Prediction - Please read new reloaders

[bullseye308]

speedreed, I'm very sorry to hear of your reloading related injury and wish you a complete and speedy recovery.

Best wishes,
bullseye308


The biggest problem for most new reloaders is that they just don't get enough info when they get started. They don't know just how much they don't know that they need to know. They don't know that there are forums like this one that can help them. They don't know to check the mfr's website to get load data. Think of all the stuff a newbie doesn't know and it is amazing there aren't more horror stories around. Some folks just will not allow themselves to be helped, but thr largest % will welcome any help given.

Your job, should you choose to accept it: Find those newbies and provide them quality instruction, safety guidelines, point them to whatever resources that will help them, make them read and ask questions, then shoot in the lane next to them with no fear. This message will self destruct in 10, 9, 8....

 

[mcdonl]

And BTW, in the reloader magazine there was a test a few years ago about magnum primers vs normal primers and they showed pressure variances up to dangerous levels. Conclusion: they said use what the manufacturer says. It is your gun and your fingers...

OK, here is a prefect example of what I was talking about. Some very well respected people on this board, in my opinion THE reloading authority said that starting with the minimum load and working my way up would be safe.

I studied Pressures (I even delved into the PSI vs CUP discussions....) looked in all of my books, and all of the resources. Determined that my guns (All of which are rated for +P loads) would safely handle the magnum primer. Not even close on the 38/357

So, you wouldn't do this but to infer that I do not care about my fingers and that I am taking a risk is like saying... you shouldn't ride a motorcycle because you could get hurt.

All of the loads that I run through my 9mm's are well under the maximum pressures that my guns will handle, and to be perfectly honest I have one load that I cannot match the accuracy on and it is with magnum primers. I may be a new reloader but I am not going to do something that will put myself at risk. But, I am willing to think outside the box a little and experiment in a safe way. I did, it was successful and I would recommend it to anyone who asked.

 

[LiveLife]

I have three books, and have NEVER found a load that applies to the supplies and materials I am using

When I started reloading, this was the case for me too. I asked my reloading mentor who taught me to reload about this and he politely told me, "If you are not a chef, just follow the recipes - Once you become a great chef, you can make your own recipes." After 15+ years, I am nowhere close to making my own reloading recipes.

The published load datas exist because of extensive testing done by manufacturers they deemed to be safe at the advisement of their technical engineers/legal counselors. Other bullet/OAL/powder/primer combinations may work out ok, but then YOU become the tester risking YOUR equipment and body parts.

Over the years, I have made many mistakes and still do (I am human). I had too many, "Boy, that was close" moments so I do not push my loads past the published max data (powder charge and OAL). I have seen many others who try to do the superhuman feats only to see their guns in pieces and hands/arms injured (some permanently).

Shooting and reloading is a fun enjoyable hobby. Stay within the published data and it will continue to be fun and enjoyable. YMMV

What data in a book is not available online, on bullet/powder manufacturer web site? Error in a book is uncorrectable, that is why you have to collect many editions. At the other side, typos in online data, once detected, can be easily corrected.

I keep my own master load data table of "pet load" recipes for components I use regularly. I update this table based on several references in print and online manufacturers' websites. When I come across new load data that is different than old data, I consider the option that the powder manufacturer may have modified their powder recipe and reflect the updates in my own table (better to error on the side of safety).

 

[mcdonl]

Great post BDS...

I am not a great chef, but I am smart enough to understand when you can add a slice of ham to a grilled cheese

 

[Tilos]

New Reloaders: find a mentor or take a class

A local guy gives classes once a month and is booked way ahead.
He charges about what 2 boxes of ammo costs and you load a box of ammo for yourself during the class!
His hand-out info is worth the price of the class.
He now has broken it into two classes, one for rifle, one for pistol.

ATTENTION FELLOW RELOADING GEEZERS:

Think about starting your own business and doing this
Get out of the rat race and do something you enjoy.

Sorry, I didn't read the 5 pages of post in this thread so apoligize if it has been said before.

Tilos

 

[mcdonl]

Tilos, thats awesome!

A guy around here (Southern Maine) gives a class, but he charges $250 and you get to take away one box of 50 rounds. I would have done it if it were much cheaper.

I am a good self learner, well versed in the search button and like to ready charts and graphs but taking a class would have been cool.

There are also many good video's on Youtube... I mean there is a video of a guy sticking 16 quarters in his nose on youtube too, so it is not always a good source of ideas but some of the stuff on there is good

 

[helg]

What data in a book is not available online, on bullet/powder manufacturer web site? Error in a book is uncorrectable, that is why you have to collect many editions. At the other side, typos in online data, once detected, can be easily corrected.

I keep my own master load data table of "pet load" recipes for components I use regularly. I update this table based on several references in print and online manufacturers' websites. When I come across new load data that is different than old data, I consider the option that the powder manufacturer may have modified their powder recipe and reflect the updates in my own table (better to error on the side of safety).

I use QuickLoad as a master source of data, and check that the data are adequate against online data when starting new powder or new caliber. According to the OP, I am doing wrong, as I do not have reloading manuals. What danger should I be worried?

 

[DRYHUMOR]

I was shooting next to a guy years ago in a match, that had a minor "expolsion" within his M1a. He was a reloader, prob a primer out just a pinch too far.

He ended up with a patch on his eye and did not finish the match. He was lucky in that he was wearing his safety glasses at the time. He could have been blinded.

He was an experienced reloader, and he was careful, and still he got hurt.

Something to think about.

 

[LiveLife]

helg - I use QuickLoad as a master source of data ... According to the OP, I am doing wrong, as I do not have reloading manuals. What danger should I be worried?

helg, I think as long as most current load data is used, that's fine. My own pet loads were based on older "paper" references long before the online factory references were available. They are now updated with information from factory online websites. You gotta love the computer and internet - all the reloading load data at your finger tips.

 

[ranger335v]

"He was an experienced reloader, and he was careful, and still he got hurt."

Experience is a vague thing. I know some guys who have ten years of experience, some others who have six months of experience they've repeated twenty times; meaning experience only helps if we are thinking and still learning.

Many of those who've cranked out thousands of rounds of the same load on a progressive for years may have no more understanding of what they're doing than some curious newbies who've only reloaded for a year. No "careful" reloader is going to need a patch for his eye from a slam fire.

 

[LiveLife]

Knowledge is gained from experience.

Experience is gained from making many mistakes and lived to tell about it.

Mistakes are made when you don't have enough knowledge.

It's the circle of reloading life. Life is too short for me to reinvent it - it's much safer and faster to adapt knowledge and experience of others so I don't have to make the same mistakes ... isn't that one of reasons why THR exists?


Darn, my dog just gave me that "Huhhh???" look.

 

[USSR]

Experience without common sense and intelligence is meaningless. I know a guy with more than 20 years experience that lacks both and is a constant danger to himself IMHO.

Don

 

[Ateam-3]

I think this is a great thread that has spurred a lot of thought and many replies. There has been a wealth of good information brought here. I have been reloading for 30+ years so I am not 'fresh off the turnip truck'. Even so, I do not think I know everything and I still learn new things daily. I like to think that there are safety considerations made for the likelihood that people may substitute components as they choose. While I do not advocate deviating from the recipes that are published, careful substituting and load development does occur at many reloading benches. This contributes to our 'pet loads' that we lay claim to.

Whether new to the game or experienced, I think it is crucial that we maintain our diligence in checking and rechecking throughout the handloading process. Knowledge and experience both contribute to our many successes with handloading, but they are not the only parts of the equation. I think we must maintain our attention to detail and minimize our distractions. After all, someday we might be introducing others to this element.

 

[DIM]

Anyone wants to make quick money, then publish Handloading for Dummy's, hey look you might be next millionaire ;-) and I will sue you since idea was all mine :-D

 

[BeerSleeper]

Anyone wants to make quick money, then publish Handloading for Dummy's, hey look you might be next millionaire ;-) and I will sue you since idea was all mine :-D

Can I write the Prologue?

"How to write your will, and who should get your guns..."

 

[oneounceload]

As an older curmudgeon who started reloading about 30 years ago, before internet experts, I learned by buying the manual (typically Speer, Sierra or Hornady) and following the recipes. Since we weren't interested in reloading 6 bazillion rounds for an hour at the "spray and pray range", we reloaded on single stage presses, inspecting everything we did as we went along...........and wow, no one I have ever shot with who learned like that has EVER had a problem. We didn't have the internet to rely on, we had published data to work with. We didn't load to shoot 1,000's of rounds per day - we reloaded for accuracy first, velocity second, and quantity wasn't even in the calculation.

We also didn't look at the data and start to think, "how can I make this go twice as fast with twice the pressure"; we accepted the limitations of the cartridge in question, and if we wanted a lot more, we went to a larger cartridge.

I guess, to summarize, for all you new shooters - don't be in a rush to crank out thousands of rounds in an hour, do follow recipes, do pay attention to every aspect of what is happening, don't assume because you read it on the net that it is true - use common sense, stay safe, and you'll have fun.

I have loaded pistol, rifle and shotgun ammo for decades - luckily, in all of the hundreds of thousands of rounds, I can count my "oops" on one hand with NO dangerous issues.

Patience and being methodical pays dividends

stay safe

 

[DIM]

Can I write the Prologue?

"How to write your will, and who should get your guns..."

I know that one my wife will sell them for scrap to the local pawn shop

 

[shootinxd]

I was lucky enough to have a freind that had reloaded for years,2 books,and this forum to walk me thru my first loads.I will never know all.I stick well within SAFE loads!

 

[jim147]

Experience without common sense and intelligence is meaningless. I know a guy with more than 20 years experience that lacks both and is a constant danger to himself IMHO.

Don

If we could only sell common sense we would be rich.

jim

 

[sig220mw]

I know a guy who brags about the fact that he has never read a book.

That's just plum scary and I sure wouldn't ever admit it much less brag about it.

Having said that, as many of you have said, just looking at the internet alone will not suffice. That's why it's best to own 2 or 3 or more reloading manuals so as to have a frame of reference.

I guess I'm lucky because I read about reloading all of the time and I started reloading 18 or 19 years ago. I say I'm lucky because I still find it interesting enough to still want to read about.

If any guys new to reloading aren't interested enough in it to be safe then they should not even try.

I guess they are in too much of a hurry. As some one said in an earlier post, you don't need to worry about volume so much as quality. Heck I never have more than about 20 or so rounds of any of the calibers I load loaded and ready. The fact that I can load more if needed is good enough for me. I'm much more interested in having a sufficient amount of components on hand.

 

[LiveLife]

Buy several books and put one in each bathroom. In a few weeks, you'll be well read.

 

[helg]

I know a guy who brags about the fact that he has never read a book.

That's just plum scary and I sure wouldn't ever admit it much less brag about it.

Having said that, as many of you have said, just looking at the internet alone will not suffice. That's why it's best to own 2 or 3 or more reloading manuals so as to have a frame of reference.

I guess I'm lucky because I read about reloading all of the time and I started reloading 18 or 19 years ago. I say I'm lucky because I still find it interesting enough to still want to read about.

If any guys new to reloading aren't interested enough in it to be safe then they should not even try.

I stated above in the thread that I do not have a paper reloading book. It is perfectly clear that 18-19 years ago with no online reloading information, this might be a problem. Though, load data that come with every set of Lee dies even that time, and a technique to work up a load still made the process safe.

Please, tell me, what I am missing with the paper books? What should I be afraid of without the books?

 

[mcdonl]

Please, tell me, what I am missing with the paper books? What should I be afraid of without the books?

Helg, I am a new reloader. Also, like I said before I never never found a perfect match for my materials in any of the books but I stay very close.

I like the books because a) I like to read and b) I like to read in the bathroom.

But I agree, I have never found anything in the books I couldn't find on line, I just like books.

we reloaded on single stage presses, inspecting everything we did as we went along...........and wow, no one I have ever shot with who learned like that has EVER had a problem.

Thats what I do. I like to inspect every round. I load more then I shoot, so my output is plenty.

 

[Duckdog]

Now throw in reduced loads for cast bullets and chances are you'll never find enough data, or will you have the exact bullet that is used in the published data. Guys like Richard Lee have been a god-send for calculating reduced loads. Like was said abouth a zillion times before, pay attention and over time you'll learn what you can and can't get away with.

 

[mongoose33]

Please, tell me, what I am missing with the paper books? What should I be afraid of without the books?

Well, let's see: Blown up gun, bulged barrel, damaged fingers and hands, loss of eyesight....those are the things you're trying to avoid.

It's called the internet, not the infallible-net. The thing about printed sources from bullet or powder companies is that they have a clear and vested interest in making sure their information is valid and reliable. When someone puts something into print, the quality-control process can be presumed to be better.

Some random source on the internet? Not so much.

That doesn't mean the internet is useless, but it's better used once one has the experience to tell what's garbage and what's not.

Here's an example. You're aware of Pi, correct? It's the ratio of circumference of a circle to its diameter. And Pi, as everybody knows from school, is 3.41.

Right? Pi = 3.41. Everybody knows this.

That has to be correct, right? It's on the internet, and *I* wrote it there.

Pi = 3.41.

Ever make a typo online? Ever misstate something because you were distracted in composing it? Do you want to place your eyes, ears, digits, guns, and life at the mercy of how focused someone writing something on the internet was when they composed it?

Not me.

The internet is the greatest source of information of all time. It's also potentially the most suspect. Anybody can write anything. Experienced reloaders can tell when something looks out of whack; new reloaders not so much.

So, it's up to every newbie reloader to decide just how much risk they want to take in the reloading process.

Me, I'd rather get it right, even if it takes a bit more money and a bit more time.


BTW: The number I posted above for Pi is obviously wrong. The correct value for Pi, as everyone knows, is 5.347.

I think.