problem with an AR-type rifle

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thunderbyrd

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this query is a bit vague. i am hoping to get more info later, but here's what i've got for now. my friend bought an AR from a pawnshop, either 223 or 556. he took it out and shot it and the case of the 1st round hung up in the chamber and won't come out. he doesn't have a rod to tap it out and is going to try to bring it up to me this week.
i'm not too knowledgeable about this type of gun. what i want to know is this what happens when you mix 223 vs 556? i can't think of another reason this would happen.
 
Not enough information, but here's some questions:
What brand Ar or upper?

Does the barrel have ".223 only" stamped on it?
If the barrel says 5.56 or 223 Wylde ,then there's absolutely no problem using .223.
If it only has ".223" stamped, it is still unlikely that it can't use 5.56 unless it's an older gun. Without knowing brand of upper/barrel, it's uncertain. There is a ton of misinformation on the internet about .223 vs 5.56, but there are very few guns that will not accept both.

What ammo?
Was it steel cased ammo?
I've had a couple thru the years like a DPMS that wouldn't shoot steel case ammo until gun was broken in with a few hundred rds of brass ammo.
Is the round still captured by the extractor or is the bolt all the back with rd still in chamber?
 
This is a common problem caused by people ignoring the warnings in instructions that state "do not shoot steel cased ammunition" in these AR's! Steel cases have a lacquer applied to the cases to stop them from rusting, and when fired the case gets hot and the lacquer builds up in the chamber until it starts sticking cases. The gun needs to have the chamber cleaned with a chamber brush and something hot like acetone. It may even take a chamber reamer to lightly clean the lacquer out if acetone and a chamber brush wont fix it.
Cases should come out with a quality cleaning rod, and a sharp blow with a mallet or hammer on the rod. If it doesn't, then use a heat shrink gun, or a woman's hair dryer on high to heat up the chamber area first and loosen the lacquer before trying a second hit with a cleaning rod.
Be sure not to get the acetone on any plastic parts, or it will melt them! I've fixed several of these AR's when guys ignored the warnings about steel cases.
 
Get a broken shell extractor and pull it out, sometimes you just have to muscle it.

You can try tapping it out with a cleaning rod, if you can get a bite on it.
 
This is really vague, but what you have to deal with first is a stuck casing. You can disassemble the rifle, then put some kroil or other lubricant into the chamber to hopefully loosen up the stuck case. Let it sit for at least a few hours or even overnight. Be careful not to damage the muzzle if you have to drive the casing out with a cleaning rod.
 
Adding to the things that would help.
Pictures of the labels you find on the guns upper.
Pictures of the labels on the box of ammo you used.
Close up of the chamber with round stuck in it.

I have an upper made by a well known smith. Sellier & Bellot ammo would stick in the chamber every time.
It was a match chamber. 2 cents. I didn't know enough at the time to figure it out.
Just never used it again, never had a problem.

​

 
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Mk-211 said:
Get a broken shell extractor and pull it out, sometimes you just have to muscle it.

You can try tapping it out with a cleaning rod, if you can get a bite on it.
Click to expand...
I didn't read the shell was broken
 
i thank everybody who's attempting to help. i know i haven't given enough info. my friend lives 50 miles away and i don't think he has internet access.

i doubt if he's ever even heard of steel cased ammo. if he can get it up here to me in the next few days i can post some useful information. he doesn't even know what brand it is.
 
thunderbyrd said:
(W)hat i want to know is this what happens when you mix 223 vs 556?
Click to expand...
Nothing happens, unless something else is so far gone that a failure is incipient.

The difference between .223Rem and 5.56NATO is real in SAAMI vs CIP, but the effect size is basically a rounding error. The hottest compliant 5.56NATO in the shortest .223Rem chamber might produce some excessive ejector wipe and pin hole extrusion, but it won't seize the gun.
thunderbyrd said:
(I) can't think of another reason this would happen.
Click to expand...
Really? At least: ammo, extractor, extractor spring, gas system, chamber.
 
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The why would anyone buy an AR of unknown history from a pawn shop part is over. Certainly not when they're dirt cheep.

Nows a good time to learn how to tear down and clean EVERY part there is. Clean the barrel back to new from both ends. Not with a bore snake. Rebuild the bolt . Replace the buffer and spring. New magpul mag .That might help the mystery rifle. Then retest. Lesson learned. Who knows what leftover parts might have been used.
 
223 and 5.56 cartridges are identical sizes. 5.56 CAN be loaded slightly hotter than 223, but the difference is minimal and just because it can be loaded hotter that doesn't mean all of it is. A 5.56 chamber is cut slightly different in order to be more reliable.

223 fired in 5.56 is fine. 5.56 fired in a 223 chamber might cause some reliability issues in semi-autos if you get some rounds that are actually loaded a little hotter than 223, but shouldn't be dangerous. 5.56 fired in a 223 bolt rifle should be just fine.

Normally the only issue with 5.56 in a 223 chamber is reliability in semi-auto's. But to my knowledge the only semi ever made with a 223 chamber are the very early Ruger Mini-14's. They quickly changed to 5.56 chambers and I've never seen an AR or any other semi-auto with a 223 chamber.

I seriously doubt the issue is 5.56 ammo in a 223 chamber.
 
mm93 said:
This is a common problem caused by people ignoring the warnings in instructions that state "do not shoot steel cased ammunition" in these AR's! Steel cases have a lacquer applied to the cases to stop them from rusting, and when fired the case gets hot and the lacquer builds up in the chamber until it starts sticking cases. The gun needs to have the chamber cleaned with a chamber brush and something hot like acetone. It may even take a chamber reamer to lightly clean the lacquer out if acetone and a chamber brush wont fix it.
Cases should come out with a quality cleaning rod, and a sharp blow with a mallet or hammer on the rod. If it doesn't, then use a heat shrink gun, or a woman's hair dryer on high to heat up the chamber area first and loosen the lacquer before trying a second hit with a cleaning rod.
Be sure not to get the acetone on any plastic parts, or it will melt them! I've fixed several of these AR's when guys ignored the warnings about steel cases.
Click to expand...
The problem with steel cases in 5.56 ARs isn't the steel case, or the lacquer or polymer coating on the steel case.

The problem is the chamber, specifically a barrel marked "5.56" that either has a .223 chamber or has an out of spec 5.56 chamber.

The nonconforming chamber dimensions causes carbon buildup in the chamber because, with the higher chamber pressure, the steel case doesn't expand quickly enough to seal against the chamber wall, allowing gas, soot & propellant residue to leak around the case. The carbon buildup further reduces the chamber's dimensions which causes steel cases to stick.

This is why some ARs have problems with steel cases while others don't.
 
Yeah, the steel case stuff has been a lot dirtier in all my rifles. One, usually it’s not loaded as hot as commercial US .223 or milsurp 5.56. Second, steel doesn’t expand out and seal the chamber as well upon firing as brass. The chamber does get a lot dirtier.

But there’s no evidence yet that a steel case is to blame here. Could be a defective extractor, the wrong extractor for the 5.56 in a home built rifle, etc. Though they get a bad rap, but I’ve found good AR’s less problematic than AK’s or FAL’s.
 
If you have a 3/16" spruce dowel, that can be better than a skinny metal cleaning rod for hammering a stuck case out.
You will want to split the AR, but pulling the pins out and removing the bolt & bolt carrier group first:


This may be as simple as there was a ton of gunk left in the chamber, and the case has just stuck to it. There are all kinds of "why" that might occur.
Hopefully, the case is not stuck because there was already a ruptured case in it (there might be a good reason it was in the pawn shop other than poverty of the previous owner).
Let's also hope that this is something simple, and not a real issue like the AR is actually a 300BO or 6.5 variant or some similar issue where the ammo loaded, and fired, but, it's not actually the right chamber.
 
Shawn Dodson said:
The problem with steel cases in 5.56 ARs isn't the steel case, or the lacquer or polymer coating on the steel case.

The problem is the chamber, specifically a barrel marked "5.56" that either has a .223 chamber or has an out of spec 5.56 chamber.

The nonconforming chamber dimensions causes carbon buildup in the chamber because, with the higher chamber pressure, the steel case doesn't expand quickly enough to seal against the chamber wall, allowing gas, soot & propellant residue to leak around the case. The carbon buildup further reduces the chamber's dimensions which causes steel cases to stick.

This is why some ARs have problems with steel cases while others don't.
Click to expand...

I'm going to have to disagree since every one that I've had come to me shot great once I cleaned the crud out of the chambers, and told owners to stick to brass and no steel. If they were bad enough to have to use my reamer I can see the varnish or lacquer on the reamers when I pulled the reamer out.
 
mm93 said:
I'm going to have to disagree since every one that I've had come to me shot great once I cleaned the crud out of the chambers, and told owners to stick to brass and no steel. If they were bad enough to have to use my reamer I can see the varnish or lacquer on the reamers when I pulled the reamer out.
Click to expand...
ARs will fire steel case 5.56 ammo with zero problems unless there's a chamber issue.

When steel case 5.56 sticks, it's an indicator of an out of spec chamber. The problem is with the gun, not the steel case ammo.

Whereas 5.56 brass case usually doesn't stick in a .223 or out of spec chamber. (Guns with an out of spec chamber exhibit other symptoms when firing brass case 5.56.)

The lacquer/varnish coating on steel cases doesn't melt. This has been proved with torches. The residue you observed was probably scraped off the cartridge by the carbon buildup.
 
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I am not much of an AR guy but if it were mine I would disassemble the upper from the lower, pull the bolt, and insert a 3/16" bronze rod into the barrel. It will go to the bottom of the empty case. Apply pressure with a hammer. It may take a few whacks to get the case to drop free. Then examine the case for any deep scratches although I doubt you will find any. Examine the extractor and if broken replace of course. Buy a chamber brush and using you carbon cleaner of choice clean the chamber. It might be a simple as just dropping the rod down the barrel.

Finding a long enough bronze rod may involve ordering one from McMaster-Carr or some other metal seller. It used to be as simple as walking into a welding supply and buying a brazing rod but 3/16" and 1/4" disappeared in my area many years ago. I would consider using a steel cold rolled or A/O welding rod with a bore guide though.
 
The most common problems I have seen are a weak or worn extractor or weak spring. Buy a new one from BMC or other reputable company. Maybe a new bolt. Another cause is an over gassed upper or too light a buffer l, causing the action to open too quickly. I like a heavier buffer like an H2. It also could be a dirty chamber or faulty ammo but hard to say. We are guessing without seeing it.
 
thunderbyrd said:
this query is a bit vague. i am hoping to get more info later, but here's what i've got for now. my friend bought an AR from a pawnshop, either 223 or 556. he took it out and shot it and the case of the 1st round hung up in the chamber and won't come out. he doesn't have a rod to tap it out and is going to try to bring it up to me this week.
i'm not too knowledgeable about this type of gun. what i want to know is this what happens when you mix 223 vs 556? i can't think of another reason this would happen.
Click to expand...
Tell the dipstick to buy a damn cleaning rod and try to tap it out. He's going to need a cleaning rod at some point.
 
a) Treat all firearms as if they arae loaded.
b) Muzzle control.
c) Finger off the trigger.

1) Remove magazine (if that's not already done).
2) Separate upper and lower.
3) Remove the bolt carrier and bolt (and operating handle)
4) Use a solid brass rod and drop it down the barrel. One whack with a mallet and the case should pop out.
 
The chamber was probably dry and dirty as all heck, stand the rifle upright, poor some diesel fluid down the barrel ( enough so it's more than a cartridge would hold) let it sit overnight then use a cleaning rod to whack it out
 
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