. But then I learned the PPQ M1 (sometimes call the Classic) had the paddle release. Then I learned you could still get the M1, but they are sort of hard to find since they have limited production. I found a gun shop that had an M1 demo so I test drove that. No finger problems at all and it worked great. So I now own the PPQ M1.

One major items to me is the Walther PPQ uses a non metal recoil spring guide rod and non metal retaining end caps.

I think Glocks also have a plastic guide rod, don't they? I can't imagine there being much stress on a guide rod.

As far as the differences in triggers, I really don't think that in competition (or I would imagine the heat of battle) the trigger difference would even matter. My HK 45C has a very long heavy initial DA pull and I never even notice it in IDPA - not at all.

Lou

 

[wild cat mccane]

The PPQ M1 is not hard to find. Online, I would say it is more plentiful than the M2.

 

[Fishbed77]

One issue that I keep hearing about with the PPQ is that the trigger is light enough and has such a short reset that inadvertent double- or triple-taps are common.

This is indeed true for the P99 and PPQ if you don't use good follow-through. It's not so much because the trigger is light (4.5 lbs for P99 and 5.5 lbs for PPQ), its just that the reset is so insanely short.

I double-tapped my P99 a few times before I began properly applying follow-through.

 

[Fishbed77]

HKGuns, please don't use the PPQ pictured to "defend your life." The spare mag seems a little off to me.

I think he seems to be confusing the marketing doofuses at Walther with the marketing doofuses at HK.

 

[pblanc]

I was interested to hear Louca's comment regarding the VP9 trigger.

A few days ago a put 50 rds through a VP9 and had the same experience of my finger getting pinched against the bottom edge of the trigger guard. This was a rental gun at a LGS with an indoor range. I mentioned it to the guy at the counter and he said it had done the same thing for him.

I was able to adjust for this by keeping my finger a bit higher on the trigger, but I really don't care to have to adjust what has worked best for me to accommodate the gun. Other than that it was a nice pistol, comfortable in the hand and a good trigger. But I also shot a full-sized Sig Sauer P320 in .40 cal S&W at the same place a few weeks earlier which I liked better. Quite a few folks have complained of trigger bite with the P320 but I had no issues at all. The P320 was more accurate for me and I thought the trigger was as good as that on the VP9, although different. The P320 medium full-sized grip module fit my hand very well, although I know lots of folks have raved about the ergonomics of the HK VP9.

 

[george burns]

I have several polymer guns, and there will be many more because that is the trend. But trends change, and someone will invent a better way of doing things just like they have thru history. 30 years ago "and more" no one knew what a polymer gun was. I know someone will argue about it as they always do, but back in the 70's you probably carried a revolver if you carried a gun for protection, And just as that evolved to this, so will this evolve to something else.
But as far as triggers go, how much more do you expect from a lever? It is pulled and a spring is released or tightened up and released here and there and a bullet comes out. It's simple mechanics, and until someone designs a digital way of accomplishing the same thing, this is what we have.
Technology will at some time replace mechanics. It has done so with just about everything we use and will ultimately do the same with firearms.
There will probably be a time in some of our lifetimes where you will be able to program your gun with your phone, adjusting all of the parameters simply by dialing them in with your cell phone. Think that is far out? wait and see in 10 years. I remember when people "including myself thought you needed a 18" woofer and 2, 8 inch midrange along with a couple tweeters to get the same sound you get now from a small digital sound system you can fit in your pocket, same goes with everything form computer controlled vehicle's we drive to the actual computers themselves. Everything must change and evolve as we go forward and learn more. Just think of how the new vehicles can alter everything from the ride and power to the steering with the push of a button. I can change my air/fuel mixture without opening the hood, things are evolving. Imagine if someone would have told us in the 60's that there would be no more carburetors, and 4 cylinder engines cold produce 400+ horsepower.

 

[nsco]

"It's simple mechanics, and until someone designs a digital way of accomplishing the same thing, this is what we have."

Not to get too far off the subject, but electronic triggers have been around for a while in competition rimfire pistols and there is even an AR trigger.

Examples of rimfire pistols:

http://www.pardini.it/weapon/news.asp?id=22

http://www.carl-walther.de/cw.php?lang=en&content=products&sub=1&subsub=13&product=1507

The AR trigger:
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/10/27/electro-mechanical-trigger/

 

[bc1023]

That sure was a long...long...long...long...long... Yawn wake me up when this guy reports something really....really...really...you know you know you know.

Maybe someone can edit it so it comes to a point with less words.
Just glad it's on the Glock forum.

Do you want details or a half-assed assessment?

Maybe next time I'll do a separate simple review for the simple-minded.

By the way, I'm glad you're NOT on GT.

 

[george burns]

The technology just is not there yet, you will see it in less than 10 years, able to withstand the recoil from modern ammo. Things like this just evolve. When someone figures out how to minimize the necessary parts and they can be made with sufficient strength to absorb the shock. It is really about miniaturization. Otherwise you will always have friction and other variants, like spring tension etc which will never allow for as smooth a trigger as is possible. As far as the PPQ and VP9 go, it really is up to the individual feeling and mechanics. Different people interpret the trigger differently. What one person feels may be completely different than what you do.
Which is why there are so many different opinions about what seems like a simple choice.
When you have different size hands, joints, and fast and slow twitch muscles along with varying feelings in the nerves in the hand arm and finger, everyone is going to feel it differently.
What fits joe doesn't feel right to mo, and so on, It's an individual thing, like picking the right baseball bat, or golf club.