Preferred Moving Method w/Re-Engagement Using DA/SA Handgun?

[TigerCreek]

I have my own range and I'm setting up an area for tactical practice.
A question popped up when setting up new firing positions for different targets.
When shooting and moving to a new firing position with a double/single action handgun, what is the preferred method to move and re-acquire the target?
My concern is with the DA/SA being "hot" and ready to fire after the first shot.
Is it common practice to de-cock before you move?
I appreciate any thoughts or opinions on this.

 

[Jeff White]

I always place weapons on safe before moving unless I am practicing shooting while moving. When we were issued S&W 5906s we would place the weapon on safe (decocking) before moving. You are already training to make your first shot from a draw in DA mode so I don't think it makes a difference making your first shot from a new position in DA mode.

The safety factor from moving with a weapon on safe greatly outweighs any advantage you might gain from making your next shot SA.

 

[TigerCreek]

Completely agree.
Safety is always my first consideration.
Just didn't know if there might be some equally safe method that I hadn't considered.
My DAOs and revolvers are not an issue but my P220 opened my eyes to the reality of the situation I was creating.

 

[Old Dog]

We train with our issue striker-fired pistols that have no manual safety. During movement on the square range, unless holstered, the pistol is held in position Sul, a low ready (careful to keep muzzle from pointing at/near one's partner) or a compressed low ready -- all with the trigger finger straight along the frame ("indexed"). Really, the key is mostly keeping one's finger off the trigger ... Another concern is the training level of anyone sharing your range with you.

 

[1911 guy]

Old Dog hit on the biggest point. Get your finger off the trigger unless in the act of firing a shot. Habitually. Second nature. Booger hook off the bang switch.

Closely behind that is the point made by Jeff. If the handgun has a safety, use it. I use a 1911, to the exclusion of any other handgun type. That safety gets a workout once in a while. If my feet are moving and I'm not shooting, the safety goes on.

Muzzle awareness trumps all these, though. If you screw the pooch with everything else and have a ND, muzzle awareness will prevent it from being an unintentional shooting of another person or property damage.

 

[Plan2Live]

Four replies and you have all the answers anyone is going to come up with. Any responses beyond what has been offered will be re-hash.

Congrats on committing to training with a DA/SA. Great platform.

 

[MedWheeler]

^^ Yep. Old Dog's response, in addition, covers all handgun types and actions.

 

[TigerCreek]

Thanks y'all.

 

[Corpral_Agarn]

I shoot DA/SA almost exclusively and I use the 'Old Dog' style technique.

I do not de-cock when moving.

If my gun is out-and-about the benefit of that long heavy DA is no longer relevant.
Now the gun is in my hands, where I have positive control, and my finger is off the trigger until I am engaging a target.

The only time I de-cock is for re-holstering. Which is something that you should probably practice as well under a time clock or some such.

 

[ilbob]

I am not sure whatever benefit there is safety wise to decocking is worth it. Modern DA/SA pistols are no more likely to fire if they are cocked as if they are decocked other than the longer pull. Take finger off trigger then move.

For a SA pistol like a 1911, it seems appropriate to me to safe it before moving.

I think one of the problems with this type of question is that the exact type of pistol makes a difference in how it is answered.

 

[Plan2Live]

Corpral Agarn said:

The only time I de-cock is for re-holstering. Which is something that you should probably practice as well under a time clock or some such.

Aside from full on tactical training, is there ever a reason to rush the re-holstering process? I teach our state's concealed weapons class and we teach the opposite, take your time re-holstering.

 

[Jeff White]

Safety on/safety off has been a discussion in military and LE circles for years.

I have always followed the practice of safety on when moving unless I was actually shooting and moving.

A lot of people say that with Glock pistols and their clones that there is no safety. That's incorrect, the little lever in the trigger is the safety. You activate the safety on those type of pistols by keeping your finger off the trigger and out of the trigger guard. If you drop a Glock or other striker fired pistol of that design the lever in the trigger is supposed to keep it from firing, the same way a safety on other pistols do. It works! I've seen Glocks dropped and even thrown, they don't fire.

Other designs are pretty drop safe, but why take the chance. Your typical DA/SA pistol does not have any mechanical device to keep it from firing if it is cocked. The S&W DA/SA models have a magazine disconnect but that's not applicable to the situation the OP asked about.

I would rather err on the side of caution, with training I see no disadvantage to decocking before moving. I also don't see that much of a danger dropping a cocked weapon in most cases. But it is more hazardous then dropping one that's been decocked.

No one plans on dropping their weapon or tangling up their feet and tripping, but it does happen. Why take the chance of an ND?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Predator55]

None of my guns that I carry have safties. I don't want to screw myself in a SD situation and forget to flip it off. There is a video of a jewler who draws on a robber and forgets to flip his safety off, which caused him to be shot multiple times and the robber to get away. Sul is the proper way to train, your finger is the safety.

 

[Corpral_Agarn]

Corpral Agarn said: Aside from full on tactical training, is there ever a reason to rush the re-holstering process? I teach our state's concealed weapons class and we teach the opposite, take your time re-holstering.

I could see how that could be misinterpreted.

I was NOT advocating holstering quickly. I teach the same as you in my CCW and defensive classes. There is no award for the fastest holster-er.

What I meant was to practice hitting the de-cocker before holster while under stress, where you might forget to hit the de-cocker. Say in competition.

If you do not practice, you may forget that and the results could be disastrous.

 

[Deaf Smith]

When I move.. and are being shot at, I jump into the air with a flying belly flop, firing both guns, then do a roll on my left shoulder and somersault to get behind cover while shooting my guns sideways.

Finger position? Where it's supposed to be! Where else?

Deaf

 

[Jeff White]

None of my guns that I carry have safties. I don't want to screw myself in a SD situation and forget to flip it off. There is a video of a jewler who draws on a robber and forgets to flip his safety off, which caused him to be shot multiple times and the robber to get away.

Sounds like the jeweler didn't train with his weapon. If you train to use the safety then you won't need to worry about not remembering to use it. It's all in how many reps you are willing to do to become unconsciously competent with your weapon.

Sul is the proper way to train, your finger is the safety.

I was wondering how long it would take someone to use that old line from Black Hawk Down. It's generally not a good idea to make what you think is a definitive statement about something that isn't a hard and fast safety rule. Every technique isn't applicable to every shooter in every situation. Saw an ND in the Army where a soldier got tangled up in the brush and something, either his equipment or the brush got into the trigger guard of his M16 and a round was fired. Fortunately it was just a blank, but his finger was nowhere near the trigger. Weird things can and do happen.

 

[TigerCreek]

When I started this thread the specific handgun use I was questioning was my early eighties Sig P220 DA/SA.
These .45s have no external safety and use a decocking lever instead.
I've always opted for decocking but I was interested to explore other opinions.

 

[luzyfuerza]

As pointed out above, proper trigger finger index and muzzle awareness are fundamental, regardless of platform.

One issue that you should consider is at what point in your handgun presentation you normally engage and disengage your safety. This varies between trainers.

For example, Gunsite teaches that a safety should be disengaged during step three, the rotate step (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBcdQhTOPY8). If you follow this protocol, then the safety is disengaged and the gun is ready to fire any time that it is pointed at the target (from retention position, during the slap, and while the gun is being extended toward the target). The safety is re-engaged while the muzzle is being rotated back down from retention position in preparation for reholstering.

By contrast, others (e.g. Frontsight) teach that the safety should be dis-engaged later in the presentation, for example while the gun is being extended from retention. Under these protocols, the safety/decocker is manipulated BEFORE the muzzle is rotated down in preparation for reholstering.

These are subtle, but important differences.

If you have trained to do your presentation using the Gunsight approach, then you should stick with this method and only manipulate your safety/decocker during reholstering. If you follow another method, manipulate these levers at a time that is consistent with your chosen approach.

I personally prefer Gunsite's approach to safety manipulation, particularly when using guns like a 1911. Others, however, as you've seen above in this thread, prefer to manipulate a safety/decocker much more frequently.

Consistency is the thing that really matters. Decide which approach you're going to use, and stick with it, whether having fun on your home range, in competition, in training, or in a fight!

 

[9mmepiphany]

When I carried a SIG 220, also the 226, as a duty gun, we were always taught to decock before moving between positions. Part of this had to do with varying levels of proficiency and also the expectation of moving in close quarters under stress.

Once learned and practiced, it is easy to remember and doesn't require any new skills to reengage a target.

A 1911 is a slightly different beast. I was taught to reengage the thumb safety anytime I moved or reloaded (obviously not with an empty chamber)...this has no effect, on speed or accuracy, in reengaging a target either