Private individual shipping a handgun to a dealer

[mgkdrgn]

Won't your dealer let it sit on his shelf for a little while until you get it straightened out? It's a gun, not a car, and it doesn't take up much space. It sounds like he's in somewhat of a hurry.

The problem is, if he has it for more than 24 hours, it MUST go in his bound book ... and he doesn't want it in his bound book unless he can verify the source of the firearm.

I can not for the life of me understand why the seller has a problem coughing up a copy of their drivers license. Unless, of course, the seller has "issues", which may well be the case in this scenario.

 

[nalioth]

I can not for the life of me understand why the seller has a problem coughing up a copy of their drivers license. Unless, of course, the seller has "issues", which may well be the case in this scenario.

Legally, it doesn't make a flip if the sender has "issues", only the recipient.

 

[mgkdrgn]

Legally, it doesn't make a flip if the sender has "issues", only the recipient.

Ya, tell that to the BATFE for me when they are here asking me why I can't verify the source of this gun on my books.

 

[nalioth]

Legally, it doesn't make a flip if the sender has "issues", only the recipient.

Ya, tell that to the BATFE for me when they are here asking me why I can't verify the source of this gun on my books.

My point was: The sender can be a heinous criminal, and it won't affect the receiving FFL holder or the buyer (as if the receiving FFL would know the sender's personal situation, anyway).

 

[dogtown tom]

mgkdrgn Quote:

Originally Posted by dogtown tom
Don't worry about this....your dealer cannot legally return the firearm to a nonlicensee.

He CAN however, refuse to transfer the firearm to you untill the seller provides him with identification.

But he -can- refuse to accept the delivery, and then it's returned to sender by the carrier. I've done that when a firearm was sent to me that isn't legal in this state...

Refuse deliveries from who?

The great majority of packages I get from FFL's have nothing on the outside of the box to indicate that an FFL shipped the package.

If you routinely refuse deliveries from valid FFL's get ready to be blacklisted in pretty short order by other FFL's, not to mention losing all your transfer business. If an FFL payed to ship a firearm to you, you refuse it, UPS/FedEx/USPS will charge him return shipping. Not to mention the aggravation to your customers.

mgkdrgn Quote:

Originally Posted by nalioth
Legally, it doesn't make a flip if the sender has "issues", only the recipient.

Ya, tell that to the BATFE for me when they are here asking me why I can't verify the source of this gun on my books.

Where in the ATF regulations does it state that such verification from nonlicensee's is required? It doesn't. All that is required is the name and address of the person from whom the firearm was acquired. Nowhere in ATF regs is it stated that you must have a copy of the nonlicensee's drivers license as verification of identity.

Requiring shippers who are nonlicensee's to include a copy of their drivers license is a business policy- not a Federal requirement.

 

[usp9]

Requiring shippers who are nonlicensee's to include a copy of their drivers license is a business policy- not a Federal requirement.

After the 9/11 terrorists were found to have used Virginia I.D.s, it became illegal to copy a Virginia driver license for any purpose other than auto related and even then it is limited. Puts Virginians in a bad spot sometimes as many people ask for copies.

To the OP,
A bill of sale should suffice. Was one included?

 

[woad_yurt]

The problem is, if he has it for more than 24 hours, it MUST go in his bound book....

If that's the case, the 24 hours in this guy's case has come and gone. I wonder what's doing now.

About the 24 hour thing: I have a friend in NYC; there, they register each handgun. It seems to be common practice for dealers to receive handguns and have them for some time while the buyer gets all of his city handgun red tape squared away. Sometimes that takes weeks and it never a mere day. How are dealers doing this?

Anna's Dad: Keep us updated, ok?

 

[dogtown tom]

woad_yurt:...About the 24 hour thing: I have a friend in NYC; there, they register each handgun. It seems to be common practice for dealers to receive handguns and have them for some time while the buyer gets all of his city handgun red tape squared away. Sometimes that takes weeks and it never a mere day. How are dealers doing this?

Dealers do it the same way all across the US. Whenever a firearm is received by the dealer he has until close of business the next day to log the firearm into his bound book (it's not 24 hours). How long it takes the customer to actually come and pick up the firearm has no bearing on the dealer recording the aquisition.

 

[woad_yurt]

Thank you for that info.

 

[mgkdrgn]

Refuse deliveries from who?

The great majority of packages I get from FFL's have nothing on the outside of the box to indicate that an FFL shipped the package.

If you routinely refuse deliveries from valid FFL's get ready to be blacklisted in pretty short order by other FFL's, not to mention losing all your transfer business. If an FFL payed to ship a firearm to you, you refuse it, UPS/FedEx/USPS will charge him return shipping. Not to mention the aggravation to your customers.

I refused -a- (as in one) delivery from an FFL who was shipping me a gun that was ILLEGAL in my state. The client on this end called and said this gun (a Jennings 9mm in this case) was on it's way. Well, I can't transfer him that gun, or have it on my books, or on my premises. I knew where it was coming from, and when it got here I refused it.

I assume you would be happier if I accepted the gun, did the transfer, lost my FFL, lost my $10K bond to SLED, lost my business license, paid the fine and did the jail time for a $20 transfer?

 

[mgkdrgn]

Where in the ATF regulations does it state that such verification from nonlicensee's is required? It doesn't. All that is required is the name and address of the person from whom the firearm was acquired. Nowhere in ATF regs is it stated that you must have a copy of the nonlicensee's drivers license as verification of identity.

Requiring shippers who are nonlicensee's to include a copy of their drivers license is a business policy- not a Federal requirement.

Nowhere.

But if someone I =do not know from jack squat= isn't willing to provide me with a minimal bit of proof of who they are, then I choose not to do business with them ... particularly in this business. A $20 transfer simply isn't worth the world of sh*t that could rain down on me for not taking a very reasonable measure to know who I'm dealing with.

If you are willing to accept guns from Joe Blow Unknown, then more power to you, have fun.

 

[Anna's Dad]

Just to close the loop, it took several more days but the seller finally sent me a copy of his ID and the FFL released the gun to me!

 

[dogtown tom]

mgkdrgn Quote:

Originally Posted by dogtown tom
Refuse deliveries from who?

The great majority of packages I get from FFL's have nothing on the outside of the box to indicate that an FFL shipped the package.

If you routinely refuse deliveries from valid FFL's get ready to be blacklisted in pretty short order by other FFL's, not to mention losing all your transfer business. If an FFL payed to ship a firearm to you, you refuse it, UPS/FedEx/USPS will charge him return shipping. Not to mention the aggravation to your customers.

I refused -a- (as in one) delivery from an FFL who was shipping me a gun that was ILLEGAL in my state. The client on this end called and said this gun (a Jennings 9mm in this case) was on it's way. Well, I can't transfer him that gun, or have it on my books, or on my premises. I knew where it was coming from, and when it got here I refused it.

I assume you would be happier if I accepted the gun, did the transfer, lost my FFL, lost my $10K bond to SLED, lost my business license, paid the fine and did the jail time for a $20 transfer?

So......what will you do when the client DOESN'T call to tell you what is inbound? That was the point of my reply that you've sidestepped. Again, without knowing what is in the box, how will you know which packages to refuse?

mgkdrgn Quote:

Originally Posted by dogtown tom
Where in the ATF regulations does it state that such verification from nonlicensee's is required? It doesn't. All that is required is the name and address of the person from whom the firearm was acquired. Nowhere in ATF regs is it stated that you must have a copy of the nonlicensee's drivers license as verification of identity.

Requiring shippers who are nonlicensee's to include a copy of their drivers license is a business policy- not a Federal requirement.

Nowhere.

But if someone I =do not know from jack squat= isn't willing to provide me with a minimal bit of proof of who they are, then I choose not to do business with them ... particularly in this business. A $20 transfer simply isn't worth the world of sh*t that could rain down on me for not taking a very reasonable measure to know who I'm dealing with.

If you are willing to accept guns from Joe Blow Unknown, then more power to you, have fun.

Right. And that is my point, there is no such ATF requirement. Yet in your response to nalioth you imply that ATF would require such verification.

mgkdrgn Quote:
Ya, tell that to the BATFE for me when they are here asking me why I can't verify the source of this gun on my books.

As there is no ATF regulation requiring a drivers license, why the heck are you fearful of what ATF might ask?

I too, ask nonlicensees to include a DL copy with the firearm shipment. But I'm not going to stretch the truth by implying it's a ATF requirement. It is simply a business policy.

 

[mgkdrgn]

So......what will you do when the client DOESN'T call to tell you what is inbound? That was the point of my reply that you've sidestepped. Again, without knowing what is in the box, how will you know which packages to refuse?

I will package the thing back up, and have the post office remove it the next day back to the sending FFL, before it has to go on my books. Call to the FFL it's going back to and to the prospective buyer. I'll gladly eat the postage as opposed to going to jail.

If and -individual- has sent me an illegal handgun, AND they can't get to me, by the end of the next business day, an FFL to ship it back to (I can't send it back to them), then I won't have much choice but to turn the gun over to SLED, who will likely destroy it.

I can't have it on my premises, I can't put it in my book, I can't complete the transfer, and I can't return it to the sender.

I didn't make the laws that make some handguns illegal in SC. But, if I'm going to stay in business, and out of jail, I must follow them. Here, in addition to being an FFL, I also must have a South Carolina Retail Pistol permit. It's a bit more restrictive (putting it mildly) than standard BATFE rules, and I have to post a $10,000 bond to get it.