PRS/NRL22 rifle

[rdnktrkr]

After shooting the PRS22 match last weekend I've been looking at purchasing a rifle, and I have LOTS of questions..

Price spread is tremendous..$200 to $3000, I'm retired so the $3000 rifles are out. What about these lower cost options?
1; Howa 1100, I own several Howa 1500s 2 30-06s and a 6.5cm in a MDT Oryx chassis, they run smooth and are accurate
2; Ruger; American or RPR22? they both run a little more than the Howa but Ruger has a quality product
3; Savage MKII FV, FVSR or BTV; I own several Savage Axis rifles and a 110 wood stocked 30-06 and they all are good shooters.
Those are the ones I've found that I liked that are in the lower end of the price range, there are others I like that are hitting the border of more than I want to spend, Should I save more money and buy a CZ, Tikka, Bergara etc. up front to save being frustrated later?

looking around I've noticed there is a spread from 16-24in barrels, my thoughts are
1: The 24" barrel would be harder to move in and out of obstacles 2; Are the longer barrels more accurate? Where is the middle ground? Accuracy verses ease of movement?

 

[12Bravo20]

How serious are you wanting to be with shooting NRL22?

Are you wanting to keep prices down as much as possible?

With that being said it is hard to beat a Savage if you are not wanting to seriously compete with the big dogs. You can save on the rifle and put the money towards a good scope. Now if you are wanting to compete with the big dogs then step up to the Tikka or Bergara or even a custom build.

No matter what rifle you go with, make sure to get a good stock that fits you well. Chassis stocks are very popular and easily customized to fit the individual shooter. So go with a stock that is adjustable for comb height and length of pull.

 

[Varminterror]

Save money for a better rifle, otherwise yes, you'll be frustrated almost immediately.

After speaking with the match directors and range owners which host NRL22 & PRS Rimfire matches around here (including the folks which run the largest NRL22 club in the country), and others around the country (including some of the regional and national series directors), as well as some of the top level NRL22 shooters in the country, there is NEVER any wavering on the demarcation between these 4 classes of rifles:

1) Annie, Vudoo, RimX
2) CZ, Bergara, Tikka
3) Ruger RPR, Marlin bolt guns, Savage MkII
4) Everything else

I shoot a Savage MkII because I owned one already before I started into this, but my next competition rifle will be a RimX after I finish up my Heavy ELR rifle, and my wife's PRS rifle (and maybe converting my own PRS rifle over to Impact/Foundation). I give up points because of the shape and layout of the rifle, and the overall performance. The CZ's are the most affordable option in the "non-elite, but better" tier of rifles, so a LOT of folks shoot them, and they tend to kick ass for the right shooters. Dudes who really want to excel are investing a few times more money into the razor edge of diminishing performance returns, because it takes that to stand at the top of the heap at the end of the season.

So I'd buy the CZ from that list, unless you can really swing up to a RimX or Bergara.

Longer barrels are not more accurate - and frankly, are theoretically LESS accurate. But... Longer barrels make it easier to create proper balance in the rifle. A lot of guys are running 16" or 18" barrels, but most of them are running chassis' with all of the internal and external weights near the forend, to get the rifles to balance forward of center on their barricade bags where they need to be. This is a HUGE detriment in the Savage design (and the RPR isn't much better - it's just easier to add forward weight to a Ruger) - my rifle is WAY farther back than most other shooters on the bag because of the longer action footprint and magazine design, and that hurts balance terribly. 24" won't be difficult to move around obstacles, I move around PRS stages with a 26" barrel and a 8" suppressor all season long. A 24" barrel would be more to move than a 16" barrel, but I wouldn't get a 16" if I didn't KNOW I could make it balance properly. The Tikka, CZ, and 700 clones don't have such a long footprint for the balance point (they CAN require a heavier overall rifle to promote balance, however).

ETA: If you already OWN a 22LR, add an arca rail, add an angle base and an FFP scope, and go shoot matches. But if you're buying, at least spend at that #2 tier to avoid frustration.

 

[d2wing]

I would start with a CZ varmint as best bang for the buck with potential to improve. There is a reason that they are the most popular in that class of rifle. They have a strong aftermarket and barrels are easy to change. Tikka is also a good starting point. Savage or Ruger is a good starter but I would skip over it. Varminterror covered it very well.

 

[12Bravo20]

And if you do decide on getting a Savage, I will highly recommend getting one their medium contour varmint barrels. The varmint barrels have always shot way better for me versus a thinner sporter barrel.

As much as I love my Savage rifles, I will still recommend stepping up to a better rifle if you want to get serious about shooting NRL22.

 

[Walkalong]

1) Annie, Vudoo, RimX
2) CZ, Bergara, Tikka
3) Ruger RPR, Marlin bolt guns, Savage MkII
4) Everything else

So I'd buy the CZ from that list, unless you can really swing up to a RimX or Bergara.

Longer barrels make it easier to create proper balance in the rifle. A lot of guys are running 16" or 18" barrels, but most of them are running chassis' with all of the internal and external weights near the forend, to get the rifles to balance forward of center on their barricade bags where they need to be. This is a HUGE detriment in the Savage design (and the RPR isn't much better - it's just easier to add forward weight to a Ruger)

All excellent points.

Jeff placed 7th with a Bergara, and dropped points that weren't the rifles fault. It will do 95+% of what the Vudoo will accuracy wise, is a Rem 700 footprint so you can upgrade stocks some day, buy the best trigger money can buy someday.....that's why Bergara/Vudoo/RimX etc do the Rem 700 footprint.

That BixNAndy trigger was sweet wasn't it. Rem 700 compatible.

Rifle balance is more important than barrel length.

As I posted in the other thread, if your never going to want to add to it (non Rem 700 footprint), the CZ Varmint At One is a lot of bang for the buck and won't hold you back. All you'll need to do is find ammo it likes and work on you.

 

[Varminterror]

The varmint barrels have always shot way better for me versus a thinner sporter barrel.

Definitely this, for any of them really, but especially the Savage. My son has a standard contour Savage Mark II FVSS, I’m pretty sure I could bend that barrel into a circle by hand… the Savage receivers are small dia, so tapering down makes for a SUPER fine barrel contour.

 

[12Bravo20]

My 22LR Savage MkII BTVLSS and 17m2 MkII GVL both have the 21" varmint barrel. I have yet to try different ammo at long distances to see what the BTVLSS shoots best. So far it shoots CCI Mini Mags the best out to 100 yards.

Here is a 5 shot group from my BTVLSS at 50 yards shooting CCI Mini Mags.

 

[mcb]

I am just a relative novice NRL 22 shooter. I took what I had to my first NRL22 match. I took an old 10/22 with an aftermarket 20-inch bull barrel and a Tasco 3-9x32 duplex reticle scope to my first NRL 22 match. And placed second in Open (that after market barrel bumped me to that). Knowing I did not have a FFP scope or even a BDC reticule, but having all the stage descriptions ahead of time I did an inordinate amount of pre-match prep at the range and in Strelok ( RIP) and was blessed with a match with nearly zero wind. My second place finish got me a nice discount on a Athlon scope from the sponsoring FLGS so I upgraded. I have finished a lot worst since but the FFP scope with a decent reticule has reduced the pre-match work load and when the wind gods decide to play nice I still finish strong.

JMHO given my limited experience but I think the scope and then quality ammo is probably more important than the rifle, assuming the rifle is not hot garbage and you NRL22 club is not shooting the greater than 100 yard version of the stages.

My 10/22 with the Athlon scope. An old butler creek stock I have weighted and free floated the forearm. The bipod is probably worth at much as the rest of the rig...

-rambling

 

[rdnktrkr]

Since the Howa wasn't mentioned it is a no-go I was hoping someone would give it an honorable mention, I will look into the CZ, I found a varmint locally but retail is pushing my price range, taking scope money, I'm figuring $1500 total with all the accessories This is a bad time of year for us, recovering from tax season and we always do a family vacation, this year a 5 bedroom in Orlando for a week+ and taking the kids to something for the day while there, probably $12-1500, then my wife & I are going to do a few days in Daytona. Maybe I can look into one around August or September when finances are back in line (my wife has her magic figure that she wants in checking and I better not get below that figure) or wait till early next year and add to my figure.

 

[12Bravo20]

You won't go wrong with a CZ.

One of the main reasons that I stick with Savage rifles is the simple fact that they are easier to find in left hand versions versus other brands. CZ just recently brought back one of their 22 rifle in a left hand version, it was out of production for a few years.

 

[Varminterror]

The fact the Howa didn't make that top performer list isn't really saying a rifle is a bad rifle - you don't see Ruger 10/22's up there or Marlin 60's either. It's just recognition of performance standards and adaptability of the designs to deliver within the context of competition. You don't see biathlon rifles on that list, or Win 52's, don't see 39A's, etc... Not because they're bad rifles, just because they don't do what's needed.

$1500 is a great number to get into a decent rifle and optic, probably with room to get a rail and mount too, especially looking at options for Production Class.

 

[Spats McGee]

Dang it, y’all have me wanting a new rifle, too!

 

[Walkalong]

you NRL22 club is not shooting the greater than 100 yard version of the stages.

Altus does the 5 NRL-22 stages for the month, and 5 more where they stretch it out. We did 333 yards once, but usually it’s under 300.

Wade at West GA does the 5 NRL-22 stages, and adds a couple longer ones.

The match last weekend at West GA was PRS-22 and had a lot over 100 yards with lots of movement.

 

[mcb]

Altus does the 5 NRL-22 stages for the month, and 5 more where they stretch it out. We did 333 yards once, but usually it’s under 300.

Wade at West GA does the 5 NRL-22 stages, and adds a couple longer ones.

The match last weekend at West GA was PRS-22 and had a lot over 100 yards with lots of movement.

Yeah the club I shoot with usually will stretch a few stages out to 200-250 yards. But when I first started shooting NRL22 all official published stages were limited to 100 yards. They have since changed and the official stages now have the 100 or less version and sometime the same stage but at ranges greater than 100 yards. I believe NRL22 started with the 100 yard limit to make it accessible to more ranges and they try to maintain that but many clubs wanted to go longer and they have evolved to let that too.

 

[Walkalong]

100 yards is simply easier, and if you’re steady you can shoot a good score, and everyone likes that. Folks shoot bad and they tend to stop, plus it’s intended to help get kids into shooting, so real hard isn’t a great idea.

It it’s real windy it’s more of a challenge of course, but still much easier than 200 and in, and a lot easier than 300 and in.

 

[rdnktrkr]

Thank everyone for their replies, I'm still in the learning phase with all this
Looking around I have a couple of more questions,
1; What is the difference between the Savage B22FV and the MK II FV? there is a price difference of about $40.These Savages run a little bit lower than the others I'm looking at
1a; Is there a preference for stainless steel? about $50 more.
1b; I just saw a Savage B22 precision, This really pushes my limit but doable, (my limit plus tax, shipping and transfer fees) Is this worth $75 more than the RPR?
2; What about the CZ 457 American? It is doable vs the varmint or precision but pushes the limit
3; Ruger American vs the RPR? The American is about $100 cheaper & has a longer barrel
All these are less than or around $500 from online dealers, I will find the best price then see how close my LGS will come, I have found in the past that they appreciate this before just sending in a firearm and sometimes get close to the online price.

 

[12Bravo20]

Thank everyone for their replies, I'm still in the learning phase with all this
Looking around I have a couple of more questions,
1; What is the difference between the Savage B22FV and the MK II FV? there is a price difference of about $40.These Savages run a little bit lower than the others I'm looking at
1a; Is there a preference for stainless steel? about $50 more.
1b; I just saw a Savage B22 precision, This really pushes my limit but doable, (my limit plus tax, shipping and transfer fees) Is this worth $75 more than the RPR?
2; What about the CZ 457 American? It is doable vs the varmint or precision but pushes the limit
3; Ruger American vs the RPR? The American is about $100 cheaper & has a longer barrel
All these are less than or around $500 from online dealers, I will find the best price then see how close my LGS will come, I have found in the past that they appreciate this before just sending in a firearm and sometimes get close to the online price.

To answer your questions about Savage rifles:

• The B Series uses a rotary magazine that is similar to, but not compatible with, the Ruger 10/22 rotary magazine
• The MkII uses a standard single stack box magazine.
• I have seen the argument of stainless steel vs carbon steel go both ways on which one is better. I have a MkII GVL that is carbon steel and a MkII BTVLSS that is stainless steel. I can't tell much difference between the two.

I know that some have had feeding issues with the early Savage rotary magazines and I don't know if Savage has fixed those issues yet.

There are a few different chassis stocks available for the Savage MkII that can range from as cheap as $180 and up to $500. And chassis stocks may or may not come with a stock depending on the brand/model.

 

[rdnktrkr]

Would buying a Savage MK II FV and installing it in a chassis make it an open class instead of production class? It would be about the same price as the RPR with a longer barrel.

 

[johnmcl]

About a year ago, a Ruger Precision Rifle joined the herd at a fire sale price. It spent the winter in the weapons locker, coming out about a month ago. Cabela's helped on the optics selection by putting a Vortex Diamondback Tactical FFP on sale. 6x-24x, as I remember. Then a shortie Harris bipod went on.

Well, the end result is a 2 MOA gun at 100m. Even more important, the gun is a ton of fun to shoot. I can see myself burning through a bunch of ammo this summer wearing a huge smile.

 

[rdnktrkr]

The match we shot last weekend at West GA Precision has a NRL match every month and an extra match, PRS, in August, looks like they are busy with the matches and keeping the shooters busy. I noticed there were a lot more "open" class rifles there than "production" class (about 20 Open rifles, 5 production and 4 seniors), I'm thinking starting out I would like to stay in the production class. The RPR and CZ457 American uses about 1/2 of available dollars and the savage MKII about 1/4, I was planning on spending around $500 on a scope which would probably be around $750-800 retail , to much for the RPR or CZ but under for the Savage, everything I've heard is "quality of glass makes a difference", so now I have other things to keep in mind.
I'm going to check some LGSs this weekend and see what they have and compare to what I've found online.

 

[Varminterror]

Would buying a Savage MK II FV and installing it in a chassis make it an open class instead of production class?

Yes, replacing the stock, trigger, or barrel bumps a Production rifle into Open.

 

[Walkalong]

If you’re patient, you can catch nice scopes on sale for 40/50% off. The scope on the gun you shot was purchased at 50% off.

Sooner or later Arken will have an excellent sale on their scopes, I see some of those at matches, they are definite contenders in their price range, on sale they’re a very good bang for the buck

 

[Varminterror]

But recall, MSRP, not even retail pricing, is what is used to determine qualification for Production/Base class.

It’s even a good idea to print off a date stamped image with then-current MSRP listed when a Base/Production class product is purchased, in case listed MSRP’s increase in the future, which might disqualify your components.

 

[rdnktrkr]

Saying that, would I be better buying the Savage MKII and then being able to get a $900 retail scope or the $620 RPR and a $580 retail scope?