Protesters' Encounters With Delegates on the Town Turn Ugly

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Time honored tactics of the political left. All these lefties need are the brown shirts and then the image of the Nazi goon squads targeting opposing political party gatherings in Berlin circa 1930 would be complete.

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August 31, 2004
CONFRONTATIONS

By RANDAL C. ARCHIBOLD

utside a hotel in Times Square, delegates to the Republican National Convention were swarmed by protesters dressed in black and swearing at them. Blocks away, delegates engaged in shoving matches with protesters seeking to spoil their night at the theater. And outside "The Lion King" on 42nd Street, a delegate was punched by a protester who ran by.

Although the organized protests yesterday and Sunday have been largely peaceful, there has been a starkly different tone to smaller incidents in Midtown and elsewhere: angry encounters and planned harassment of convention delegates as they go out on the town.

Sometimes the delegates answer back in toe-to-toe, finger-pointing shouting matches. Other times the police, who are guarding delegate gatherings, have dispersed protesters, who move on to other locations to taunt other delegates.

The harassment of delegates came as organized protests continued to draw thousands of people. The Still We Rise march by advocates for social issues was peaceful, and a Poor People's March, a column several blocks long, proceeded from the United Nations to the Madison Square Garden yesterday after the police decided to let it go ahead without a permit.

When marchers approached the Garden, a police detective was knocked off his scooter. He was then repeatedly kicked and punched in the head by at least one male demonstrator, the police said.

The detective, William Sample, was listed in serious condition at St. Vincent's Manhattan Hospital, where Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg and Police Commissioner Raymond W. Kelly both visited him, the police said. There was no immediate word of an arrest in the assault, but as of 9 p.m., the police said there had been 11 protest-related arrests.

The heavy police presence at the Garden apparently inspired the coordinated plan by anarchists and other radicals to strike out at the delegates at their hotels, breakfasts, parties, and on the streets.

The incidents are the result of months of planning by opposition groups, who report that they have obtained copies of plans and addresses for delegates' parties, caucuses and other gatherings outside the Garden.

Their efforts are aided by a support network that uses cellphone text messaging. Text message was also used extensively in a bike protest on Friday night and during demonstrations in Times Square on Sunday.

"CT delegation breakfast everyday @ Maison (7th ave & 53rd) from 7-8:30. Can we get some dissenters?" said one text message yesterday, apparently referring to the Connecticut delegation's plan to gather at a Midtown restaurant. "Maison has outdoor buffet. It would be direct contact with delegates."

One Internet discussion list used by protesters posted an advisory about where some delegate buses would be idling in Midtown every morning. Another message included phone numbers and e-mail addresses for convention officials and advised that delegate hotels would be busiest in the morning and evening.

The police are bracing for another round of unsanctioned demonstrations today, which protesters have designated a day of "nonviolent civil disobedience and direct action." Among the parties expected to be a target is the Tennessee delegation's gathering at Sotheby's. A group calling itself the Man in Black Bloc plans to protest it, saying it is angered that the convention intends to honor the late country singer Johnny Cash.

Yesterday, Jamie Moran, who lives in Brooklyn and describes himself as an anarchist and helps direct the rncnotwelcome.org Web site, was roaming Times Square with a band of protesters shouting at delegates. "These people are in a bubble," he said. "This is absolutely better than standing outside the Garden and shouting to let them know they are not welcome here."

As delegate buses arrived at the Garden yesterday afternoon, protesters who had gathered for a demonstration screamed obscenities and gestured rudely at them. When the police spotted Pete Coors, a Republican candidate for Senate from Colorado, walking near the group, they swiftly steered him away.

Clearly, the protesters were not deterred by entreaties by former Mayor Edward I. Koch that New Yorkers be nice and an offer by Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg to give peaceful protesters buttons and shopping discounts.

Adam Chase, 23, who said he came from Michigan for the protests, said that while he believed demonstrators should not be violent, "I think it is quite unfair for the R.N.C. and the delegates to tell us we should not be telling them we think they are exploiting the fears of the people."

Mindful that delegates are targets, police officers guard their hotels and ride aboard their chartered buses around town, and several receive police escorts to various events.

"New York City is a fortress, and I love it," Joseph Kyrillos, the New Jersey state Republican chairman, said yesterday at a delegate breakfast. "We need to thank the New York police for all the protection."

Leonardo Alcivar, a spokesman for the convention, said officials recommended that delegates not respond to heckling and taunts, which he said have been "few and far between."

Still, he said, "Our delegates understand the old adage, do unto others as they do unto you."

The tensest encounters between delegates and protesters so far occurred Sunday evening when large groups of demonstrators moved through the theater district while delegates were attending shows under arrangements prepared by convention planners. Several protesters were arrested for trying to block hotel and theater entrances, and face-to-face standoffs abounded.

Outside "Bombay Dreams" demonstrators shouted at and videotaped people standing outside for intermission.

At "Aida," a group of protesters unfurled a banner and hurled invective at delegates leaving the show. Some looked nervous, but a few shouted back, "You're sick, sick."

Delegates lined up to see "Phantom of the Opera" ended up in a sing-song, tit-for-tat with protesters. One protester shouted, "The phantom dies at the end."

Flora Rohrs, a delegate from Colorado, burst into song, "This is my country," with bits of "God Bless America" thrown in. She said, "What is going on here is we are still going to get George Bush re-elected."

For some, there was no escape even at dinner.

"A person came by and used an explicative and stuck his finger in our face," said Deb Etcheson, an alternate delegate from Iowa. "But I don't blame that on New Yorkers. I just love this city."

Some delegates seemed perplexed, even hurt, not because they did not expect protesters to be here, but because they did not expect them to get personal. "They were using foul language, getting real ugly," said Kim Kirkwood, a delegate from Amarillo, Tex. Her husband, Jim, said he could not understand it. "I have friends who are Democrats in Texas, and we talk about things, agree to disagree."

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/31/p...partner=ALTAVISTA1&pagewanted=print&position=
 
typical Yankees (sorry)

Some delegates seemed perplexed, even hurt, not because they did not expect protesters to be here, but because they did not expect them to get personal. "They were using foul language, getting real ugly," said Kim Kirkwood, a delegate from Amarillo, Tex. Her husband, Jim, said he could not understand it. "I have friends who are Democrats in Texas, and we talk about things, agree to disagree."

One thing I am s-o-o-o proud of my father for was moving us out of that cesspool known as the Northeast/NYC to the sunny skies of Texas (aka America). Out there,

As much as elitist northeasterners run their pieholes about "violent & rude southerners," I've encountered way more jerks in NYC/the northeast than in the south.

20 years later, I've never looked back. The closest I will come to living in a NYC-type environment is Maryland.
 
As much as elitist northeasterners run their pieholes about "violent & rude southerners," I've encountered way more jerks in NYC/the northeast than in the south.


A while back a University Psychology Dept. did a study on rudeness where they had student actors act as rudely as possible towards other, unwitting students.

They did things like shove or elbow the other student as they walked by in a crowded hallway setup, cut into lines, mouth off to the other student, that sort of thing.

They found that the unwitting students from the Northeast and New England would tolerate far more abuse and rudeness than the Southerners. In fact they found many of the Southerners came close to responding violently to being treated in this way.

I'm guessing these delegates who are shocked by the protesters are from the Midwest or South.

Midwesterners would be shocked at the protesters because folks in thier part of the US are generally nice and well behaved.

Southerners would be shocked at the protesters antics because it would be suicidal for anyone to act that way in most of the South.

I'd like to see one of these protesters randomly run up to someone on the street in Texas and punch them in the face, as one did to a Delegate in N.Y.C.

It's all a great argument for N.Y and N.Y.C. to allow concealed carry.
 
How can the party of tolerance and diversity exercise its 1st Amendment right to free speech unless it attacks those with whom it disagrees? :rolleyes:
 
That's the last bastion of liberalism... once every one of your arguments has been soundly trounced, you have two options... admit you're wrong and change your worldview; or put on your blinders, scream louder, and violently attack anyone who doesn't think in lockstep with you. If enough of them get to screaming and attacking, they figure people will come over to "their side" out of fear, if nothing else.

If I were a delegate, I'd fill my pockets with little pepper sprays. :D
 
I'd like to see one of these protesters randomly run up to someone on the street in Texas and punch them in the face, as one did to a Delegate in N.Y.C.

I could only wish!
:p
 
Yep all NYers are rude as evidenced by the protests (my god, didnt know ALL of the protesters were from NY), and of course its OK to shoot someone who punches ya in the face,..

Yep, thats what I like about this Board compared to DU and the other leftie places, we dont stereotype here or advocate lawbreaking.

WildhowrefreshingAlaska
 
experience is experience

Yep all NYers are rude as evidenced by the protests (my god, didnt know ALL of the protesters were from NY),

I saw on the news that "New Yorkers" were loudly complaining about "those people" coming to "our" town, and promising to give "them" a harsh welcome.

Living in NYC for a while after living in TX (when we moved back shortly in the late '80's), I can speak from experience about rudeness.

This is the ladies' point I would like to highlight:
"I have friends who are Democrats in Texas, and we talk about things, agree to disagree."

Being a Democrat who lived in the South and was surrounded by Republicans, and who has Republican friends, I have never seen nor experienced anyone screaming and shoving each other over political disagreements (even on college campuses).

Plus, my (low) expectations are always met during the few return visits I have made since living on my own away from NYC during the last 15 years.

Yesterday, Jamie Moran, who lives in Brooklyn and describes himself as an anarchist and helps direct the rncnotwelcome.org Web site, was roaming Times Square with a band of protesters shouting at delegates. "These people are in a bubble," he said. "This is absolutely better than standing outside the Garden and shouting to let them know they are not welcome here."
 
This article pisses me off on so many levels. Has the younger generation gotten so stupid that they protest just for the sake of protesting? The people who know what the hell they're talking about would not protest a group just for being in their city. I thought that political protest was about getting a message across. These people are just being jerks out of spite.


... delegates to the Republican National Convention were swarmed by protesters dressed in black and swearing at them. Blocks away, delegates engaged in shoving matches with protesters seeking to spoil their night at the theater. And outside "The Lion King" on 42nd Street, a delegate was punched by a protester who ran by.


planned harassment of convention delegates as they go out on the town.

He was then repeatedly kicked and punched in the head by at least one male demonstrator, the police said.

The heavy police presence at the Garden apparently inspired the coordinated plan by anarchists and other radicals to strike out at the delegates at their hotels, breakfasts, parties, and on the streets.

...And these people think that helps their cause. And the behavior described seems to amount to stalking. Getting schedules, finding out where specific people are going at night? What the hell is that?!

But I'm also pissed off on principle at the police for devoting what must be a sizeable chunk of their resources to this convention and leaving a lot of the city defenseless. Especially since they're not likely to make armed self-defense easier for the delegates or the rest of the city any time soon.

I guess if you take a big step back, the whole situation must look absurd. People gather in a city to (probably peacefully) do whatever it is they do at political conventions. The city is populated largely by people who disagree with them, and although many of these people make their point reasonably and peacefully, a lot of them just want to ruin the trip. You can identify these people because their best and only argument against George Bush is that he's stupid. Then the city, rather than adopting a sensible approach to self-defense, hands the whole damn police force over to the convention!

God, 2 weeks away from being 16 and I can already see where this country is headed...
 
and of course its OK to shoot someone who punches ya in the face,..

It most certainly is if you can make a disparity of force case for it. If a 20 year old thug was punching my 75 year old father in the face, you can bet he would be justified in shooting the SOB if he could not safely retreat.
 
Last night the news reported that 80% of the protesters were NYC residents with only 20% coming from surrounding areas.


I'm not trying to be a smarta$$ or anything but seriously were there any
incidents of Republican protesters hurting anyone or disrupting the Democrat convention?
 
How can the party of tolerance and diversity exercise its 1st Amendment right to free speech unless it attacks those with whom it disagrees?

By disarming those with whom it disagrees, then silencing them, then forcing them to pay for its perverse vision of tolerance and diversity.
 
WildALittleTooAnxiousToProveAPointAlaska wrote:
of course its OK to shoot someone who punches ya in the face,..

Aside from a link in someone's sig, yours was the first post in the thread to include the word 'shoot'.
 
I don't know why anyone is surprised about the violence. The Democrats do this stuff all the time. Does the democratic convention of 1968 ring a bell? And it was their own convention.
 
Honestly, I think too many people got way too much from Fight Club. It might sound weird but I think that a certain kind of person who sees it just gets something clicking in their head saying "Hey, that anarchy stuff looks like fun!" and then they go nuts, as seen here. I know several people who saw the movie, started dressing in black, and downloading the Anarchist Cookbook.

...I sound like a paranoid old man. :uhoh:
 
need more news on the activities?

if you want to get some first hand reports of the goings on up in NYC you need to visit this site:

http://www.protestwarrior.com/

Its a gaggle of Libertarians, Republicans, Conservatives and Constitution Party people who go around and "protest the protestors". They have done this a couple of times and have some great HUGE video clips that you can download. I think you need to register to view the forums but the rest of the site is open to all. Its a good site, little rough around the edges and the language, but its only about 2 years old so not everything has fleshed out and settled down yet.
 
WildhowrefreshingAlaska:

Yep all NYers are rude as evidenced by the protests (my god, didnt know ALL of the protesters were from NY), and of course its OK to shoot someone who punches ya in the face,..

Yep, thats what I like about this Board compared to DU and the other leftie places, we dont stereotype here or advocate lawbreaking.


Nobody said that ALL New Yorkers are like the demonstrators, or even rude, just that rude behavior is more common in N.Y, N.Y.C., and The Northeast in General, than in some other parts of the country.

and of course its OK to shoot someone who punches ya in the face,..

Well, yes it is O.K. to use a firearm in self defense.

For example:

For a while here in D.C., there was a sort of sport where a small number of young black men would see if they could randomly walk up to a complete stranger on the street and punch the victim in the face hard enough to knock them out cold. Then the assailant would urinate on the victim while his homies taped it.

I recall at least one death resulting from the assaults.
 
And the Democrats wonder why that we've had only two Democrat presidents since 1968?!
America has no quarrel with liberalism. It is the liberal fanatics that Americans have a problem with.
I fail to see the difference between Nazi Germany's stifling of peaceful
dissent and the liberal fanatics' stifling of peaceful dissent.
These "protesters" should be punished for assault and other crimes.
A political crime does not involve violence. And just because a violent act
does not involve a gun, does not make it any less serious than a gun crime.
 
I was hopin' for more vigorous, enthusiastic protests. But I guess vegans don't have a lot of energy. :p
 
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