PPsh in Iraq!!!!

[esldude]

http://www.murdoconline.net/archives/001913.html

Was posting in the carbine thread, how a cheap, easy to fire, carbine was so good in SHTF situations. Women, larger children, almost anyone walking can shoot one effectively at 50 yards and in. In SHTF situations, I think a whole family armed with pistol caliber carbines are better off than a family where Dad carries a big battle rifle. And other may not have anything to help out.

With less training than needed for pistols or larger rifles they are useful in hands of most people.

Then ran across this on use of a WWII Russian carbine with a 30 cal. ammo that has roughly 9mm power. Seems for house clearing and up close they find favor there too.

Russians used them to hold off and push out German troops in WWII in their cities. You could hand them out to women or older people, nearly anyone. They were cheap, and simple so large numbers could be put out there.

http://www.ppsh41.com/

Info on these short little carbines.

 

[MechAg94]

Isn't that a bit less powerful than a carbine round? I thought what made that gun effective in WWII was the volume of fire from the full auto only weapon. Might be a good option for some. I would think a 5.45X39 or 5.56 would be equally effecitve.

 

[rangerruck]

the 762 x25 round is very good, for lots of things. vel runs about 1600 fps, very fast, and it is pointed like a 9mm necked down to a 7.62. it was the first round made that penetrates body armor, and unless you have a high class body armor, it still does. it is probably faster out of a carbine bbl, so it has more pop and penetrating power than any pistol/carbine round.

 

[trickyasafox]

i'd buy it. my buddy did a tour over there and said he found a sten gun he carried as a backup. he's credible about this stuff too.

 

[esldude]

Information on the net, I don't have one of these, indicates velocities of 1500 fps and 80 gr. or so bullets. This from the 10 inch barrel of the PPsh. Light 9mm will get near these velocities from a 16 inch carbine barrel. With 110-115 gr. bullet. So I don't see how the 7.62x25 will look powerful compared to a 9mm.

Click on the link in my first post. Many take these and convert them to 9mm operation. Some convert to the Tokarev 9mm. So general power levels must be similar for this blowback design to work after the conversion.

 

[Nightcrawler]

Tokarev isn't blowback. It's a breech-locked design very similar (and partially copied from) the Browning M1911.

 

[esldude]

I didn't say the Tokarev was a blowback. The PPsh is. And is sometimes adapted to the ammo used in the Tokarev.

 

[Nightcrawler]

Ah, so you did.

In any case, I believe it. I"ve seen troops holding and using all sorts of weird weapons (in pictures from Iraq).

Apparently they've found quite a stockpile of STG-44s there. Lord only knows how those things ended up in Iraq...

 

[gazpacho]

Military Gun Supply sells a semiauto rifle version.

 

[otomik]

Apparently they've found quite a stockpile of STG-44s there. Lord only knows how those things ended up in Iraq...

Soviets capture them in WWII, they stockpile them, give a few to east german police. In the late 50's the Iraqi monarch is overthrown in a military coup, the country switches from a British allignment to a somewhat pro-Soviet allignment. The Soviets giveaway captured weapons and old weapons that no longer fit with their new weapons systems. There was also the nascent United Arab Republic Powerbloc where all members Syria, Egypt and Iraq thought it would be cool if they all had locally produced versions of the very nice looking Beretta 951.

 

[Correia]

FBMG has a PPsH. I don't know if you've held one of these things, but they are a heavy little bugger. It is also open bolt operation, when that bolt flies forward, it will disrupt your aim. Kind of awkward with the drum magazine also. Whole lot of fun though.

For the initial post, that imaginary family would be better off with a bunch of M4 type rifles than some PPsHs.

 

[Nightcrawler]

Yes Correia, but M4s can't be made in a crude machine shop and rapidly turned out in the millions, can they?

PPS-43 was actually the ultimate Soviet Submachine Gun. No wood, no machining necessary. Just stamped steel. Like their version of the Sten or Grease Gun.

As for why the troops are using the burp guns. Who knows? Thought it'd be cool, maybe? "One time in Iraq I cleared a house with as sixty year old Russian machine gun."

 

[Correia]

Touche, NC.

Get that family some stamped sheet metal AKs!

 

[MechAg94]

The US had some of its own stamped sheet metal guns. I bet if we got ourselves into a serious conventional war, we would be producing more of them.

 

[otomik]

stamped steel AR-18, the American AKM